Author Topic: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."  (Read 18778 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2011, 03:04:50 PM »

Offline bello_man09

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2859
  • Tommy Points: 244
  • "Celtic for life" REBUILD OR TANK
Gasol is a better player overall than Amare....but the thing is he gets labeled as soft because he is European....and his style of play.... but Gasol is a very skilled player....Amare still lacks pure rebounding skills...

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2011, 03:06:15 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2011, 03:25:10 PM »

Offline CelticSooner

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11495
  • Tommy Points: 866
  • GOT IT!!!
I would say he's gotten a little tougher over the last few years. I still like the KG matchup now that he's healthy though.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2011, 03:26:03 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2011, 03:38:50 PM »

Offline Yvette

  • Payton Pritchard
  • Posts: 101
  • Tommy Points: 115
I'll take Pau over Amare in my team anytime....

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2011, 03:40:24 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.  His offense is starting to improve, become more varied, etc., getting him past put-backs and dunks with that little running "Walton" hook, for example, but offensively, he's still rough...nearly 4 TO's/gm.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 03:48:57 PM by More Banners »

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2011, 03:43:33 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58537
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.

I understand the point you're making, but Howard scores more points and shoots a higher percentage than Pau.  He's also a better defender and better rebounder.

I'd call Pau the second best big man in the NBA, but Howard is better.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2011, 03:51:44 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.  His offense is starting to improve, become more varied, etc., getting him past put-backs and dunks with that little running "Walton" hook, for example, but offensively, he's still rough...nearly 4 TO's/gm.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.

  Note you're discounting what Howard does because it isn't "genuinely elite", but you're praising Gasol for being solid at things. I think that says a lot about your argument.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2011, 03:52:51 PM »

Offline Von_Waf4

  • Neemias Queta
  • Posts: 10
  • Tommy Points: 2
  • Von Wafer
I think the Pau/Howard argument could only be true until this year as Dwight's shown his improved offensive game. Pau's a much better passer & is still more skilled offensively has a variety of ways to play effectively but I'd still give the Best Big Man title to Dwight.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2011, 04:07:14 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.  His offense is starting to improve, become more varied, etc., getting him past put-backs and dunks with that little running "Walton" hook, for example, but offensively, he's still rough...nearly 4 TO's/gm.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.

  Note you're discounting what Howard does because it isn't "genuinely elite", but you're praising Gasol for being solid at things. I think that says a lot about your argument.

True.  I should try a little more...but I'm lazy (hence being on CB instead of writing the paper I need to do...).

Looked at the Yahoo fantasy thing for quickie rankings.  Among Center-eligibles, which includes PF's of course due to the way Yahoo does their thing, Gasol is still top 10 in points and rebounds, and #13 in blocks (but behind Howard on all 3).  (looking at season averages)

My argument is that the margin by which Howard is better than Gasol in the areas he is known for is actually pretty small, and the margin by which Gasol is the better player (in those areas) is a bit larger, giving the nod to Gasol in my book.  Obviously, it's pretty close.

Dwight leads the league in turnovers per game at the C position, for example (Amare is second).  And for someone that draws so much attention from opposing defenses, and with a team of shooters around him, presumably to hit open shots when he is doubled, he only averages 1.3 assists/game.  With all due respect to Glen Davis, Howard might be the real black hole of basketball.

Gasol is #3 in assists for Center-eligibles.

And with the rebounding numbers, Pau plays mostly PF, or a lot of PF, since Bynum came back, which has him away from the paint a bit more than Dwight on both ends of the floor.  Gasol has a couple of 20-rebound games, not as much as Howard of course, but the case is that he's still an elite rebounder (better than solid).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2011, 04:17:05 PM by More Banners »

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2011, 04:39:21 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.  His offense is starting to improve, become more varied, etc., getting him past put-backs and dunks with that little running "Walton" hook, for example, but offensively, he's still rough...nearly 4 TO's/gm.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.

  Note you're discounting what Howard does because it isn't "genuinely elite", but you're praising Gasol for being solid at things. I think that says a lot about your argument.

