Author Topic: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)  (Read 413064 times)

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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #435 on: June 01, 2015, 02:29:55 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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SPOILER ALERT....







So it seems it's a safe bet now that they're going with the story of Jon Snow being a Rhaegar Targaryen's son?
I've only seen the show.  I haven't read the books, but I hear the show is more or less caught up.  If someone can't tell at this point who Jon's parents are, they simply haven't been paying attention to the show.  THey drop elephant-sized hints constantly... especially this season.

IMO, he's the main character on the show and everything else is just secondary.  Credit GRR Martin for the way he's crafted this story... it's full of misdirection, razzle dazzle and red herrings, but it's clear to me that the main arc of the story is Jon's.   Every character we peak at in this world has some connection to Jon's arc.  They serve a purpose in relation to Jon.   You can't say that for any other character.  If Daenarys dies, it doesn't at all impact the overall arc of the show.  If Jon dies... well... that's a different story.  It's like killing off Luke Skywalker in the second movie before he becomes a Jedi and having the third Star Wars movie end with Lando as the savior of the universe.  There's certain conventions GRR Martin can ignore, but there's others that would just be weak storytelling.  You can't make Jon's birth the entire reason we start peaking into the universe (why not earlier with the Mad King?) and then have it finish at an arbitrary point.  Purely from a storytelling perspective, I see the only three ending options as follows:

#1 - Whitewalkers Kill everyone... that's a garbage ending

#2 - Someone random like littlefinger takes the throne... that's a hacky/arbitrary ending and arguably there's no reason at all to end it there.  Ending it with littlefinger is akin to ending it with Tommen as king.  What difference does it make?

#3 - Jon reaches his inevitable destiny.   Wraps up the story arc cleanly.  He has all the credentials:  King's blood, the respect of the North, a moral upbringing, and years of service as Lord High commander earning his chops as a leader, and presumably... eventually dragons.  That basically lays out every aspect of the show we have focused on.  It all serves as providing more context for Jon's arc.   

Just my opinion.  I know some people think there will be happy ending involving Daenarys and Jon, but despite GRR Martin's penchant for flying fast and loose with the incest, I don't think we'll see Jon ending up with his Auntie.   If she dies, she still serves an key part of Jon's story... as her main purpose is to provide context for Jon's true lineage... and introduce Dragons into the mix.   Something tells me Dragons will gravitate towards Jon... and they will likely be a key part of the war against the White Walkers... what with Dragon glass and the process for making valaryian steel and all...   If Jon doesn't eventually tame that big nasty black dragon and ride it into glory, I'll be a bit surprised.

Then again, there's also the possibility the crippled Stark avatars into some dragons at some point.  Kid has to have some purpose, right?

I know GRR Martin has broken some conventions, but there's others you can't break.  Not because "the man" forces us to think inside the box... because there are certain laws of storytelling that you have to adhere to.  If you show a gun sitting on a nightstand, you at some point need to show the gun being used or it needs to serve a very important purpose in establishing something about your character.   If you don't use the gun at some point nobody will say, "oh what a visionary... he added arbitrary random elements into his story"... they'll say, "that was hacky.  Why did you waste my time by showing me the gun?".   Everything in this story serve some purpose in context with Jon's arc.



Who knows, though.  Great show.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 02:49:03 PM by LarBrd33 »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #436 on: June 01, 2015, 03:29:27 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I've only seen the show.  I haven't read the books, but I hear the show is more or less caught up.  If someone can't tell at this point who Jon's parents are, they simply haven't been paying attention to the show.  THey drop elephant-sized hints constantly... especially this season.
I think that by now the HBO series is pretty much ahead of the books.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #437 on: June 01, 2015, 03:44:00 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I've only seen the show.  I haven't read the books, but I hear the show is more or less caught up.  If someone can't tell at this point who Jon's parents are, they simply haven't been paying attention to the show.  THey drop elephant-sized hints constantly... especially this season.
I think that by now the HBO series is pretty much ahead of the books.
They are, but things happened in the books that haven't happened on the show with characters that in the same locations.  Now maybe the show just skips those things, but maybe not.  So maybe the show is both ahead and behind all at the same time.  Now wouldn't that be something.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #438 on: June 01, 2015, 03:55:29 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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I've only seen the show.  I haven't read the books, but I hear the show is more or less caught up.  If someone can't tell at this point who Jon's parents are, they simply haven't been paying attention to the show.  THey drop elephant-sized hints constantly... especially this season.
I think that by now the HBO series is pretty much ahead of the books.
They are, but things happened in the books that haven't happened on the show with characters that in the same locations.  Now maybe the show just skips those things, but maybe not.  So maybe the show is both ahead and behind all at the same time.  Now wouldn't that be something.
I heard/read somewhere (this/last week's Inside the Episode?) that Martin has pretty much informed the HBO crew how the books are going to end, so they're both heading towards the same conclusion but may take slightly different routes.

For what it's worth, Kit Harrington is under contract for 2 more seasons, so Jon Snow ain't dying any time soon ;D
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 04:11:11 PM by kozlodoev »
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #439 on: June 01, 2015, 06:25:03 PM »

Offline Redz

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They definitely took some shortcuts from the book with Tyrion's journey to Daenarys.  I was really looking forward to him being a clown.   

Yup

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #440 on: June 02, 2015, 12:10:46 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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Dang, what an excellent episode. The White Walkers are just an excellent nemesis, and the show has worked them in perfectly by not overdoing them. When the White King raised all of the slaughtered from the dead I was like...



