Author Topic: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox  (Read 28946 times)

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Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #60 on: December 05, 2010, 03:50:59 PM »

Offline Toine43

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Not sure why (if you read some Sox forums) people are looking at the reports coming out and bashing management. It's like everyone is looking for a reason to jump on Theo. How can people have such angry reactions when we don't even know what happened yet? The deal will still probably get done. If we actually find out that it didn't, then in that case everyone has the right to be angry.


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Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #61 on: December 05, 2010, 03:53:37 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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It seems that I was the lone voice of restrain on this board  in seeing this coming.  I applaud the Sox for not getting carried away.  They set it up so that they had a solid plan B in that they can sign Beltre.  That is smart negotiating.  It gave them leverage.  None of us know what the numbers are but chances are they were steep.

Unfortunately, AG has no reason to back down on his position (what ever it is).  He is happy to play in SD another year and he believes he will get everything he wants from someone in a year.  I guess there is some advantage to getting it done now but that is not all that much reason for him not to just wait.

This may not be over but I suspect it is.  They will now sign Beltre and trade for or sign an outfielder/relievers.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #62 on: December 05, 2010, 04:33:32 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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I don't know if people are jumping on Theo so much as on the owners paying mega bucks for a soccer team that apparently is carrying tons of debt and then putting a budget on the Sox.

I could definitely see why Theo would hold to a budgetary line; I just think that by constantly settling for B options, you usually end up wasting more money in the form of dead weight than just biting the bullet and ponying up the money for A talent right away.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like those A guys making 25 mil a year often end up making the team wish they were only paying the guy 20 million for the last 3 years of the contract, but the guys you sign for 20 million a year you wish you were paying 10 million.

I'd rather have that 25 million dollar guy performing like a 20 million dollar guy and only have 15 million in the budget for another player than have two 20 million dollar players each playing like 10 million dollar players and still not having any budget left over.

Not very well worded, but does that make sense?

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2010, 04:50:59 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I really don't like the Red Sox.  God...just when you think they're gonna finally make a great move and play smart and mean like the Yanks, they go back to this money saving bridge year bull-crap.

Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

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Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #64 on: December 05, 2010, 05:02:41 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I don't know if people are jumping on Theo so much as on the owners paying mega bucks for a soccer team that apparently is carrying tons of debt and then putting a budget on the Sox.

I could definitely see why Theo would hold to a budgetary line; I just think that by constantly settling for B options, you usually end up wasting more money in the form of dead weight than just biting the bullet and ponying up the money for A talent right away.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it sure seems like those A guys making 25 mil a year often end up making the team wish they were only paying the guy 20 million for the last 3 years of the contract, but the guys you sign for 20 million a year you wish you were paying 10 million.

I'd rather have that 25 million dollar guy performing like a 20 million dollar guy and only have 15 million in the budget for another player than have two 20 million dollar players each playing like 10 million dollar players and still not having any budget left over.

Not very well worded, but does that make sense?

This totally makes sense...in professional sports you can't make 2 nickels and a dime = a quarter, or even two nickels = a dime.

You have to pay to get the best players, and the best players are worth more than a few decent-to-good ones.



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"@SBerthiaumeESPN Werth, arguably, better fit for Boston than Crawford. Werth to Nats, Gonzalez deal perhaps off. Today could be a train wreck for Red Sox."
« Last Edit: December 05, 2010, 05:08:58 PM by PosImpos »
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

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Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #65 on: December 05, 2010, 05:34:20 PM »

Offline dpaps

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People are crazy for hating on the Red Sox. Year in, year out, ownership spends money and puts together a great team. Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball. Last year was a fluke because of the ABSURD amount of injuries that hit the team. With reasonable health, last year's team would have made the playoffs.

If Agon's deal doesn't get done, he must have been asking for something ridiculous, because everyone knows how much Theo covets him.

Keep the faith.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #66 on: December 05, 2010, 05:42:03 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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People are crazy for hating on the Red Sox. Year in, year out, ownership spends money and puts together a great team. Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball. Last year was a fluke because of the ABSURD amount of injuries that hit the team. With reasonable health, last year's team would have made the playoffs.

If Agon's deal doesn't get done, he must have been asking for something ridiculous, because everyone knows how much Theo covets him.

Keep the faith.

Reportedly he was asking for Texiera money, and there seemed to be agreement in the media that Texiera money is what he could reasonably expect to get from some other team next winter.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

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- Doc Rivers

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #67 on: December 05, 2010, 06:01:27 PM »

Offline dpaps

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People are crazy for hating on the Red Sox. Year in, year out, ownership spends money and puts together a great team. Theo is one of the best GMs in baseball. Last year was a fluke because of the ABSURD amount of injuries that hit the team. With reasonable health, last year's team would have made the playoffs.

If Agon's deal doesn't get done, he must have been asking for something ridiculous, because everyone knows how much Theo covets him.

Keep the faith.

Reportedly he was asking for Texiera money, and there seemed to be agreement in the media that Texiera money is what he could reasonably expect to get from some other team next winter.


