I don't think we're giving the Knicks enough credit/respect

[Rondo2287]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Ya, I agree.  But there were two times last game where the starters stretched the lead to double digits and the the bench let down and let the knicks back into it.  I feel like things are coming together a bit and we see some flashes of playoff dominance we just need to finishing putting it together and do it quickly!

[Assassin70]

The Knicks will play hard they might win a game or 2. 

That's all the credit/respect they get from me.

[EJPLAYA]

At full strength they are a very solid team. One we shouldn't have wanted to play. With Billups and Amare hurt we should have crushed them in game 2 no matter whether Carmelo went off or not. Although I do feel that they are better than most are giving credit, we should walk right through them. We can't afford to get outrebounded like that and so the BBD/Green play needs to end. Tell the trio of BBD, Green, and Kristic that whoever shows up to rebound and play aggressive D will get minutes, and those that don't will be sitting next to coach. A little challenge about now to their manhood is due.

[hpantazo]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I honestly don't see the Heat as being that much better than the post Melo trade Knicks talent wise. If anything, they have slightly more talent. The major problem was that they played zero defense, but that has improved significantly so far in the playoffs to my surprise. If I was Stern and wanted to fix the playoffs to get great ratings, I would love to have a Knicks-Heat 2nd round matchup.

[dtrader]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I honestly don't see the Heat as being that much better than the post Melo trade Knicks talent wise. If anything, they have slightly more talent. The major problem was that they played zero defense, but that has improved significantly so far in the playoffs to my surprise. If I was Stern and wanted to fix the playoffs to get great ratings, I would love to have a Knicks-Heat 2nd round matchup.

Nah, cuz then if by some miracle the knicks won there would be an increased chance of a knicks finals appearance which wouldn't compare to what miami, boston, and to a lesser extent chicago could draw. 

I think Miami is a lot better than NY talent wise if you look at the teams top to bottom. The knicks bench doesnt really offer much, but house, miller, jones, and Chalmers can all change the game for the Heat.

[Jon]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I don't know.  I was disappointed with their play in the first game.  However, last game really reminded me of '10 Miami's one win against us last year when Wade was throwing up long distance, well-guarded, quite frankly, terrible, shots and hitting them.  Pierce guarded Melo well; Melo just hit a ton of tough shots that he won't hit every game. 

In fact, I think if we were to replay that game 25 times with the exact same shot selection by both teams, I think that the Celtics would win the majority of those games in blow out fashion. 

The real test will be next game.  Can they step it up and take NY by the throat on the road. 

Also, if Shaq can return before the end of the series, it will make an enormous impact on this team.  Right now it's night and day out there when Jermaine's in and when Jermaine's out.  When he's in there, NY has trouble getting to the hoop and has to settle for outside shots.  When he's not, they get to the basket practically at will.  If Shaq had been starting these games and JO had been coming in to anchor the defense of the 2nd unit (and thus avoiding the midget lineup of Green and Baby upfront), I think the C's would've never been down in Game 1 and that they would've won in blowout form Game 2. 

[hpantazo]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I honestly don't see the Heat as being that much better than the post Melo trade Knicks talent wise. If anything, they have slightly more talent. The major problem was that they played zero defense, but that has improved significantly so far in the playoffs to my surprise. If I was Stern and wanted to fix the playoffs to get great ratings, I would love to have a Knicks-Heat 2nd round matchup.

Nah, cuz then if by some miracle the knicks won there would be an increased chance of a knicks finals appearance which wouldn't compare to what miami, boston, and to a lesser extent chicago could draw.  

I think Miami is a lot better than NY talent wise if you look at the teams top to bottom. The knicks bench doesnt really offer much, but house, miller, jones, and Chalmers can all change the game for the Heat.

You don't think NY has a bigger market than boston or miami? really? Also, I would take Fields, Douglas, and Walker over a washed up house, broken down miller, and chalmers, but that's just my opinion.Neither team has a good bench, but you can argue that the celtics don't either since our bench has been outplayed by NY so far. The difference between miami and NY imo during the regular season had been defense, but NY is now playing some defense.

[Who]

Apparently I'm in the vast minority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.

Agreed -- Knicks are a slightly above average team. They pale in comparison to the Celtics who are an excellent squad and a legitimate title contender.

And the team the Knicks had on the floor the other night in the second half but absolutely atrocious. They would struggle to win 20 games. Abysmal.

