Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 413291 times)

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1215 on: August 28, 2017, 04:28:28 PM »

Offline liam

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Anyone else excited to see what Sam and Bran can do together. Sam finally has his hands on the ultimate book in Bran.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1216 on: August 28, 2017, 07:12:37 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1217 on: August 28, 2017, 07:21:54 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.

Sadly, almost none of that will be explored except in the most cursory of manners. Six episodes left, is it?


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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1218 on: August 28, 2017, 07:31:40 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.

Sadly, almost none of that will be explored except in the most cursory of manners. Six episodes left, is it?
I believe that is correct.  They are going to have to be some really long episodes to address everything. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1219 on: August 29, 2017, 04:15:50 PM »

Offline Moranis

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1220 on: August 29, 2017, 04:47:36 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.

Is Bran and the Night King somehow intertwined?

It wouldn't surprise me if Tyrion gave Cersei the idea to deceive everyone, as we know he will do anything to save his own life, and him watching Jon go into Dany's room showed us some sort of resentment/regret. Cersei was also very quick to say Jaime is the stupidest Lannister, possibly hinting that Tyrion had an idea she approved of.

Speaking of which, I read a theory that Tyrion isn't actually a Lannister, hence why Tywin had repeatedly stated he wasn't his son. He also looks nothing like them (blonde hair, blue eyes). The theory surmised he is also a Targaryen.

Gendry must have some sort of importance to be brought back this late. As the **** Baratheon, he has no claim, right? So how's he going to impact the show? Besides being the fastest runner, of course.


All in all, there were a lot of cool scenes season, but the storytelling definitely suffered from the condensed season. For every jaw-dropping scene, there was a scene that deserved a roll of the eyes.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 02:57:12 AM by GreenEnvy »
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1221 on: August 29, 2017, 04:54:26 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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Its really weird that the show has people thinking Cersei is an efficient steady ruler. The books make it clear she's been anything but one. (also she's been pretty awful in the show too in my eye)

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1222 on: August 30, 2017, 01:45:36 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.
A couple thousand gold cloaks have kept order in King's landing.  Do you see any rioting in King's landing?  All that food in High Garden got to King's landing.  Popular uprising don't occur that often and when they do they are usually quelled rather easily by brutal Tyrants.  Dorne and High Garden forces have already been defeated.  The Lannisters have by the best and largest military forces in the South.  There is practically no one left in the South to challenge her.  Only the Knights of the Vale really remain.  As far as leaders take away Jon and Dany and there's no one left to lead a revolt.  Cersei already paid off a huge debt to the Iron Bank.  If she wins, she'd have no problem paying off the debt for the Gold Company. 

You ignore that the North is much less populated than the South and that much of their fighting men have already been killed.  When Jon fought Ramsey Bolton, he had 2000 men including wildings and Ramsey had 5000.  Those were all Northern men on both sides that got slaughtered and only the Knights of the Vale saved Jon from his own stupidity.  Assuming Jon and Dany defeat the dead, many of their remaining forces are going to be killed doing so.   Take away the dragons and Cersei would have a far superior hand.  Heck if Dany and Jon are stupid enough to keep traveling by ship Euron would wipe them out. 

Another significant advantage Cersei has is Qyburn and his little birds.  They'd learn of any plots against Cersei before they were able to become a real threat. 
« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 01:52:32 AM by tazzmaniac »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1223 on: August 30, 2017, 02:13:21 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Its really weird that the show has people thinking Cersei is an efficient steady ruler. The books make it clear she's been anything but one. (also she's been pretty awful in the show too in my eye)
Let's see.  Previous rulers were the Mad King.  Enough said.  Robert Baratheon who even said himself that he was a lousy King and put the kingdom needlessly into huge debt.  Joffrey and Tommen.  Compared to all of them Cersei is guite efficient, steady and strong.  She is very much like her father.  She already paid of all the Iron Bank debt.  She's been very efficient taking out her enemies.  I'm just surprised that she hasn't hired the faceless men to take out Jon and Dany.  In the show and more so in the books, her biggest issue is that she's a woman in a very male dominated society. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1224 on: August 30, 2017, 03:40:38 AM »

Offline Casperian

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I'm torn on season 7. On one hand, it's great to finally see the storylines converge and the focus shift towards the real conflict, but on the other hand, this whole season feels a lot more "TV-ish".

So much fan-service, so much plot armor. I'm not sure why they needed to cut the number of episodes to seven if they then go and rush through most of the content. The series is still great, but this season didnt't feel nearly as good as previous ones.

