Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 413101 times)

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #990 on: June 29, 2016, 11:07:26 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
I'm still betting on King Tyrion and Queen Sansa :P Come on, just three people need to die for this to happen -- and there's a prophecy out on one of them already.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #991 on: June 29, 2016, 11:12:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
Dany's claim is weaker, but her power is greater. 

I don't think Sansa has any real desire to be the ruler.  Married to the ruler, probably, but actually the ruler I don't think so.  I also think she would be fine living in Winterfell. 

And the thing about Littlefinger and the Vale, is he isn't Lord of the Vale, that would be Sansa Cousin Robin.  Littlefinger has custody of him, though did send him to live elsewhere, and Littlefinger was made Lord of Harrenhal, which he then used that title to marry Lysa Arryn (Tully), but his power is more from scheming than actual power or earned power.  I can't see a scenario where Littlefinger ends up on the throne because no one would really follow him in that way.  He isn't from a noble family or noble birth, he doesn't have the love and support of his men, and he really doesn't have an army (the Knights of the Vale aren't his army).  I certainly could see him ending up Lord of a major house and maybe even a Warden of a region, but he will never sit on the Throne.  He just doesn't have the power or support for that, even if he marries Sansa Stark.  It just won't happen.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #992 on: June 29, 2016, 11:14:00 AM »

Offline Robb

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #993 on: June 29, 2016, 11:16:48 AM »

Offline Robb

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
Dany's claim is weaker, but her power is greater. 

I don't think Sansa has any real desire to be the ruler.  Married to the ruler, probably, but actually the ruler I don't think so.  I also think she would be fine living in Winterfell. 

And the thing about Littlefinger and the Vale, is he isn't Lord of the Vale, that would be Sansa Cousin Robin.  Littlefinger has custody of him, though did send him to live elsewhere, and Littlefinger was made Lord of Harrenhal, which he then used that title to marry Lysa Arryn (Tully), but his power is more from scheming than actual power or earned power.  I can't see a scenario where Littlefinger ends up on the throne because no one would really follow him in that way.  He isn't from a noble family or noble birth, he doesn't have the love and support of his men, and he really doesn't have an army (the Knights of the Vale aren't his army).  I certainly could see him ending up Lord of a major house and maybe even a Warden of a region, but he will never sit on the Throne.  He just doesn't have the power or support for that, even if he marries Sansa Stark.  It just won't happen.

Strongly foreshadowed that Sansa will make a play somehow here in the future maybe for the North, maybe just against Jon. Canonically she had to time for him and treated him as such. LF is playing right into that.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #994 on: June 29, 2016, 11:31:41 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
I'm still betting on King Tyrion and Queen Sansa :P Come on, just three people need to die for this to happen -- and there's a prophecy out on one of them already.
Asha Greyjoy + Tyrion is more likely maybe you get King of the Iron and gold Western lands? That is an actualy theory going around in some fan circles that Asha and Tyrion hook up will happen not the whole king thing just the couple.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #995 on: June 29, 2016, 11:39:55 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
I'm still betting on King Tyrion and Queen Sansa :P Come on, just three people need to die for this to happen -- and there's a prophecy out on one of them already.
Asha Greyjoy + Tyrion is more likely maybe you get King of the Iron and gold Western lands? That is an actualy theory going around in some fan circles that Asha and Tyrion hook up will happen not the whole king thing just the couple.
I thought Yara liked girls.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #996 on: June 29, 2016, 11:42:12 AM »

Offline Csfan1984

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In "After the Thrones" they brought up the small possibility that Jon is actually the son of the Mad King... he could have had his way with Lyanna at some point.  Maybe that is what lead to Rheagar "abducting"/"taking her away" from King's Landing.  More likely he's the son of Rheagar, though... they were prob in love and ran away together.

A good question to ask though... was Jon legitimized before birth?  Maybe Rheagar and Lyanna were wed?  It probably doesn't matter, though given that people are already calling Jon a King.

