If The Heat Had Chris Paul instead of LeBron...

[Brendan]

I think Wade and Lebron are just bad fits basketball-wise.

[MBunge]

Give this Miami team a real big man in the C to defend and bang while adding a PG that can defend top PGs, this team becomes very scary.

When you've got 2 of the top 10 players in the league on your team and add a 20/10 guy to that, you shouldn't need anything else to be scary.  Though if Riley had been smart enough to pass on Miller and Haslem in favor of Raymond Felton or Derek Fisher at point and somebody like Erick Dampier or Louis Amundson at center, the Heat would have been better off.

Mike

Those three make them scary offensively.  As a team, they shot 50% against the Celtics last night.


Defensively, they are fine at those three positions.  The problem is the other two positions where they can not stop anyone.  This causes the team defense to have to overreact and against a top PG like Rondo, creates giant holes in the defense he can pick apart. 


Get a guy that can stay in front of Rondo most the time, the holes shrink.

Get a guy that will be there to clean up perimeter mistakes down low, the holes shrink even more.

No offense, but that's like saying Miami would have the perfect team...if they had a perfect team.  It's like saying the Celtics would be scary if Rondo could shoot.  Every team is going to have weaknesses.  The point with Miami is that when you've got a 2 time MVP, a former scoring champion and a 20/10 guy, all in their prime, they should be able to overcome those weaknesses better than they have so far.

Mike

[wdleehi]

Give this Miami team a real big man in the C to defend and bang while adding a PG that can defend top PGs, this team becomes very scary.

When you've got 2 of the top 10 players in the league on your team and add a 20/10 guy to that, you shouldn't need anything else to be scary.  Though if Riley had been smart enough to pass on Miller and Haslem in favor of Raymond Felton or Derek Fisher at point and somebody like Erick Dampier or Louis Amundson at center, the Heat would have been better off.

Mike

Those three make them scary offensively.  As a team, they shot 50% against the Celtics last night.


Defensively, they are fine at those three positions.  The problem is the other two positions where they can not stop anyone.  This causes the team defense to have to overreact and against a top PG like Rondo, creates giant holes in the defense he can pick apart. 


Get a guy that can stay in front of Rondo most the time, the holes shrink.

Get a guy that will be there to clean up perimeter mistakes down low, the holes shrink even more.

No offense, but that's like saying Miami would have the perfect team...if they had a perfect team.  It's like saying the Celtics would be scary if Rondo could shoot.  Every team is going to have weaknesses.  The point with Miami is that when you've got a 2 time MVP, a former scoring champion and a 20/10 guy, all in their prime, they should be able to overcome those weaknesses better than they have so far.

Mike

If you want to win a title in the NBA, it means you fix the problem.


They do not need two more world beaters.


They do need legitimate size and a legitimate defender at the PG spot.



The Celtics would not have been what they are if they did not have Perk and Rondo.  In 08, neither were stars.  They were solid role players that played good team defense.

This Miami team does not have this.  I doubt they will be able to fill both these needs this season and I think it will effect their ability to win.  It is why they are not as good as the Celtics.

[KCattheStripe]

Get a guy that can stay in front of Rondo most the time, the holes shrink.

Do the Heat have a Time Machine to go get Dennis Johnson or Gary Payton? Because if they do I think the C's still have dibs.

[wdleehi]

Get a guy that can stay in front of Rondo most the time, the holes shrink.

Do the Heat have a Time Machine to go get Dennis Johnson or Gary Payton? Because if they do I think the C's still have dibs.

No one said it was going to be easy.  I think it is a hole they will not be able to properly plug this season.

[MBunge]

The Celtics would not have been what they are if they did not have Perk and Rondo.  In 08, neither were stars.  They were solid role players that played good team defense.

This Miami team does not have this. 