On the bright side, I'm 100% sure the final two books will be a lot different to the show. So much stuff we see now just doesn't make any sense in the context of the books.
Budget, I imagine?


lol

Thanks, Captain Obvious.   :laugh:

I just don't see a big diference between 2 seasons at 10 and 3 seasons at 7 episodes. Considering how much content they cut from the books, and that the stuff I'm missing is the walking & talking, which doesn't cost that much, I'm not sure it's a budgetary issue.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1225 on: August 30, 2017, 06:32:36 AM »

Offline Moranis

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The problem with the Sansa/Arya twist is the scene where Sansa snuck into Arya's room.  If they were conspiring together, there was no reason to have a confrontation behind closed doors with nobody else in the room. 

Thought it was funny when Cersei called Jamie the stupidest Lannister.  Although I think Tyrion is giving him a good run for the title.  How many more times can his advice be wrong before Dany changes his position to court jester?
Cersei's plan won't work.  Jamie was right, whoever wins in the North will march South and wipe her out.  Her only shot was one of unity, especially if she stayed behind and Jon and Dany both died in the fight with the dead.  She could have then taken the position, that I'm sorry they died defending us, but we lost a lot of good men as well.  I did right by the kingdom, bend the knee.  Her tactic will only serve to get her wiped out.
Of course it won't because this is a show and they're not going to let Cersei win in the end.  The fans of the show would hate that.  The Night King will be defeated.  Theon and the Hound will get their redemption even if they end up dying doing it.  Cersei will be defeated.  Only question is how.  My guess is Jamie dies valiantly in battle.  Arya takes his face and kills Cersei.  The only real question is what happens between Jon and Dany.  I suspect that will be addressed by her becoming pregnant. 

Unity and hoping Jon and Dany die in the fighting is not a plan for victory.  If Jon and Dany die, the dead most likely would have won.  Letting your two enemies fight each other while you build up your forces is a good plan. 

Cersei correctly surmised that one of the dragons is dead.  If one dragon can die so can the others.  Without the dragons, Jon and Dany's forces are very beatable.  There were only 8000 Unsullied to start and at least 1000 should already be dead from fighting.  Robb Stark's northern army only had 20K men and they were pretty much wiped out.  The Dothraki are impressive but they aren't made for conducting sieges.  If Jon and Dany defeat the dead, their forces will be significantly depleted. 

Meanwhile Cersei is rebuilding her forces.  20k Gold Company mercenaries are on the way.  Euron controls the seas.  More ballista can be made.  More wildfire can be produced.  The way Qyburn was looking at the dead remains, I wouldn't be surprised if Cersei has her own dead (or half-dead) army.
They can't defeat the Night King without the dragons.  Thus at least 1 dragon will survive the fighting.  Cersei also just isn't likeable.  The people won't be on her side, which will eventually lead to her downfall.  You can't keep power for long if no one wants you to.  She is taking a position that will lead to the other side being the one the people back (unless it is the army of the dead).  If they see any crack in the shield, they will bolt to Jon/Dany, especially as the whispers of Cersei's betrayal become louder and louder.
Obviously at least one dragon will survive since it is a TV show but that is not a given.  Valyrian steel and dragon glass kill white walkers.  The dragons are needed for mass destruction of the dead.  Of course, wildfire would work quite well against them too.  As for the dragon, just need a bunch of the ballista. 

What world do you live in?  Brutal tyrants keep power quite well.  Now and throughout human history.  The people generally don't matter.   It is the important power brokers that do.  Hence her move to get the Iron Bank on her side.  Cersei may not be liked but she's been an efficient and steady ruler.  She's not oppressing the people.  They are free to go about their daily lives.  She's also a southerner. 

Why would southerners flock to Jon and Dany?  If I'm a southerner, I'm quite happy not to be sent north to fight and die.  Jon is a northerner and Dany is a foreigner and they are both Targaryens.  There is no desire to be ruled by Targaryens again after the Mad King.  Refer to how the threat of Dany, the Unsullied and Dothraki was used to turn the Tarlys against the Tyrells who they were pledged to.
Even with the Golden Company, Cersei doesn't have the army to control the south, let alone the north once that army marches back down south.  Remember the Golden Company is 20,000 troops, but a million people live in Kings Landing alone.  She can't keep the peace without the support of the other great houses (or whatever is left of them) and she absolutely needs the resources of High Garden, Dorne, etc. to survive and pay back the Iron Bank, but she doesn't have the forces to keep those lands without the support of those people and their lords, and she won't get it because she is a tyrant.  Tyrants keep power when they have the military force to keep power, Cersei quite simply doesn't have that and she never will.  It is only a matter of time for her.  Her treachery might buy her a bit more time, but the end game is the same, and not just because this a fantasy, because Martin could easily end this series with a tyrant on the throne, it is just that Cersei isn't the right tyrant.  Frankly, I wouldn't be overly surprised if there is a tyrant on the thrown at the end.  I just think it would be far more like to be Dany, as I can totally see her going full on villain.  She has that cold viciousness that Cersei does and she could easily be triggered into a downward spiral (you know if her dragons die, Jon, Jorah, Tyrion, etc. all die as well).  She will still defeat Cersei though because she will be much better positioned to do so with the better trained forces and the full support of the north if she leads the defeat of the Night King (she also would more than likely have the 3 Eyed Raven on her side).  That said, I believe Dany dies and Jon ends up on the thrown after he defeats Cersei.  As this has always been his story and that of his "siblings".  Everyone else is just filler to get the story to the end point.
A couple thousand gold cloaks have kept order in King's landing.  Do you see any rioting in King's landing?  All that food in High Garden got to King's landing.  Popular uprising don't occur that often and when they do they are usually quelled rather easily by brutal Tyrants.  Dorne and High Garden forces have already been defeated.  The Lannisters have by the best and largest military forces in the South.  There is practically no one left in the South to challenge her.  Only the Knights of the Vale really remain.  As far as leaders take away Jon and Dany and there's no one left to lead a revolt.  Cersei already paid off a huge debt to the Iron Bank.  If she wins, she'd have no problem paying off the debt for the Gold Company. 

