Why Do People Consider Westbrook to Be Better Than Rondo?

[Edgar]

not sure if better but hes darn good

[Bahku]

Because they're from Oklahoma City.

[xmuscularghandix]

Because people overvalue scoring.

[BballTim]

The game that scores the most points usually wins, right? Well, you add up the points a PG scores plus the points that are scored thru his assists and that should give you a clear idea of who is more effective. If a PG scores 20 points and has 15 assists, that would sum up around 20 + 30 points not counting how many points on the assists are 3 pointers. I dont know if you get an assist if the recipient of the pass is fouled and either scores 2 foul, on 1 foul or misses both. You would have to consider the total output of each PG to determine who is most effective. Assists are extremely important. of course, but scoring points anyway you can is the best. A study would have to be made of which PG today causes the most points to be scored by his team by summing up his points and the points he causes his team to score.

  You should also consider how the players do on the other end of the court. According to 82games Westbrook gets 9.5 points and 2.4 assists more than his opposing pg in 48 minutes. If you count the differences in rebounds, turnovers, shots and free throws Westbrook uses 8.4 possessions to get those 9.5 points. Considering OKC's scoring rate they get around 9.3 points in 8.4 possessions so his scoring advantage is basically a wash.

  Rondo gets outscored by 4.5 points in 48 mintes and gets 7.5 more assists than his opponent. But he uses 7,2 fewer possessions than his opponent. Based on the Celts scoring rate those possessions are worth about 7.8 points. So considering possessions used Westbrook gains you about .2 points and 2.4 assists in 48 minutes, Rondo nets you 3.3 points and 7.5 assists in the same amount of time.

[footey]

right now westbrook is playing better than rondo. Rondo has really declined post Perk trade.  My bet is no Rondo come play off time, though.

[Capricious]

The reason is:

Rose:
24.7ppg, 4.3rpg, 7.9apg, 1.1spg, 3.5to
44% FG, 34% 3p, 85% FT

Westbrook:
22.1ppg, 4.6rpg, 8.4apg, 1.8spg, 3.9to
44% FG, 33% 3p, 84% FT

He's a point guard in the rose mold, who happens to be the leading MVP candidate.

CP3 is the best in my mind - super efficient, takes care of the ball, distributes well, and plays good D.

[BballTim]

Because they're from Oklahoma City.

  Only two things come from Oklahoma City...

[BballTim]

right now westbrook is playing better than rondo. Rondo has really declined post Perk trade.  My bet is no Rondo come play off time, though.

  This is true, but if Chris Paul or Deron Williams had a bad stretch of games (likely due to a nagging injury) how many people here would claim that they borderline top 10 point guards?

[BudweiserCeltic]

The game that scores the most points usually wins, right? Well, you add up the points a PG scores plus the points that are scored thru his assists and that should give you a clear idea of who is more effective. If a PG scores 20 points and has 15 assists, that would sum up around 20 + 30 points not counting how many points on the assists are 3 pointers. I dont know if you get an assist if the recipient of the pass is fouled and either scores 2 foul, on 1 foul or misses both. You would have to consider the total output of each PG to determine who is most effective. Assists are extremely important. of course, but scoring points anyway you can is the best. A study would have to be made of which PG today causes the most points to be scored by his team by summing up his points and the points he causes his team to score.

  You should also consider how the players do on the other end of the court. According to 82games Westbrook gets 9.5 points and 2.4 assists more than his opposing pg in 48 minutes. If you count the differences in rebounds, turnovers, shots and free throws Westbrook uses 8.4 possessions to get those 9.5 points. Considering OKC's scoring rate they get around 9.3 points in 8.4 possessions so his scoring advantage is basically a wash.

  Rondo gets outscored by 4.5 points in 48 mintes and gets 7.5 more assists than his opponent. But he uses 7,2 fewer possessions than his opponent. Based on the Celts scoring rate those possessions are worth about 7.8 points. So considering possessions used Westbrook gains you about .2 points and 2.4 assists in 48 minutes, Rondo nets you 3.3 points and 7.5 assists in the same amount of time.

That's weird way to look at things I think, since it punishes Westbrook for having to carry a big chunk of the load offensively for his team, while rewarding Rondo by being surrounded by awesome teammates.

[BballTim]

The game that scores the most points usually wins, right? Well, you add up the points a PG scores plus the points that are scored thru his assists and that should give you a clear idea of who is more effective. If a PG scores 20 points and has 15 assists, that would sum up around 20 + 30 points not counting how many points on the assists are 3 pointers. I dont know if you get an assist if the recipient of the pass is fouled and either scores 2 foul, on 1 foul or misses both. You would have to consider the total output of each PG to determine who is most effective. Assists are extremely important. of course, but scoring points anyway you can is the best. A study would have to be made of which PG today causes the most points to be scored by his team by summing up his points and the points he causes his team to score.

  You should also consider how the players do on the other end of the court. According to 82games Westbrook gets 9.5 points and 2.4 assists more than his opposing pg in 48 minutes. If you count the differences in rebounds, turnovers, shots and free throws Westbrook uses 8.4 possessions to get those 9.5 points. Considering OKC's scoring rate they get around 9.3 points in 8.4 possessions so his scoring advantage is basically a wash.

  Rondo gets outscored by 4.5 points in 48 mintes and gets 7.5 more assists than his opponent. But he uses 7,2 fewer possessions than his opponent. Based on the Celts scoring rate those possessions are worth about 7.8 points. So considering possessions used Westbrook gains you about .2 points and 2.4 assists in 48 minutes, Rondo nets you 3.3 points and 7.5 assists in the same amount of time.