No, but they have 3 players who should, theoretically, be far better than the Big 3 Boston had in 08.  And they've got solid role players in Haslem and House.  Arroyo's career assist average is also higher than Rondo's average was for the 07/08 season.  Big Z is averaging 6.2 points and 4.7 boards in 16.6 minutes this year.  Perk averaged 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 19.2 minutes in 07/08.

I'm not saying Miami doesn't have flaws in its roster.  But a team with a 2 time MVP, a scoring champion with a NBA ring and a 20/10 guy, all in their primes, shouldn't be 5-4 no matter who the other two guys on the court are.

Mike

[Fafnir]

The Celtics would not have been what they are if they did not have Perk and Rondo.  In 08, neither were stars.  They were solid role players that played good team defense.

This Miami team does not have this.  

No, but they have 3 players who should, theoretically, be far better than the Big 3 Boston had in 08.  And they've got solid role players in Haslem and House.  Arroyo's career assist average is also higher than Rondo's average was for the 07/08 season.  Big Z is averaging 6.2 points and 4.7 boards in 16.6 minutes this year.  Perk averaged 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 19.2 minutes in 07/08.

I'm not saying Miami doesn't have flaws in its roster.  But a team with a 2 time MVP, a scoring champion with a NBA ring and a 20/10 guy, all in their primes, shouldn't be 5-4 no matter who the other two guys on the court are.

Mike

Well the problem is that their "20/10 guy" doesn't know how to impact the game without scoring yet.

Well that and Wade has been sooooo awful against the C's. Just amazingly bad.

What was the worst 9 game stretch the 07-08 C's had?

Edit: They went 5-4 twice that season.

Jan 9th - Jan 23rd

Feb 5th - Feb 22nd

[Celtics4ever]

A team built around LeBron is doomed to fail he is poor shooter, turn over prone, a quitter, provides zero leadership and dominates offensive flow with over dribbling.  I know peeps tout his production and efficiency and he is a stat machine.  But a some level he is a mirage who doesn't deliver the goods without stat padding FTAs by the refs.  We should play him close but back off the contact and let him miss.  He will and often.

They don't have any mental toughness aside from Hasleem.  The signs were all there before the season if you had not drank the  pundit kool-aid on the HEAT.  Their defense is horrible.

You can't win a title with a bunch of softies.  Only Wade has shown he is not a softie in the past and willed a team to a title carrying the load.   James carried the load but he usually dropped it at some point.  A defending PG and C isn't going to make LeBron and Bosh less of wussies.

Their roleplayers really don't compliment their stars.  House does but Hasleem had to keep them in the game last night something he should have to do.  Glen Davis ate him alive I thought and Hasleem was not boarding like a roleplaying PF or defending like he should have done.  But he shot well and kept them in the game when their stars poofed.

A lot of their problem is their stars games are redundant.  Paul would have been a better fit than James.  It would facilitate offensive flow, and Bosh could play SF which is his natural position.

Yeah they have an MVP, who is over hyped and a couple of the league's media darlings.  But only Wade has delivered the goods under pressure.  James got swept his sole finals and that ought to show peeps how worthless he is.  Larry or MJ would not allowed themselves to be swept if healthy.  This kid doesn't care about W's and I am eternally grateful he doesn't play for us.  He doesn't have that fear and despising of losing that many of the greats have as long as he gets paid and his stats are ok, he is content.   That is our best ally against him, he lacks drive!

[wdleehi]

The Celtics would not have been what they are if they did not have Perk and Rondo.  In 08, neither were stars.  They were solid role players that played good team defense.

This Miami team does not have this. 

No, but they have 3 players who should, theoretically, be far better than the Big 3 Boston had in 08.  And they've got solid role players in Haslem and House.  Arroyo's career assist average is also higher than Rondo's average was for the 07/08 season.  Big Z is averaging 6.2 points and 4.7 boards in 16.6 minutes this year.  Perk averaged 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 19.2 minutes in 07/08.