True.  I should try a little more...but I'm lazy (hence being on CB instead of writing the paper I need to do...).

Looked at the Yahoo fantasy thing for quickie rankings.  Among Center-eligibles, which includes PF's of course due to the way Yahoo does their thing, Gasol is still top 10 in points and rebounds, and #13 in blocks (but behind Howard on all 3).  (looking at season averages)

My argument is that the margin by which Howard is better than Gasol in the areas he is known for is actually pretty small, and the margin by which Gasol is the better player (in those areas) is a bit larger, giving the nod to Gasol in my book.  Obviously, it's pretty close.

Dwight leads the league in turnovers per game at the C position, for example (Amare is second).  And for someone that draws so much attention from opposing defenses, and with a team of shooters around him, presumably to hit open shots when he is doubled, he only averages 1.3 assists/game.  With all due respect to Glen Davis, Howard might be the real black hole of basketball.

Gasol is #3 in assists for Center-eligibles.

And with the rebounding numbers, Pau plays mostly PF, or a lot of PF, since Bynum came back, which has him away from the paint a bit more than Dwight on both ends of the floor.  Gasol has a couple of 20-rebound games, not as much as Howard of course, but the case is that he's still an elite rebounder (better than solid).

  Your discussion is missing four letters. D P O Y.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2011, 05:09:54 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

  • NCE
  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11833
  • Tommy Points: 950
Andrew Bynum said this on twitter

Quote
The NBA is a weird place! How can a man that plays 0 defense call a 2 time champion soft?

Does that mean Bynum would also object to Stoudemire calling Luke Walton white soft?
"The worst thing that ever happened in sports was sports radio, and the internet is sports radio on steroids with lower IQs.” -- Brian Burke, former Toronto Maple Leafs senior adviser, at the 2013 MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2011, 05:17:43 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257
Gasol is the best big man in the game...more skills than Howard.

Toughness complements talent well, but can't replace it.

  Think the Magic would be better with Gasol than Howard? I don't.


I think when teams are built around one player, who that player is makes a difference in the other guys that are brought in, so you're probably correct that a swap-out of centerpieces changes the table.

But I think that Gasol's passing and high post game would ultimately do wonders for just about any team, including the Magic, though other players would have to step up and get some boards.  I'd say Gasol can make his teammates better in more ways than Howard.

As I think about it, yeah, I'm standing by it:

Gasol > Howard

  Was that a roundabout "no"? And you don't think that Howard's defense and rebounding would do wonders for every team in the league? And in what way does Gasol make his teammates better? This isn't Bird or Magic we're discussing.


Howard does give great defense and rebounding, but doesn't do that much else at a genuinely elite level.  His offense is starting to improve, become more varied, etc., getting him past put-backs and dunks with that little running "Walton" hook, for example, but offensively, he's still rough...nearly 4 TO's/gm.

Gasol is a solid rebounder and defender as well, averaging 10 boards and 1.7 blocks this season, but adds a much, much more polished offensive game.  I think that difference gives him the edge over Howard.

  Note you're discounting what Howard does because it isn't "genuinely elite", but you're praising Gasol for being solid at things. I think that says a lot about your argument.

True.  I should try a little more...but I'm lazy (hence being on CB instead of writing the paper I need to do...).

Looked at the Yahoo fantasy thing for quickie rankings.  Among Center-eligibles, which includes PF's of course due to the way Yahoo does their thing, Gasol is still top 10 in points and rebounds, and #13 in blocks (but behind Howard on all 3).  (looking at season averages)

My argument is that the margin by which Howard is better than Gasol in the areas he is known for is actually pretty small, and the margin by which Gasol is the better player (in those areas) is a bit larger, giving the nod to Gasol in my book.  Obviously, it's pretty close.

Dwight leads the league in turnovers per game at the C position, for example (Amare is second).  And for someone that draws so much attention from opposing defenses, and with a team of shooters around him, presumably to hit open shots when he is doubled, he only averages 1.3 assists/game.  With all due respect to Glen Davis, Howard might be the real black hole of basketball.