Again though, no one on this board knows exactly whats going on behind the scenes. Theo has earned my trust on such matters. If he decided that Agon wasn't worth the three prospects and the contract he wants, Theo knows better than any of us do. Maybe Agon wanted a 10 year deal or something, and the Sox just aren't comfortable with the length. Theo wouldn't throw away this deal unless he had good reason to.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #68 on: December 05, 2010, 06:14:57 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I really don't like the Red Sox.  God...just when you think they're gonna finally make a great move and play smart and mean like the Yanks, they go back to this money saving bridge year bull-crap.
"Play smart and mean like the Yanks"?

I don't get it. When the Red Sox strategy won the world series for you guys, were the Yanks smart for paying way more than everyone else to watch the world series from the golf clubhouse?

It is easy for fans to think that a "great move" is paying ridiculous money for a top player, but a truly great move is making sure you get performance proportional to your spending team-wide.

Gonzalez agent is playing hardball in the belief that he will get a big payday next season. If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #69 on: December 05, 2010, 06:21:11 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

At the same time, you also have to acknowledge that a player asking for market value isn't unreasonable.  If the reports of Gonzalez wanting Tex money are accurate, then that's a fair deal (especially in light of the Werth signing). 


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Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #70 on: December 05, 2010, 06:36:42 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

At the same time, you also have to acknowledge that a player asking for market value isn't unreasonable.  If the reports of Gonzalez wanting Tex money are accurate, then that's a fair deal (especially in light of the Werth signing).  
I'm a believer in paying players based on what they are worth to you, not based on what someone else got or what the Yankees were willing to pay. Otherwise, the agents for every pitcher will start negotiations with Barry Zito's contract.

Market value is what other teams are willing to pay for him, not what the Yankees paid for Tex.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2010, 06:53:47 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

At the same time, you also have to acknowledge that a player asking for market value isn't unreasonable.  If the reports of Gonzalez wanting Tex money are accurate, then that's a fair deal (especially in light of the Werth signing).  
I'm a believer in paying players based on what they are worth to you, not based on what someone else got or what the Yankees were willing to pay. Otherwise, the agents for every pitcher will start negotiations with Barry Zito's contract.

Market value is what other teams are willing to pay for him, not what the Yankees paid for Tex.

and what's wrong with overpaying him a little? There is no hard salary cap so who cares, it's not our money. Ticket prices will be high either way, so put out a team that can actually contend. They have been after this guy for two years, had the perfect deal in place, and let it go for an extra contract year and/or a few million?  Doesn't make any sense to me. Then again, this is the team that also lost Arod and Texiera at the last minute, so not surprising either. If they don't put out a contending team though, I'm not paying a cent to see them next year.

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #72 on: December 05, 2010, 06:58:18 PM »

Offline footey

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Sox will have no choice but to meet his demands. They lost out on Werth and probably will lose out on Crawford. 

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #73 on: December 05, 2010, 06:59:25 PM »

Offline crownsy

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If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

At the same time, you also have to acknowledge that a player asking for market value isn't unreasonable.  If the reports of Gonzalez wanting Tex money are accurate, then that's a fair deal (especially in light of the Werth signing).  
I'm a believer in paying players based on what they are worth to you, not based on what someone else got or what the Yankees were willing to pay. Otherwise, the agents for every pitcher will start negotiations with Barry Zito's contract.

Market value is what other teams are willing to pay for him, not what the Yankees paid for Tex.

Yea, thats great and all in theroy, but when every other team is paying FA's more (witness nats contract to werth) you are no longer talking about "all the other teams overpay, and we aren't getting caught in that" you are talking about "we don't want to pay the value the market has established as the baseline for these players, because we want it both ways"

The second option is unacceptable if you expect me to pay the highest ticket prices in baseball.

The whole "red sox area a golden goos franchise" is based on a simple unspoken social contract.

You pay a high salary budget to players to get a winning team on the field and I pay you obnoxiously high ticket prices and concession prices to watch said team without complaint, and watch a bunch of games on TV because I know your trying to provide me with a high quality product.

When you try to get by on the cheap and fill the stadium anyway, ala sox since failing to get Tex, then my end of the social contract breaks down, and you see fake ace ticket "sell outs" and dropping ratings as they have been.

It's a symbiotic relationship, and they aren't holding up their end.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox
« Reply #74 on: December 05, 2010, 07:23:03 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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If you go into every negotiation willing to cave in on unreasonable demands, then you might as well not negotiate since everyone will know you don't mean it.

At the same time, you also have to acknowledge that a player asking for market value isn't unreasonable.  If the reports of Gonzalez wanting Tex money are accurate, then that's a fair deal (especially in light of the Werth signing).  
I'm a believer in paying players based on what they are worth to you, not based on what someone else got or what the Yankees were willing to pay. Otherwise, the agents for every pitcher will start negotiations with Barry Zito's contract.

Market value is what other teams are willing to pay for him, not what the Yankees paid for Tex.

Do you think it's likely that Gonzalez is going to make substantially less than $20 to $22 million when he hits free agency?  When players hit free agency, they get paid, almost without exception.  Why?  Because, again almost uniformly, some idiot franchise overpays massively (much like the Nationals just did with a 32 year old Jason Werth).

As crownsy said, I think Sox fans will only put up with so many "bridge years" before they stop selling out games.


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