Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 159862 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1230 on: August 30, 2017, 08:23:48 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3199
  • Tommy Points: 310
The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.
A couple thousand gold cloaks have kept order in King's landing.  Do you see any rioting in King's landing?  All that food in High Garden got to King's landing.  Popular uprising don't occur that often and when they do they are usually quelled rather easily by brutal Tyrants.  Dorne and High Garden forces have already been defeated.  The Lannisters have by the best and largest military forces in the South.  There is practically no one left in the South to challenge her.  Only the Knights of the Vale really remain.  As far as leaders take away Jon and Dany and there's no one left to lead a revolt.  Cersei already paid off a huge debt to the Iron Bank.  If she wins, she'd have no problem paying off the debt for the Gold Company. 

You ignore that the North is much less populated than the South and that much of their fighting men have already been killed.  When Jon fought Ramsey Bolton, he had 2000 men including wildings and Ramsey had 5000.  Those were all Northern men on both sides that got slaughtered and only the Knights of the Vale saved Jon from his own stupidity.  Assuming Jon and Dany defeat the dead, many of their remaining forces are going to be killed doing so.   Take away the dragons and Cersei would have a far superior hand.  Heck if Dany and Jon are stupid enough to keep traveling by ship Euron would wipe them out. 

Another significant advantage Cersei has is Qyburn and his little birds.  They'd learn of any plots against Cersei before they were able to become a real threat.
the gold cloaks kept the peace when the south was all behind one ruler and no other legitimate threats to the throne existed i..e. when the tyrant had all the power.  The golden company is an army of mercenaries those aren't reliable for anything. They will leave as soon as it looks like they will die.  You can only buy support for so long.
The Golden Company are mercenaries who will fight and die as long as they are getting paid and they've got a chance to win.  What other leader are southerners going to follow?  Jon or Dany?  A northerner and a foreigner and both Targaryens.  Although most southerners would dismiss Jon's claims of being a Targaryen and rightful ruler.  Dorne and High Garden joined up with them and got wiped out.  You don't see southerners flocking to Jon or Dany.  If they defeat the dead in the North, the southerners won't even know about it except for some rumors that they'll brush of as northern nonsense. 

Why would southerners want Dany to win?  She'll remind them of the Mad King.  She brings dragons which is bad.  She brings Unsullied which is bad.  She brings Dothraki which is really, really bad.  Cersei and Jamie already showed how easy it was to use that against Dany by getting the Tarlys to turn on High Garden.  Of course, the stories of how Dany burned the Tarlys alive will be thrown into the mix too.  Most southerners won't Cersei may not be loved by southerners but neither is Jon or Dany.  Except for fear most southerners have no reason to support Jon or Dany. 


Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1231 on: August 30, 2017, 09:24:41 AM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17161
  • Tommy Points: 816
The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.
A couple thousand gold cloaks have kept order in King's landing.  Do you see any rioting in King's landing?  All that food in High Garden got to King's landing.  Popular uprising don't occur that often and when they do they are usually quelled rather easily by brutal Tyrants.  Dorne and High Garden forces have already been defeated.  The Lannisters have by the best and largest military forces in the South.  There is practically no one left in the South to challenge her.  Only the Knights of the Vale really remain.  As far as leaders take away Jon and Dany and there's no one left to lead a revolt.  Cersei already paid off a huge debt to the Iron Bank.  If she wins, she'd have no problem paying off the debt for the Gold Company. 

You ignore that the North is much less populated than the South and that much of their fighting men have already been killed.  When Jon fought Ramsey Bolton, he had 2000 men including wildings and Ramsey had 5000.  Those were all Northern men on both sides that got slaughtered and only the Knights of the Vale saved Jon from his own stupidity.  Assuming Jon and Dany defeat the dead, many of their remaining forces are going to be killed doing so.   Take away the dragons and Cersei would have a far superior hand.  Heck if Dany and Jon are stupid enough to keep traveling by ship Euron would wipe them out. 

Another significant advantage Cersei has is Qyburn and his little birds.  They'd learn of any plots against Cersei before they were able to become a real threat.
the gold cloaks kept the peace when the south was all behind one ruler and no other legitimate threats to the throne existed i..e. when the tyrant had all the power.  The golden company is an army of mercenaries those aren't reliable for anything. They will leave as soon as it looks like they will die.  You can only buy support for so long.
The Golden Company are mercenaries who will fight and die as long as they are getting paid and they've got a chance to win.  What other leader are southerners going to follow?  Jon or Dany?  A northerner and a foreigner and both Targaryens.  Although most southerners would dismiss Jon's claims of being a Targaryen and rightful ruler.  Dorne and High Garden joined up with them and got wiped out.  You don't see southerners flocking to Jon or Dany.  If they defeat the dead in the North, the southerners won't even know about it except for some rumors that they'll brush of as northern nonsense. 