SPOILERS QUESTION:



As someone who has also only watched the show (I read the first book, but I've been burnt out on leisure reading from my studies. And I thoroughly enjoy film adaptations more.), I'm unsure what Jon being unaffected by the White Walkers means for validating his Targaryen bloodline. Is it the eventual "ice vs. fire" clash? Did the Targaryens have some sort of resistance to the White Walkers? When I was watching the show, I really just thought it meant his sword that he got from Mormont was made of dragonglass.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #441 on: June 02, 2015, 02:18:11 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Dang, what an excellent episode. The White Walkers are just an excellent nemesis, and the show has worked them in perfectly by not overdoing them. When the White King raised all of the slaughtered from the dead I was like...



SPOILERS QUESTION:



As someone who has also only watched the show (I read the first book, but I've been burnt out on leisure reading from my studies. And I thoroughly enjoy film adaptations more.), I'm unsure what Jon being unaffected by the White Walkers means for validating his Targaryen bloodline. Is it the eventual "ice vs. fire" clash? Did the Targaryens have some sort of resistance to the White Walkers? When I was watching the show, I really just thought it meant his sword that he got from Mormont was made of dragonglass.
Pretty sure it was just that his sword is valeryan steel. It was forged by dragons.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #442 on: June 02, 2015, 02:20:08 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
I'm unsure what Jon being unaffected by the White Walkers means for validating his Targaryen bloodline. Is it the eventual "ice vs. fire" clash? Did the Targaryens have some sort of resistance to the White Walkers?

Where do you get that from?  No it almost killed him, the sword was valeryan which some think may be dragonsteel.  His sword is magic and can affect them. 

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #443 on: June 02, 2015, 06:15:47 AM »

Offline ederson

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I heard/read somewhere (this/last week's Inside the Episode?) that Martin has pretty much informed the HBO crew how the books are going to end, so they're both heading towards the same conclusion but may take slightly different routes.

I think Martis himself has said it. The producers know about the direction of the books (if not the ending) but i think they haven`t ruled out a different ending .....


Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #444 on: June 02, 2015, 07:57:52 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I heard/read somewhere (this/last week's Inside the Episode?) that Martin has pretty much informed the HBO crew how the books are going to end, so they're both heading towards the same conclusion but may take slightly different routes.

I think Martis himself has said it. The producers know about the direction of the books (if not the ending) but i think they haven`t ruled out a different ending .....
They know the ending and have said it end in roughly the same way.  However, because they know the end they can take a lot of liberties in the show i.e. change people's locations, eliminate people from the books, etc.
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Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #445 on: June 02, 2015, 09:10:29 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Just watched the episode last night.  HOLY MASKED PROFANITY THAT LAST SEQUENCE!  :o :o

You could watch that sequence without ever having seen the show and it'd be an amazing short zombie film in its own right.  Very well-made, and totally redeems what's been kinda a lackluster season so far. 

...and yeah, Jon wasn't immune to the White Walker, though it sure took its sweet time killing him.  It was the sword.  Supposedly Valyrian steel is special because it's forged by dragon fire, which fits with why it worked. 

Some Internet speculation that the Walker he killed was actually Benjen; I seriously doubt they'd do that without identifying him somehow, but the Night's Watch type outfit wasn't a coincidence I think. 


Also, maybe it's just because it's my pet theory, but Danaerys' "break the wheel" speech seemed like another major hint that there won't be an Iron Throne to vie for at the end of the series.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 09:19:36 AM by foulweatherfan »

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #446 on: June 02, 2015, 11:51:47 AM »

Offline cons

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Ok I'll admit my stupidity because I am intrigued. I've watched the whole show. How is it we think jons parents aren't edd stark and an unknown woman. I get that he seems like superman but what leads people to think he's the son of a targaryean instead? I'm not following that. Please enlighten me. ????

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #447 on: June 02, 2015, 12:20:38 PM »

Offline Soytiz

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Hope you guys enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4

Funny stuff.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #448 on: June 02, 2015, 12:23:43 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Ok I'll admit my stupidity because I am intrigued. I've watched the whole show. How is it we think jons parents aren't edd stark and an unknown woman. I get that he seems like superman but what leads people to think he's the son of a targaryean instead? I'm not following that. Please enlighten me. ????

There have been some strong hints dropped that Rhaegar Targaryen (the Mad King's oldest son) wasn't a horrible person who kidnapped and raped Ned Stark's sister (the official story), but was a good guy who fell in love with Lyanna, and they eloped together. 

Where people connect the dots to Jon Snow mainly comes from a scene in the books - after Ned gets speared in the knee, he's hallucinating and remembering rescuing his sister at the end of the war.  She's in a tower, guarded by Kingsguard, on a "bed of blood".  She makes Ned promise her...something, which is generally inferred to mean she died during childbirth and makes Ned promise to take care of her baby and lie about where it came from (since Robert would've had any Targaryen child killed, especially one that caused the death of the woman he loved).

It's not nearly as strongly hinted on the show as people tend to claim it is - if you weren't familiar with all the book speculation it's hard, but not impossible to draw that conclusion.  But it makes a ton of sense story-wise, and fits with Ned's character - he loved his sister so much he was willing to be dishonored by "his b astard" to keep his word and protect her only child.

Re: A Game of Thrones (contains spoilers)
« Reply #449 on: June 02, 2015, 12:48:02 PM »

Offline jpotter33

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Hope you guys enjoy this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BabsgCQhpu4

Funny stuff.

Haha TP! That was great. "I'm just making small-talk!"