Adrian Gonzalez to Red Sox

[bucknersrevenge]

I would prefer Crawford even though he's more expensive for these major reasons:

1. Crawford is generally considered the consensus better overall player
2. The history of paying big bucks for the second best option is almost always worse than paying more money for the best option.


That said, I looked at Werth's numbers again...he's quite good at the plate. Depending on the deal, i would not be sad to settle for him.

Yeah that really makes me nervous. Speaking of that number...

Adrien Gonzalez

.407 w/ risp!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with batters with at least 100 pa w/ risp, Gonzo #1 at .407


Coming in at #4 at .359.......you guessed it, Carl Crawford!

If I have one concern with Crawford at all it's that I'd assume he'd bad 3rd in our lineup in front of AGon. That could lessen his impact on the basepaths; take away a lot of his opportunities to make an impact on the bases the way Ellsbury and to a lesser extent Pedroia will. But on all other things Crawford is hands down the better option between the 2.

[Greenbean]

I would prefer Crawford even though he's more expensive for these major reasons:

1. Crawford is generally considered the consensus better overall player
2. The history of paying big bucks for the second best option is almost always worse than paying more money for the best option.


That said, I looked at Werth's numbers again...he's quite good at the plate. Depending on the deal, i would not be sad to settle for him.

Yeah that really makes me nervous. Speaking of that number...

Adrien Gonzalez

.407 w/ risp!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with batters with at least 100 pa w/ risp, Gonzo #1 at .407


Coming in at #4 at .359.......you guessed it, Carl Crawford!

If I have one concern with Crawford at all it's that I'd assume he'd bad 3rd in our lineup in front of AGon. That could lessen his impact on the basepaths; take away a lot of his opportunities to make an impact on the bases the way Ellsbury and to a lesser extent Pedroia will. But on all other things Crawford is hands down the better option between the 2.

Yeah its not the perfect fit as far as the lineup but it wouldnt be a bad problem to have.

[Fan from VT]

I would prefer Crawford even though he's more expensive for these major reasons:

1. Crawford is generally considered the consensus better overall player
2. The history of paying big bucks for the second best option is almost always worse than paying more money for the best option.


That said, I looked at Werth's numbers again...he's quite good at the plate. Depending on the deal, i would not be sad to settle for him.

Yeah that really makes me nervous. Speaking of that number...

Adrien Gonzalez

.407 w/ risp!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with batters with at least 100 pa w/ risp, Gonzo #1 at .407


Coming in at #4 at .359.......you guessed it, Carl Crawford!

If I have one concern with Crawford at all it's that I'd assume he'd bad 3rd in our lineup in front of AGon. That could lessen his impact on the basepaths; take away a lot of his opportunities to make an impact on the bases the way Ellsbury and to a lesser extent Pedroia will. But on all other things Crawford is hands down the better option between the 2.

Yeah its not the perfect fit as far as the lineup but it wouldnt be a bad problem to have.

On the flipside, it seems like the "ideal batting order" really only happens in the first inning of each game.

So if Crawford is batting third, that means the order is

Elsbury
Pedroia
Crawford
Gonzo
Youk
Drew
Ortiz
Lowrie
Tek/Salt

So any time Crawfor is on base, that means he's on with Gonzo/youk/drew directly behind him.

[bucknersrevenge]

I would prefer Crawford even though he's more expensive for these major reasons:

1. Crawford is generally considered the consensus better overall player
2. The history of paying big bucks for the second best option is almost always worse than paying more money for the best option.


That said, I looked at Werth's numbers again...he's quite good at the plate. Depending on the deal, i would not be sad to settle for him.

Yeah that really makes me nervous. Speaking of that number...

Adrien Gonzalez

.407 w/ risp!!!!!!!!!!!

Also with batters with at least 100 pa w/ risp, Gonzo #1 at .407


Coming in at #4 at .359.......you guessed it, Carl Crawford!