Will Dany eventually get with her nephew/half-brother?
If he was Mad King's Son that would weaken his claim. In Westros the line of succession follows the first son. So in Jon's case if Prince Rhaegar took a second wife and had a son and only that male surives from him that child would be first in line before Dany. Also since Jon is a pure Nobel that would cancel the not wed parents knock based on Roberts son Edric Storm in book. Renly and Stannis both mention Edric as a threat and hostage against the other. It's believed that if a male noble blooded from the 1st born son seeks succession it is valid if the first son has no other children and 1st son's siblings have no children. This is so the royal blood line continues. So Jon will have a strong claim against Dany.

Benioff and Weiss basically confirmed Rhaegar as dad on the Making of Game of Thrones blog.

Also, Dany has the much stronger claim since she has a gigantic army and dragons. That's probably going to be the support she needs. Jon is concerned with protecting the realm and will bend the knee...Sansa...maybe not so much.
I'm still betting on King Tyrion and Queen Sansa :P Come on, just three people need to die for this to happen -- and there's a prophecy out on one of them already.
Asha Greyjoy + Tyrion is more likely maybe you get King of the Iron and gold Western lands? That is an actualy theory going around in some fan circles that Asha and Tyrion hook up will happen not the whole king thing just the couple.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #997 on: June 29, 2016, 01:08:02 PM »

Offline Casperian

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Strongly foreshadowed that Sansa will make a play somehow here in the future maybe for the North, maybe just against Jon. Canonically she had to time for him and treated him as such. LF is playing right into that.

If you're referring to the look she gave Littlefinger when the houses of the north declared Jon King, I don't think that's true. That look implied to me that Sansa realized Littlefinger would now be a threat to Jon. LF openly admitted that everything he did was to make the picture of him and Sansa on the Iron Throne come true, when everyone still assumed the houses of the north would not follow a Edited for profanity.  Please do not do it again.. Now that they do, Jon has become a roadblock for Littlefinger.

Reminds me of a scene two weeks ago, when Jaime threatened to put Edmure Tully's wife and their baby in a catapult, which most people interpreted as a sign of Jaime's cruelty, when it was obvious this was just part of his scaretactic to end this conflict as quick and peacefully as possible.

However, I think it is possible Tyrion and Sansa could end up on the Iron Throne. After Westerosi law, they're still married, and Dany told Dario she needed a person she could trust in Essos when she sits on the Iron Throne. It is possible that she wins the war and decides life in Westeros isn't what she wants, installs Tyrion as King, and moves back to Essos.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #998 on: June 29, 2016, 01:50:28 PM »

Offline Robb

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Strongly foreshadowed that Sansa will make a play somehow here in the future maybe for the North, maybe just against Jon. Canonically she had to time for him and treated him as such. LF is playing right into that.

If you're referring to the look she gave Littlefinger when the houses of the north declared Jon King, I don't think that's true. That look implied to me that Sansa realized Littlefinger would now be a threat to Jon. LF openly admitted that everything he did was to make the picture of him and Sansa on the Iron Throne come true, when everyone still assumed the houses of the north would not follow a ****. Now that they do, Jon has become a roadblock for Littlefinger.

Reminds me of a scene two weeks ago, when Jaime threatened to put Edmure Tully's wife and their baby in a catapult, which most people interpreted as a sign of Jaime's cruelty, when it was obvious this was just part of his scaretactic to end this conflict as quick and peacefully as possible.

However, I think it is possible Tyrion and Sansa could end up on the Iron Throne. After Westerosi law, they're still married, and Dany told Dario she needed a person she could trust in Essos when she sits on the Iron Throne. It is possible that she wins the war and decides life in Westeros isn't what she wants, installs Tyrion as King, and moves back to Essos.

If we're dealing with implication then clearly, it's just conjecture and there is just as much evidence that Sansa will do what she wants and is considering all of her options. There is evidence that she doesn't particularly care for Jon and wants to play things close to her own vest. She's learning how to play the game and getting LF to tell her exactly what he wants shows that she has a good advantage here.

All of this is to say that Sansa has the chance to play a much more problematic role in the unification of Westeros than Jon when Dany arrives. I don't think that could be disputed.