Why would southerners want Dany to win?  She'll remind them of the Mad King.  She brings dragons which is bad.  She brings Unsullied which is bad.  She brings Dothraki which is really, really bad.  Cersei and Jamie already showed how easy it was to use that against Dany by getting the Tarlys to turn on High Garden.  Of course, the stories of how Dany burned the Tarlys alive will be thrown into the mix too.  Most southerners won't Cersei may not be loved by southerners but neither is Jon or Dany.  Except for fear most southerners have no reason to support Jon or Dany.
The Tarly's turned on High Garden because they were going to lose.  But that is the point I'm making, the only ones with true loyalty are Jon and Dany.  Cersei doesn't have loyalty, which means they don't really have support, only fear.  Fear is powerful for a ruler when there aren't other options, but there will be other options here. 

And let's think about the Southern "heirs" still alive.  Edmure Tully, Robyn Arryn, and of course Samwell Tarly (though not a "Great House").  The Tyrell's and Martell's are seemingly wiped out and the only Baratheon left is the **** Gendry.  Plus, you have Brienne of Tarth a mid-tier house.  I'm sure there are plenty of other lords not on the show or in the books, but they won't provide much as they aren't great houses.  All of the named people will support Jon and/or Dany.  The Highgarden and Dornish forces are basically destroyed.  The Lannister army isn't what it once was.  An "army" of mercenaries won't win a war like this and Euron and his ships only work on the water, this won't be a water fight.  Besides one dragon pass and the ships are all gone in an instant.

Cersei has virtually no shot at winning.  And you keep mentioning the "Mad King" and act like Cersei isn't a "Mad Queen".  She is just as crazy as the Mad King, and her actions will absolutely be known.  And you know those are recent events not 20 years ago. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1232 on: August 30, 2017, 11:12:22 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18110
  • Tommy Points: 8814
question for the group:
my wife mentioned something to me after watching the last episode that I hadn't considered so I'd appreciate any thoughts people may have on this --> Bran was by the tree and went into 'vision mode' right before the scene at the wall.  I just took everything that happened at the wall at face value as actually happening in real time and just considering Bran's scene as a transition to get to the wall.  My wife mentioned that she thought Bran was seeing a future that hadn't happened yet and in doing so, may be able to get warning to the wall and others (Jon/Dany) to prepare or prevent the wall from coming down.

I could have sworn Bran couldn't see the future, just the past and present.  Is my wife onto something or is my interpretation of things the more likely situation?

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1233 on: August 30, 2017, 11:17:22 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33238
  • Tommy Points: -27965
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
question for the group:
my wife mentioned something to me after watching the last episode that I hadn't considered so I'd appreciate any thoughts people may have on this --> Bran was by the tree and went into 'vision mode' right before the scene at the wall.  I just took everything that happened at the wall at face value as actually happening in real time and just considering Bran's scene as a transition to get to the wall.  My wife mentioned that she thought Bran was seeing a future that hadn't happened yet and in doing so, may be able to get warning to the wall and others (Jon/Dany) to prepare or prevent the wall from coming down.

I could have sworn Bran couldn't see the future, just the past and present.  Is my wife onto something or is my interpretation of things the more likely situation?

I'm not sure if it was just sloppy editing or not, but Bran saw flashes of future events in Season 6.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iP-sZanBikA


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1234 on: August 30, 2017, 11:20:15 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17833
  • Tommy Points: 2390
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
question for the group:
my wife mentioned something to me after watching the last episode that I hadn't considered so I'd appreciate any thoughts people may have on this --> Bran was by the tree and went into 'vision mode' right before the scene at the wall.  I just took everything that happened at the wall at face value as actually happening in real time and just considering Bran's scene as a transition to get to the wall.  My wife mentioned that she thought Bran was seeing a future that hadn't happened yet and in doing so, may be able to get warning to the wall and others (Jon/Dany) to prepare or prevent the wall from coming down.

I could have sworn Bran couldn't see the future, just the past and present.  Is my wife onto something or is my interpretation of things the more likely situation?

He's caught glimpses of the future before (quick flashes of the Sept blowing up, a dragon's shadow over Kings' Landing etc) but it seems limited.