If I have one concern with Crawford at all it's that I'd assume he'd bad 3rd in our lineup in front of AGon. That could lessen his impact on the basepaths; take away a lot of his opportunities to make an impact on the bases the way Ellsbury and to a lesser extent Pedroia will. But on all other things Crawford is hands down the better option between the 2.

Yeah its not the perfect fit as far as the lineup but it wouldnt be a bad problem to have.

Nope. Crawford is a great clubhouse guy by all accounts. He's an excellent fielder. Good but not great "on-base" guy. Has extra base hit power if not big HR power. Athletic; will still steal some bases. This would be an awesome, athletic dynamic lineup if he joined us. Even if he doesn't it still will be with the continued improvement of Kalish and a hopefully healthy Cameron.

[Vermont Green]

Some times teams can tout their prospects too highly.....

Also, the early reports of what the Diamondbacks wanted for Upton started at Ellsbury and Bard plus top end prospects.

My concern isn't with the prospects, I am all for trading them.  I just don't like trading them and also paying $25M per year even for AG when we can get Beltre for $12M ir $13M.

If it takes Bard, Ellsbury and more to get Upton, I don't make that trade either but I am sure we can get a quality OF from someone for the package we are offering for AG so we still get an IF bat and an OF bat for less than what it takes to get just a really good first baseman.

Now if AG gets realistic and takes maybe $17M per year, I am all in.  But not for $25M.

[TradeProposalDude]

This deal should make the Red Sox a better team. However, if Beltre does not re-sign, I am afraid this acquisition does not improve the team by matter of addition and subtraction. I also have concern about the three prospects the Sox gave up. At least a couple of them were genuinely good prospects with high hopes of becoming very good major leaguers. There is a lot at stake if Gonzalez does not play up to par here...

[MBz]

This deal should make the Red Sox a better team. However, if Beltre does not re-sign, I am afraid this acquisition does not improve the team by matter of addition and subtraction. I also have concern about the three prospects the Sox gave up. At least a couple of them were genuinely good prospects with high hopes of becoming very good major leaguers. There is a lot at stake if Gonzalez does not play up to par here...

I agree.  First, we have to move Youkilis to third base.  I am not too thrilled about this.  I think he'll be average there in comparison to his gold glove at first and in comparison to Beltre who I thought was great there.  Next, for this move to put us above where we were last year, we need to sign Crawford or Werth.  If we don't sign one of those guys, we are in trouble.  Gonzalez will replace Beltre offensively, but we need one of those guys to replace Martinez.  Also, a big need of ours is bullpen help.  This is something which needs to be immediately addressed.  Clearly they do not have much faith in Paps if they chose to go after Rivera.   

[NEsportsfan]

I don't really understand why people are so upset with letting Beltre walk. Was he great last year? Sure. Here is my problem with Beltre, he's got that JD Drew syndrome. Both players perform much better in contract years and turn it into big money contracts, then for the next 3-5 years the production is lackluster at best. History has a way of repeating itself. Right now based on history if you're going with the sure thing it's Gonzalez and allowing Beltre to walk and take the draft picks he gets you. The people who rave about Beltre now will be the same one's who would throw him under the bus when he has less then 20 homers and less the 85 RBI's next season.

[Vermont Green]

The people who rave about Beltre now will be the same one's who would throw him under the bus when he has less then 20 homers and less the 85 RBI's next season.

I don't know about anyone else but I am not raving about Beltre, there is no doubt that Gonzalez would be an upgrade but at what cost?  To get AG we give up a lot of studs from our farm and if what was posted earlier is correct, $25M per year for what 5 or 6 years?  If we sign Beltre (at the Oakland rumored offer), we lose a couple of compensatory draft picks but we keep the very high quality prospects for another trade and we have around $12M left over for FAs which combined (trade plus FAs) can get us a nice outfielder and some relief pitchers.

So it is Gonzalez alone vs. Beltre+an outfielder+a couple of good relief pitchers for about the same $$ and players.  I just don't think that AG can do that much more than AB that it could ever justify the cost.