[dtrader]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I honestly don't see the Heat as being that much better than the post Melo trade Knicks talent wise. If anything, they have slightly more talent. The major problem was that they played zero defense, but that has improved significantly so far in the playoffs to my surprise. If I was Stern and wanted to fix the playoffs to get great ratings, I would love to have a Knicks-Heat 2nd round matchup.

Nah, cuz then if by some miracle the knicks won there would be an increased chance of a knicks finals appearance which wouldn't compare to what miami, boston, and to a lesser extent chicago could draw.  

I think Miami is a lot better than NY talent wise if you look at the teams top to bottom. The knicks bench doesnt really offer much, but house, miller, jones, and Chalmers can all change the game for the Heat.

You don't think NY has a bigger market than boston or miami? really? Also, I would take Fields, Douglas, and Walker over a washed up house, broken down miller, and chalmers, but that's just my opinion.Neither team has a good bench, but you can argue that the celtics don't either since our bench has been outplayed by NY so far. The difference between miami and NY imo during the regular season had been defense, but NY is now playing some defense.

I'm not talking about market size. Just who would be the bigger finals draw. I think Boston or Miami in the finals would draw more viewers than the knicks. 

As for the benches, I counted Douglass as a starter since chaunceys out..otherwise I guess I might give the knicks the advantage.  It's tough to say house is washed up though after he dropped 35 last week.

[Mr October]

Apparently I'm in the vast minority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.

Agreed -- Knicks are a slightly above average team. They pale in comparison to the Celtics who are an excellent squad and a legitimate title contender.

And the team the Knicks had on the floor the other night in the second half but absolutely atrocious. They would struggle to win 20 games. Abysmal.

I think the Knicks are good enough to give any of the top teams trouble for most of a series. That doesn't mean i think they can win the series against a Boston/Miami/Chicago. But they are certainly good enough to keep it close.

I don't think Carmelo would ever be on a 20 win team. The dude is just that good. He's a team carrier like Lebron, Wade, Kobe, etc. A super like that plus 4 scrappy players equals at least 35 wins.

[LarBrd33]

The Knicks are a homeless man's Heat.  That team is garbage.  Denver got a lot better post-trade while the Knicks got a lot worse.  The fact that we are barely beating them is disturbing.  We almost lost the last game to Melo by himself.  I still think the Knicks could take this series with the way things have been going.  We should be destroying a lowly team like this... and the concern is that if we are struggling this much against this crap team... the Heat will completely eat us alive in the next round.

HOwever, last year Dwayne Wade won a game against us by himself and we eventually made the finals... which can either be interpreted as a good sign (one superstar can give you trouble, but the better team will prevail) or a bad sign (if we lost a game to Wade by himself... what happens when it's Wade, Bron and Bosh in the next round)

Really you can't read too much into early playoff struggles... the Lakers dropped game 1 and are probably going to win the title

[Tai]

The Knicks are a homeless man's Heat.  That team is garbage.  Denver got a lot better post-trade while the Knicks got a lot worse.  The fact that we are barely beating them is disturbing.  We almost lost the last game to Melo by himself.  I still think the Knicks could take this series with the way things have been going.  We should be destroying a lowly team like this... and the concern is that if we are struggling this much against this crap team... the Heat will completely eat us alive in the next round.

HOwever, last year Dwayne Wade won a game against us by himself and we eventually made the finals... which can either be interpreted as a good sign (one superstar can give you trouble, but the better team will prevail) or a bad sign (if we lost a game to Wade by himself... what happens when it's Wade, Bron and Bosh in the next round)

Really you can't read too much into early playoff struggles... the Lakers dropped game 1 and are probably going to win the title

So just curious, I assume you feel the same way about the Bulls barely beating the Pacers in Games 1 and 2? I mean, if the Knicks, a 6th seed, are a "lowly" team, I can only assume the Pacers are flat out trash, but the Pacers have been right there with the Bulls in the final minutes of the game.

[GreenEnvy]

The Knicks are a homeless man's Heat.  That team is garbage.  Denver got a lot better post-trade while the Knicks got a lot worse.  The fact that we are barely beating them is disturbing.  We almost lost the last game to Melo by himself.  I still think the Knicks could take this series with the way things have been going.  We should be destroying a lowly team like this... and the concern is that if we are struggling this much against this crap team... the Heat will completely eat us alive in the next round.