EDIT:

Also, with Edmure, we see that scene in the books so we know what Jaime is thinking when that happens. That's not the case with Sansa/LF, so it's doubly difficult to make a connection there, I think.  We know from the book that he doesn't want to have to do it.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2016, 01:57:57 PM by Robb »
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #999 on: June 29, 2016, 01:55:57 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Strongly foreshadowed that Sansa will make a play somehow here in the future maybe for the North, maybe just against Jon. Canonically she had to time for him and treated him as such. LF is playing right into that.

If you're referring to the look she gave Littlefinger when the houses of the north declared Jon King, I don't think that's true. That look implied to me that Sansa realized Littlefinger would now be a threat to Jon. LF openly admitted that everything he did was to make the picture of him and Sansa on the Iron Throne come true, when everyone still assumed the houses of the north would not follow a ****. Now that they do, Jon has become a roadblock for Littlefinger.

Reminds me of a scene two weeks ago, when Jaime threatened to put Edmure Tully's wife and their baby in a catapult, which most people interpreted as a sign of Jaime's cruelty, when it was obvious this was just part of his scaretactic to end this conflict as quick and peacefully as possible.

However, I think it is possible Tyrion and Sansa could end up on the Iron Throne. After Westerosi law, they're still married, and Dany told Dario she needed a person she could trust in Essos when she sits on the Iron Throne. It is possible that she wins the war and decides life in Westeros isn't what she wants, installs Tyrion as King, and moves back to Essos.

If we're dealing with implication then clearly, it's just conjecture and there is just as much evidence that Sansa will do what she wants and is considering all of her options. There is evidence that she doesn't particularly care for Jon and wants to play things close to her own vest. She's learning how to play the game and getting LF to tell her exactly what he wants shows that she has a good advantage here.

All of this is to say that Sansa has the chance to play a much more problematic role in the unification of Westeros than Jon when Dany arrives. I don't think that could be disputed.
Of course it could be disputed.  Sansa is a woman who doesn't have an army supporting her.  She has one man who wants her hand in marriage that has a borrowed army.  Sansa has been relegated to second fiddle by her "half brother".  Once Jon's true parentage comes out and Bran returns, Sansa will be relegated even further down the totem pole as she won't even be the true heir to Winterfell anymore (that would be Bran) and Jon will have the strongest claim to the throne of anyone (if they both live, Jon will probably marry Dany thus removing all opposition to his claim). 
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1000 on: July 03, 2016, 12:56:22 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen/photos/a.257870984324554.51384.257866377658348/883425635102416/?type=3&theater

So here's something that the finale might have changed.

Remember the exchange between young Cersei and Maggie the Frog (the Fortune Teller)?

"But I will be Queen?"

"Oh, yes. You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

So, previously everyone thought that this was referring to Margaery, but now that she's ACTUALLY the ruling queen, perhaps it's referring to Daenerys. Yeah, I like that theory.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1001 on: July 03, 2016, 01:28:33 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen/photos/a.257870984324554.51384.257866377658348/883425635102416/?type=3&theater

So here's something that the finale might have changed.

Remember the exchange between young Cersei and Maggie the Frog (the Fortune Teller)?

"But I will be Queen?"

"Oh, yes. You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

So, previously everyone thought that this was referring to Margaery, but now that she's ACTUALLY the ruling queen, perhaps it's referring to Daenerys. Yeah, I like that theory.
Daenerys is most likely but it could also be Sansa.  In some ways that would be more interesting considering the history between Cersei and Santa.   And Cersei did remark often on Sansa's beauty. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1002 on: July 03, 2016, 02:10:59 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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https://www.facebook.com/DaenerysTargaryenTheQueen/photos/a.257870984324554.51384.257866377658348/883425635102416/?type=3&theater

So here's something that the finale might have changed.

Remember the exchange between young Cersei and Maggie the Frog (the Fortune Teller)?

"But I will be Queen?"

"Oh, yes. You'll be queen. For a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear."