Now if the contract for AG comes in at something more reasonable, then great but I don't see why AG would offer any kind of a discount to the Red Sox if he feels he can get his $25M per year next year.  The great minds are working on the deal we will see how far the Sox are willing to go in terms of $$ for Gonzalez.

[NEsportsfan]

The people who rave about Beltre now will be the same one's who would throw him under the bus when he has less then 20 homers and less the 85 RBI's next season.

I don't know about anyone else but I am not raving about Beltre, there is no doubt that Gonzalez would be an upgrade but at what cost?  To get AG we give up a lot of studs from our farm and if what was posted earlier is correct, $25M per year for what 5 or 6 years?  If we sign Beltre (at the Oakland rumored offer), we lose a couple of compensatory draft picks but we keep the very high quality prospects for another trade and we have around $12M left over for FAs which combined (trade plus FAs) can get us a nice outfielder and some relief pitchers.

So it is Gonzalez alone vs. Beltre+an outfielder+a couple of good relief pitchers for about the same $$ and players.  I just don't think that AG can do that much more than AB that it could ever justify the cost.

Now if the contract for AG comes in at something more reasonable, then great but I don't see why AG would offer any kind of a discount to the Red Sox if he feels he can get his $25M per year next year.  The great minds are working on the deal we will see how far the Sox are willing to go in terms of $$ for Gonzalez.

But your reasoning is flawed. The Sox can extend Gonzalez's contract and still afford to sign a FA OF or another big time contract. Gonzalez would still only be on the books at the price San Diego picked up his option at ($6.2M). The contract extension wouldn't effect the payroll this season. Next season the Sox have Drew, Ortiz, Cameron and Papelbon's contracts off the boards, so they can afford Gonzalez's new contract and whomever else they decide to sign this season.

[Roy H.]

I'm not too broken up about letting Beltre walk.

He's going to be 32 years old and has a career OBP of .328.  I think he's a guy who is likely to decline, and there's no guarantee that the player we see next year is the same guy we saw last year. 

Also, in terms of the prospects going out in this deal, we'll get a chance to replenish the farm a bit by letting Beltre walk.  We're looking at either a 1st and a sandwich pick, or an early 2nd and a sandwich pick.  That's not such a bad thing.

==============================================================

Over on SOSH, one of their more vocal posters is suggesting keeping Beltre, and moving Youk to left.  He's being pretty much universally mocked for the idea, and I agree it's not a good one.  At the same time, it's probably not quite as bad as people are suggesting. 

[bucknersrevenge]

Some times teams can tout their prospects too highly.....

Also, the early reports of what the Diamondbacks wanted for Upton started at Ellsbury and Bard plus top end prospects.

My concern isn't with the prospects, I am all for trading them.  I just don't like trading them and also paying $25M per year even for AG when we can get Beltre for $12M ir $13M.

If it takes Bard, Ellsbury and more to get Upton, I don't make that trade either but I am sure we can get a quality OF from someone for the package we are offering for AG so we still get an IF bat and an OF bat for less than what it takes to get just a really good first baseman.

Now if AG gets realistic and takes maybe $17M per year, I am all in.  But not for $25M.

I'd do it for 20-22mil a season. AGon's bat in the lineup has a much larger impact than Beltre and VMart combined I think. Beltre for all the good he did last year hasn't proved he can replicate contract years and VMart is maybe a season or 2 from being a DH and it's pretty apparent his defense and receiving skills left a bit to be desired by some in the FO and some of the pitchers as well. Bottomline: this needs to happen. Who cares about the dollars per year? This team saved a pantload this offseason and stand to have even more money come off the books next year.

[Redz]

wow

apparently not so much of a done deal

[Donoghus]

Pay the guy, Sox management!   

Geez....

[hpantazo]

looks like the deal is dead. I hope the sox like being stuck in mediocrity and saving $$