In any event I think the show was clearly showing something happening in the present. Bran was probably watching through that raven though.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1235 on: August 30, 2017, 11:21:14 AM »

Offline RLewis35

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 326
  • Tommy Points: 53
  • I drink and I know things
question for the group:
my wife mentioned something to me after watching the last episode that I hadn't considered so I'd appreciate any thoughts people may have on this --> Bran was by the tree and went into 'vision mode' right before the scene at the wall.  I just took everything that happened at the wall at face value as actually happening in real time and just considering Bran's scene as a transition to get to the wall.  My wife mentioned that she thought Bran was seeing a future that hadn't happened yet and in doing so, may be able to get warning to the wall and others (Jon/Dany) to prepare or prevent the wall from coming down.

I could have sworn Bran couldn't see the future, just the past and present.  Is my wife onto something or is my interpretation of things the more likely situation?

Greenseers can see the future I believe (jojen could) so theoretically Bran could see the future I guess, however that scene Bran warged into ravens who flew to the wall so Bran could see what was happening.  Think it's present and the white walkers have to be fought in westeros.  Good question though.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1236 on: August 31, 2017, 07:44:23 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14902
  • Tommy Points: 946
Quote
I don't know about that.  The five highest paid actors were paid 1.1M per episode this season instead of the 500k per episode they were paid last season.  Everyone was well aware season 7 would only be 7 episodes when these negotiations occurred

Do you also know how expensive CGI effects are?   Once again money.


Quote
  My wife mentioned that she thought Bran was seeing a future that hadn't happened yet and in doing so, may be able to get warning to the wall and others (Jon/Dany) to prepare or prevent the wall from coming down.

I think the Wall went down.   I hope Tormund made it out.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1237 on: August 31, 2017, 12:46:08 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • Dennis Johnson
  • ******************
  • Posts: 18110
  • Tommy Points: 8814
thanks for the feedback -- I feel well-armed to have that debate with my wife now

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1238 on: September 03, 2017, 11:42:15 PM »

Offline jpotter33

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23493
  • Tommy Points: 2867
So, here's something that's been troubling me ever since the finale.

IIRC, Cersei told Jaime that she hired the Golden Company with the help of the Iron Bank representative and the gold attained from Highgarden after the Lannisters sacked it. However, all of that gold was presumably confiscated or burned up by Daenerys during the loot train attack. I think they even showed the carriage carrying the gold on fire.

So the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cersei either explicitly lied to the Iron Bank about having that gold or she just never told them that she didn't end up receiving it.

I think this could end up playing a major role down the stretch next season, because they've made a big deal throughout the show (even this season) that sellswords are not reliable due to fighting solely for money, which could pose a problem when it leaks that the Lannisters are broke and can't pay them.

Hell, the Golden Company's words are even "Our word is as good as gold," which is awfully coincidental given both the Lannister's words of "A Lannister always pays his debts" and the situation at hand.
Quote from:  Ron Swanson
It's never too early to learn that the government is a greedy piglet that suckles on a taxpayer's teet until they have sore, chapped nipples.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1239 on: September 04, 2017, 12:00:34 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33238
  • Tommy Points: -27965
  • 33,333 posts and counting . . .
I think it was explicitly mentioned that all the gold made it to King's Landing. Most of the "loot" in the wagons was food.


Once a CrotoNat, always a CrotoNat.  CelticsBlog Draft Champions, 2009 & 2012;
DKC Draft 2015 Champions and beyond...

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1240 on: September 04, 2017, 12:13:47 AM »

Offline GratefulCs

  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2641
  • Tommy Points: 445
  • Salmon and Mashed Potatoes
So, here's something that's been troubling me ever since the finale.

IIRC, Cersei told Jaime that she hired the Golden Company with the help of the Iron Bank representative and the gold attained from Highgarden after the Lannisters sacked it. However, all of that gold was presumably confiscated or burned up by Daenerys during the loot train attack. I think they even showed the carriage carrying the gold on fire.

So the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cersei either explicitly lied to the Iron Bank about having that gold or she just never told them that she didn't end up receiving it.

I think this could end up playing a major role down the stretch next season, because they've made a big deal throughout the show (even this season) that sellswords are not reliable due to fighting solely for money, which could pose a problem when it leaks that the Lannisters are broke and can't pay them.

Hell, the Golden Company's words are even "Our word is as good as gold," which is awfully coincidental given both the Lannister's words of "A Lannister always pays his debts" and the situation at hand.
i think Randall Tarly says at one point that most of the gold has made it to the coffers and that it was mostly food left in the loot train

but i think lack of food in kings landing will play a role next season
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1241 on: September 15, 2017, 02:35:37 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17161
  • Tommy Points: 816
Yeah they made a point to mention the gold made it back to king's landing. 