You ignore that the North is much less populated than the South and that much of their fighting men have already been killed.  When Jon fought Ramsey Bolton, he had 2000 men including wildings and Ramsey had 5000.  Those were all Northern men on both sides that got slaughtered and only the Knights of the Vale saved Jon from his own stupidity.  Assuming Jon and Dany defeat the dead, many of their remaining forces are going to be killed doing so.   Take away the dragons and Cersei would have a far superior hand.  Heck if Dany and Jon are stupid enough to keep traveling by ship Euron would wipe them out. 

Another significant advantage Cersei has is Qyburn and his little birds.  They'd learn of any plots against Cersei before they were able to become a real threat.
the gold cloaks kept the peace when the south was all behind one ruler and no other legitimate threats to the throne existed i..e. when the tyrant had all the power.  The golden company is an army of mercenaries those aren't reliable for anything. They will leave as soon as it looks like they will die.  You can only buy support for so long.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1226 on: August 30, 2017, 06:46:07 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I'm torn on season 7. On one hand, it's great to finally see the storylines converge and the focus shift towards the real conflict, but on the other hand, this whole season feels a lot more "TV-ish".

So much fan-service, so much plot armor. I'm not sure why they needed to cut the number of episodes to seven if they then go and rush through most of the content. The series is still great, but this season didnt't feel nearly as good as previous ones.

On the bright side, I'm 100% sure the final two books will be a lot different to the show. So much stuff we see now just doesn't make any sense in the context of the books.
Budget, I imagine?


lol

Thanks, Captain Obvious.   :laugh:

I just don't see a big diference between 2 seasons at 10 and 3 seasons at 7 episodes. Considering how much content they cut from the books, and that the stuff I'm missing is the walking & talking, which doesn't cost that much, I'm not sure it's a budgetary issue.

Totally agree.  Most of what is missing are the dialogue and character interaction scenes anyway.  I can appreciate that they expedited the stories once the character's backstories were fully developed, but this season we would have benefited from another 3 hours (3 episodes worth, spread out) of how those characters interact. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1227 on: August 30, 2017, 07:38:33 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'm not sure why they needed to cut the number of episodes to seven if they then go and rush through most of the content. The series is still great, but this season didnt't feel nearly as good as previous ones.

Money, they pay by the episode.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1228 on: August 30, 2017, 08:02:05 AM »

Offline RLewis35

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Quote
I'm not sure why they needed to cut the number of episodes to seven if they then go and rush through most of the content. The series is still great, but this season didnt't feel nearly as good as previous ones.

Money, they pay by the episode.

I don't know about that.  The five highest paid actors were paid 1.1M per episode this season instead of the 500k per episode they were paid last season.  Everyone was well aware season 7 would only be 7 episodes when these negotiations occurred.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1229 on: August 30, 2017, 08:10:07 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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lol

Thanks, Captain Obvious.   :laugh:

I just don't see a big diference between 2 seasons at 10 and 3 seasons at 7 episodes. Considering how much content they cut from the books, and that the stuff I'm missing is the walking & talking, which doesn't cost that much, I'm not sure it's a budgetary issue.

Totally agree.  Most of what is missing are the dialogue and character interaction scenes anyway.  I can appreciate that they expedited the stories once the character's backstories were fully developed, but this season we would have benefited from another 3 hours (3 episodes worth, spread out) of how those characters interact.
Fine, the extra footage was easy to shoot but they just randomly decided to make the series shorter because there's no benefit to adding depth to the story even when all the material is readily available. Better?
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