HOwever, last year Dwayne Wade won a game against us by himself and we eventually made the finals... which can either be interpreted as a good sign (one superstar can give you trouble, but the better team will prevail) or a bad sign (if we lost a game to Wade by himself... what happens when it's Wade, Bron and Bosh in the next round)

Really you can't read too much into early playoff struggles... the Lakers dropped game 1 and are probably going to win the title

So just curious, I assume you feel the same way about the Bulls barely beating the Pacers in Games 1 and 2? I mean, if the Knicks, a 6th seed, are a "lowly" team, I can only assume the Pacers are flat out trash, but the Pacers have been right there with the Bulls in the final minutes of the game.

But they have the MVP!

If anything, we proved we can beat you with just about everyone (besides the bench). Rondo, Pierce, KG, Ray, even JO have altered the two games at separate times.

Stop Rose, and they are in trouble. I know it's no easy task, but certainly doable.

[LarBrd33]

The Knicks are a homeless man's Heat.  That team is garbage.  Denver got a lot better post-trade while the Knicks got a lot worse.  The fact that we are barely beating them is disturbing.  We almost lost the last game to Melo by himself.  I still think the Knicks could take this series with the way things have been going.  We should be destroying a lowly team like this... and the concern is that if we are struggling this much against this crap team... the Heat will completely eat us alive in the next round.

HOwever, last year Dwayne Wade won a game against us by himself and we eventually made the finals... which can either be interpreted as a good sign (one superstar can give you trouble, but the better team will prevail) or a bad sign (if we lost a game to Wade by himself... what happens when it's Wade, Bron and Bosh in the next round)

Really you can't read too much into early playoff struggles... the Lakers dropped game 1 and are probably going to win the title

So just curious, I assume you feel the same way about the Bulls barely beating the Pacers in Games 1 and 2? I mean, if the Knicks, a 6th seed, are a "lowly" team, I can only assume the Pacers are flat out trash, but the Pacers have been right there with the Bulls in the final minutes of the game.

It's a good point.  

[Roy H.]

Eh... If we struggle to beat Carmelo and the Pips just because they played with playoff intensity (despite shooting 36%), then I shudder to think what we would look like against the Heat.

This team needs to play much better if they want to get past the second round.

Apparently I'm in the vastcminority on this one, but I still don't think the Knicks are anything special. No, they're not the Twolves, but they're not good, either.  There can be no complaining about being up 2-0, but this team needs to find another gear against the good / very good teams that stand in their way.

I don't know.  I was disappointed with their play in the first game.  However, last game really reminded me of '10 Miami's one win against us last year when Wade was throwing up long distance, well-guarded, quite frankly, terrible, shots and hitting them.  Pierce guarded Melo well; Melo just hit a ton of tough shots that he won't hit every game. 

In fact, I think if we were to replay that game 25 times with the exact same shot selection by both teams, I think that the Celtics would win the majority of those games in blow out fashion. 

The real test will be next game.  Can they step it up and take NY by the throat on the road. 

Also, if Shaq can return before the end of the series, it will make an enormous impact on this team.  Right now it's night and day out there when Jermaine's in and when Jermaine's out.  When he's in there, NY has trouble getting to the hoop and has to settle for outside shots.  When he's not, they get to the basket practically at will.  If Shaq had been starting these games and JO had been coming in to anchor the defense of the 2nd unit (and thus avoiding the midget lineup of Green and Baby upfront), I think the C's would've never been down in Game 1 and that they would've won in blowout form Game 2. 

People make this comparison a lot.  Here's the difference:

Game 2 vs. NY (home):  Knicks shot 35.6% from the field, 32.0% from 3PT, and Carmelo was 14-for-30 with 42 points

Game 4 against MIA (road):  Heat shot 50.0% from the field, 55.6% from 3PT, and Wade shot 16-for-24 with 46 points

To me, those performances aren't equivalent at all.  In the Heat game, Wade went off (shooting 66.7% from the field), and the entire team shot well, especially from three.  Basically, that's one of those fluke games, where the other team is just hitting shots and you can't really stop them.

That's not what happened in the Knicks game at all.  Carmelo shot sub-50%, and the Knicks as a whole were terrible from the field and from deep. 

When a team and a superstar play as well as Wade and the Heat did last year, they're not going to lose very often.  However, in the Knicks game, neither the Knicks nor Carmelo were all that special.  It's a game we should have won easily, but we didn't not because of some fluke, but because we couldn't rebound the ball.

We won, which is all that really matters.  However, Game 2 wasn't an example of "well, we played well, but the Knicks just played better".  Rather, the Knicks played like crap outside of Carmelo (who was good, but not as great as Wade), and we barely squeaked by.