That's weird way to look at things I think, since it punishes Westbrook for having to carry a big chunk of the load offensively for his team, while rewarding Rondo by being surrounded by awesome teammates.

  It doesn't take into account the fact that the Celts shooting percentage goes up when Rondo's in, not so with the Thunder and Westbrook. I don't think it really punishes Westbrook other than it takes into account defense, although you could argue that it does in the number of assists. There are a lot of ways to judge things though. If you count assists as possessions and credit the pg with the points the assists bring then you'd get Westbrook generating 41 points on 33 possessions (1.24 ppp) vs Rondo, 37 points on 26 possessions (1.42  ppp). It's really an apples to oranges argument.

  And I think that the recent play of the Celtics cast the "awesome teammates" argument into a different light. They seem to struggle mightily when Rondo's playing poorly. Look at some of the teams they've played with in the past and were able to average 22-27 or so points with. Compare those supporting casts to a foursome of Krstic (a decent offensive player), Rondo and 2 of the big three. Their teammates are much better now, even with Rondo's poor play.

[Fafnir]

I think Westbrook is as good of a defender as Rondo, his size gives him a big advantage on that end allowing him to play bigger players tougher.

He's just not a very good offensive facilitator, but he's a much better one on one offensive player.

[Roy H.]

Because they're from Oklahoma City.

  Only two things come from Oklahoma City...

Krstic and Green?

[ManUp]

Because people overvalue scoring.

and dunking ability.

[BudweiserCeltic]

The game that scores the most points usually wins, right? Well, you add up the points a PG scores plus the points that are scored thru his assists and that should give you a clear idea of who is more effective. If a PG scores 20 points and has 15 assists, that would sum up around 20 + 30 points not counting how many points on the assists are 3 pointers. I dont know if you get an assist if the recipient of the pass is fouled and either scores 2 foul, on 1 foul or misses both. You would have to consider the total output of each PG to determine who is most effective. Assists are extremely important. of course, but scoring points anyway you can is the best. A study would have to be made of which PG today causes the most points to be scored by his team by summing up his points and the points he causes his team to score.

  You should also consider how the players do on the other end of the court. According to 82games Westbrook gets 9.5 points and 2.4 assists more than his opposing pg in 48 minutes. If you count the differences in rebounds, turnovers, shots and free throws Westbrook uses 8.4 possessions to get those 9.5 points. Considering OKC's scoring rate they get around 9.3 points in 8.4 possessions so his scoring advantage is basically a wash.

  Rondo gets outscored by 4.5 points in 48 mintes and gets 7.5 more assists than his opponent. But he uses 7,2 fewer possessions than his opponent. Based on the Celts scoring rate those possessions are worth about 7.8 points. So considering possessions used Westbrook gains you about .2 points and 2.4 assists in 48 minutes, Rondo nets you 3.3 points and 7.5 assists in the same amount of time.

That's weird way to look at things I think, since it punishes Westbrook for having to carry a big chunk of the load offensively for his team, while rewarding Rondo by being surrounded by awesome teammates.

  It doesn't take into account the fact that the Celts shooting percentage goes up when Rondo's in, not so with the Thunder and Westbrook. I don't think it really punishes Westbrook other than it takes into account defense, although you could argue that it does in the number of assists. There are a lot of ways to judge things though. If you count assists as possessions and credit the pg with the points the assists bring then you'd get Westbrook generating 41 points on 33 possessions (1.24 ppp) vs Rondo, 37 points on 26 possessions (1.42  ppp). It's really an apples to oranges argument.

Was merely commenting that in a Thunder's team, the shot distribution is heavily influenced by two players, being Westbrook and Durant. As such their contributions to the team average influences heavily. In contrast, since Rondo doesn't carry that burden he's benefiting from his teammates who are great offensive weapons. So a lot of the numbers you had used above reflect this nature of the team. The absence of possessions from Rondo not taking a shot attempt works in his favor when he's surrounded with the likes of Ray, Pierce, and KG.

And I think that the recent play of the Celtics cast the "awesome teammates" argument into a different light. They seem to struggle mightily when Rondo's playing poorly.

Which has been my main argument when I complain about Rondo. When I complain about Rondo I do so from the perspective of the amount of responsibility he has in running our offense, and when he's not doing anything, then it hurts us more so when you consider all the offensive weapons we have in our team.

With Westbrook, other than Durant, he's pretty much the offensive weapon, so for better or worse you're stuck with his scoring ability every day. They struggle when he doesn't play well similarly, but in his case he doesn't have much choice about it. He doesn't have many options to go to when he's had a poor shooting night.

In this regard, I think Rondo responsibilities allow him to have more control on what he can do well to help the team (and it's the thing that he has control over that bother me), while Westbrook's responsibilities limit what he can do when he's not shooting well for example, some of that he doesn't have much control over. You can only hope he at least improves on his shot selection when he's having an off night.

Then we have to consider how people guard each player etc.

[Chris]

It depends on what you are looking for.  I think Rondo is a significantly better fit for this team (and I think he would be a better fit playing with Durant as well).  Rondo is one of the best in the business at getting other guys involved and making others around him better.

However, if I were starting a team that did not have other great players, I would prefer to have Westbrook, who I see as a young Dwayne Wade.  He just is an incredibly talented scorer.