So, previously everyone thought that this was referring to Margaery, but now that she's ACTUALLY the ruling queen, perhaps it's referring to Daenerys. Yeah, I like that theory.
Daenerys is most likely but it could also be Sansa.  In some ways that would be more interesting considering the history between Cersei and Santa.   And Cersei did remark often on Sansa's beauty.
Could be pretty much any female protagonist short of Olena Tyrell.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1003 on: July 03, 2016, 03:21:21 AM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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Strongly foreshadowed that Sansa will make a play somehow here in the future maybe for the North, maybe just against Jon. Canonically she had to time for him and treated him as such. LF is playing right into that.

If you're referring to the look she gave Littlefinger when the houses of the north declared Jon King, I don't think that's true. That look implied to me that Sansa realized Littlefinger would now be a threat to Jon. LF openly admitted that everything he did was to make the picture of him and Sansa on the Iron Throne come true, when everyone still assumed the houses of the north would not follow a ****. Now that they do, Jon has become a roadblock for Littlefinger.

Reminds me of a scene two weeks ago, when Jaime threatened to put Edmure Tully's wife and their baby in a catapult, which most people interpreted as a sign of Jaime's cruelty, when it was obvious this was just part of his scaretactic to end this conflict as quick and peacefully as possible.

However, I think it is possible Tyrion and Sansa could end up on the Iron Throne. After Westerosi law, they're still married, and Dany told Dario she needed a person she could trust in Essos when she sits on the Iron Throne. It is possible that she wins the war and decides life in Westeros isn't what she wants, installs Tyrion as King, and moves back to Essos.

If we're dealing with implication then clearly, it's just conjecture and there is just as much evidence that Sansa will do what she wants and is considering all of her options. There is evidence that she doesn't particularly care for Jon and wants to play things close to her own vest. She's learning how to play the game and getting LF to tell her exactly what he wants shows that she has a good advantage here.

All of this is to say that Sansa has the chance to play a much more problematic role in the unification of Westeros than Jon when Dany arrives. I don't think that could be disputed.
Of course it could be disputed.  Sansa is a woman who doesn't have an army supporting her.  She has one man who wants her hand in marriage that has a borrowed army.  Sansa has been relegated to second fiddle by her "half brother".  Once Jon's true parentage comes out and Bran returns, Sansa will be relegated even further down the totem pole as she won't even be the true heir to Winterfell anymore (that would be Bran) and Jon will have the strongest claim to the throne of anyone (if they both live, Jon will probably marry Dany thus removing all opposition to his claim).
Claims to the throne don't mean much.  It's about power and cunning.  Jon doesn't have much of an army left and he's got the Stark stupidity gene.  In any case, I expect his attention will turn northward.  Bran is the three eyed raven now.  He's not going to be the Lord of Winterfell.  Littlefinger has already raised his station greatly through his scheming but isn't satisfied and Sansa isn't going to accept being relegated to the background.  I expect them to work together.  Riverrun and the Twins seem ripe for the taking. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #1004 on: July 03, 2016, 04:40:12 AM »

Offline meangreenmachine

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Just finished catching up on the latest season. As soon as the Mountain stopped Tommen from leaving his chamber and we cut to a roomful of most every one of Cersei's enemies, I connected the dots on the "rumor" about there being "much more." I was a bit disgusted with myself for having the imagination to envision what Cersei planned, but it was really her only way to survive (ruthlessly as ever). I did not expect Tommen to commit suicide, but obviously it was brilliant writing. The naive boy simultaneously lost the love of his life and realized that his mother is the most ruthless monster in Westeros. I cannot wait for Cersei to get what she deserves and it will be all the more poetic seeing her downfall while she sits on the Throne.

I think the true players of the Game of Thrones are Varys and Littlefinger. By the end, it will be clear the show has practically been a game of chess between these two. I expect one or both will have their moment on the Throne before it ends (although I fully expect the show to end with Jon Snow stopping the White Walkers with Bran warging the dragons after they lose their mother to a treacherous betrayal by Varys). Varys is obviously playing Dany and his southern allies whereas Littlefinger has some sort of scheme planned in the North. I expect to be shocked and disgusted by both Varys and Littlefinger next season. Do we really have to wait another year or two to see how it all ends?
« Last Edit: July 03, 2016, 04:51:31 AM by meangreenmachine »