Gasol is #3 in assists for Center-eligibles.

And with the rebounding numbers, Pau plays mostly PF, or a lot of PF, since Bynum came back, which has him away from the paint a bit more than Dwight on both ends of the floor.  Gasol has a couple of 20-rebound games, not as much as Howard of course, but the case is that he's still an elite rebounder (better than solid).

  Your discussion is missing four letters. D P O Y.

You're right again...gosh, I stink at this. 

But let's add two-time defending champion and top big man in the international game to Gasol's accolades as well.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2011, 05:45:35 PM »

Offline BballTim

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23724
  • Tommy Points: 1123

True.  I should try a little more...but I'm lazy (hence being on CB instead of writing the paper I need to do...).

Looked at the Yahoo fantasy thing for quickie rankings.  Among Center-eligibles, which includes PF's of course due to the way Yahoo does their thing, Gasol is still top 10 in points and rebounds, and #13 in blocks (but behind Howard on all 3).  (looking at season averages)

My argument is that the margin by which Howard is better than Gasol in the areas he is known for is actually pretty small, and the margin by which Gasol is the better player (in those areas) is a bit larger, giving the nod to Gasol in my book.  Obviously, it's pretty close.

Dwight leads the league in turnovers per game at the C position, for example (Amare is second).  And for someone that draws so much attention from opposing defenses, and with a team of shooters around him, presumably to hit open shots when he is doubled, he only averages 1.3 assists/game.  With all due respect to Glen Davis, Howard might be the real black hole of basketball.

Gasol is #3 in assists for Center-eligibles.

And with the rebounding numbers, Pau plays mostly PF, or a lot of PF, since Bynum came back, which has him away from the paint a bit more than Dwight on both ends of the floor.  Gasol has a couple of 20-rebound games, not as much as Howard of course, but the case is that he's still an elite rebounder (better than solid).

  Your discussion is missing four letters. D P O Y.

You're right again...gosh, I stink at this. 

But let's add two-time defending champion and top big man in the international game to Gasol's accolades as well.

  I don't think either of those accolades help Pau's case.

Re: Amare Stoudemire: "Pau Gasol is Soft."
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2011, 05:55:34 PM »

Offline More Banners

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3845
  • Tommy Points: 257

True.  I should try a little more...but I'm lazy (hence being on CB instead of writing the paper I need to do...).

Looked at the Yahoo fantasy thing for quickie rankings.  Among Center-eligibles, which includes PF's of course due to the way Yahoo does their thing, Gasol is still top 10 in points and rebounds, and #13 in blocks (but behind Howard on all 3).  (looking at season averages)

My argument is that the margin by which Howard is better than Gasol in the areas he is known for is actually pretty small, and the margin by which Gasol is the better player (in those areas) is a bit larger, giving the nod to Gasol in my book.  Obviously, it's pretty close.

Dwight leads the league in turnovers per game at the C position, for example (Amare is second).  And for someone that draws so much attention from opposing defenses, and with a team of shooters around him, presumably to hit open shots when he is doubled, he only averages 1.3 assists/game.  With all due respect to Glen Davis, Howard might be the real black hole of basketball.

Gasol is #3 in assists for Center-eligibles.

And with the rebounding numbers, Pau plays mostly PF, or a lot of PF, since Bynum came back, which has him away from the paint a bit more than Dwight on both ends of the floor.  Gasol has a couple of 20-rebound games, not as much as Howard of course, but the case is that he's still an elite rebounder (better than solid).

  Your discussion is missing four letters. D P O Y.

You're right again...gosh, I stink at this. 

But let's add two-time defending champion and top big man in the international game to Gasol's accolades as well.

  I don't think either of those accolades help Pau's case.

Well, Tim, I happen to think that championships and playoff achievements matter, so it seems I must resort to the "oh, come on" argument.  If not for NBA/Stern rigging, Gasol was Finals MVP.