They did however give all of their gold over to the Iron Bank, so I see no reason why the Iron Bank would actually choose Cersei and lend her more money.  That was perhaps her biggest mistake, she shouldn't have paid it all back.  She should have made a payment large enough to get them off her back, but kept a debt large enough to keep the Iron Bank invested in her. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1242 on: September 15, 2017, 03:10:07 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3199
  • Tommy Points: 310
Sounds like some of you must have dozed off.  They had multiple scenes with Cersei and the Iron Bank representative.  The gold did make it back to King's Landing and the Iron Bank rep commented about Cersei paying off such a large loan so quickly.  I believe the comment was no one had ever done so before. 

They also discussed the Iron Bank providing funds to cover the cost of the Golden Company.  Cersei made a very cogent argument that Daenerys is an usurper doesn't care about the Iron Bank's interest including bringing up how much Daenerys' activities in Slavers Bay had cost the Iron Bank.  The Iron Bank rep agreed to the deal.  Cersei told Jamie that Euron was on his way to pick up the Golden Company not running away like he pretended to do. 

Regarding the food, it really shouldn't be that big of a deal.  While Daenerys and Jon are fighting the dead in the North, Cersei can stockpile plenty of food  and whatever other supplies that are needed.  King's Landing has direct access to the sea and Euron has control over the seas. So unless Daeneyrs is going to just fly around with her dragons enforcing a blockade there shouldn't be an issue.  Also with only 6 episodes left there really isn't time for a protracted siege. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1243 on: September 15, 2017, 03:41:57 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

  • Cedric Maxwell
  • **************
  • Posts: 14902
  • Tommy Points: 946
Quote
However, all of that gold was presumably confiscated or burned up by Daenerys during the loot train attack. I think they even showed the carriage carrying the gold on fire.

The gold made it back and she repaid the debt.   You must have missed that it happened but many of us recall it.

Quote
So the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cersei either explicitly lied to the Iron Bank about having that gold or she just never told them that she didn't end up receiving it.

She paid them with the Tyrell Gold and said the oft mention motto . " A Lannister always paid their debts."

Quote
I think this could end up playing a major role down the stretch next season, because they've made a big deal throughout the show (even this season) that sellswords are not reliable due to fighting solely for money, which could pose a problem when it leaks that the Lannisters are broke and can't pay them.

Hell, the Golden Company's words are even "Our word is as good as gold," which is awfully coincidental given both the Lannister's words of "A Lannister always pays his debts" and the situation at hand.

Historically mercenaries often went to the winner and switched sides.  John Hawkwood and the White Company are a great example.

https://listverse.com/2014/06/19/10-swashbuckling-mercenaries-who-ravaged-medieval-europe/

A lot of GOT is based on history Stark aka York and Lannister aka Lancaster in the War of Roses  are a great example.  Now I think the Starks will win in the War of Roses the York side did not.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1244 on: September 15, 2017, 04:18:19 PM »

Online Moranis

  • Global Moderator
  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17161
  • Tommy Points: 816
Quote
However, all of that gold was presumably confiscated or burned up by Daenerys during the loot train attack. I think they even showed the carriage carrying the gold on fire.

The gold made it back and she repaid the debt.   You must have missed that it happened but many of us recall it.

Quote
So the only thing that makes sense to me is that Cersei either explicitly lied to the Iron Bank about having that gold or she just never told them that she didn't end up receiving it.

She paid them with the Tyrell Gold and said the oft mention motto . " A Lannister always paid their debts."

Quote
I think this could end up playing a major role down the stretch next season, because they've made a big deal throughout the show (even this season) that sellswords are not reliable due to fighting solely for money, which could pose a problem when it leaks that the Lannisters are broke and can't pay them.

Hell, the Golden Company's words are even "Our word is as good as gold," which is awfully coincidental given both the Lannister's words of "A Lannister always pays his debts" and the situation at hand.

Historically mercenaries often went to the winner and switched sides.  John Hawkwood and the White Company are a great example.

https://listverse.com/2014/06/19/10-swashbuckling-mercenaries-who-ravaged-medieval-europe/

A lot of GOT is based on history Stark aka York and Lannister aka Lancaster in the War of Roses  are a great example.  Now I think the Starks will win in the War of Roses the York side did not.
Of course the Lancaster King married a York Queen and in the end both families ended up ruling until Elizabeth the First died without an heir. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.