I'm not saying Miami doesn't have flaws in its roster.  But a team with a 2 time MVP, a scoring champion with a NBA ring and a 20/10 guy, all in their primes, shouldn't be 5-4 no matter who the other two guys on the court are.

Mike

And you buy that?  Are you really underselling what KG, Pierce and Ray were when they came together?  All Boston had was the defensive player of the year, the Finals MVP and one of the best shooters in NBA history that was a 20+ player up to that point.


You compare what Arroyo and Big Z can do now to what Rondo and Perk could do then?  Where is the defense? 

[rocknrollforyoursoul]

... they'd be better than they are now, but still not as good as Boston, because they'd still lack size up front, and still not be deep on the bench.

[LooseCannon]

Geez, why not imagine what if Miami had Ray Allen and a Jermaine O'Neal healthy enough to play 60 regular season games instead of Lebron?

[nba is the worst]

I think you'd have most of the same problems as far as there being only one ball. CP3 is a PG, but he pounds the ball as much as LeBron/Wade ever have. (probably more honestly)

He'd get Bosh more alley oop looks and other easy dunks, but Wade or LeBron would still struggle off the ball.

Overall I think Wade is a better player than CP3 and in the end a better fit to play with LeBron. He's just had two awful games versus the C's.

I disagree with your assessments.  The lack of chemistry among the current three, and need for a point guard, is too obvious.

Why would chemsitry with CP3 be any better? He pounds the ball just as much as Wade/Lebron/Bosh.

Also while the Heat are very weak at PG, does being very weak at SG help much either? They don't need CP3, they just need a PG to defend and hit 3s. Right now they have a guy who can shoot but that's it.

They have LeBron, they don't need a PG to create offense.

This is where I disagree. LeBron is a crappy poing guard. He might have good assist numbers but a good point guard knows how to get everyone involved in the offense. LeBron is the ultimate shoot first point guard. How many teams have won with shoot first PGs?

Edit: Everyone that plays with guys like Rondo, DWill, Nash, CP3 know to be ready because if they get in good positions, their PG will find them. Guys playing with LeBron know one thing, stay out of the paint and out of his way.

Edit #2: How many times did you see Rondo recognize good matchups with Pierce on shorter players last night? You would have thought it was Miami's game plan to put Eddie House on Pierce. In actuality, Rondo just recognized it the 4 times it happened and made it his priority to get Pierce the ball for wasy buckets.

I think you are way off base that LeBron is a crappy point guard. He creates high quality looks at a rate as good as almost any PG in the league. He looks to score first, but there is nothing wrong with that. He's the best player in the league and should be using more possessions than PG like Rondo.

There is more than one way to play PG, or run an offense.

He's 3rd worst in the league at 4.33 pg, with all that ref help.

He could certainly improve at playing point, but his public complaining about minutes, and his seeming desire to never be blamed when things go wrong, don't jibe with the responsibility of the point being the leader...

[EJPLAYA]

If the Heat want to win more games the best thing that they could do with the current roster would be to swap the roles of Haslem and Bosh. Put Haslem in the starting lineup and have Bosh be the focus of the offense on that second unit. Haslem does a great job with the "leftovers" and Bosh needs to be the focus. Not that I want to give Miami any ideas...

[gar]

I think Wade and Lebron are just bad fits basketball-wise.

Concise and to the point. They are too similar as players. Both need the ball to be effective. That is the beauty of Paul and Ray or Paul and KG.

The other thing is Lebron is not a quitter, Wade is. I love Wades game; but he is not a grind it out kind of guy. He takes plays off and only plays one end of the floor. Ray had open 3 after open 3. Plus he collapsed under Rays D. Lebron fought threw the double teams and sparked their late run.

[BballTim]

The Celtics would not have been what they are if they did not have Perk and Rondo.  In 08, neither were stars.  They were solid role players that played good team defense.

This Miami team does not have this. 

No, but they have 3 players who should, theoretically, be far better than the Big 3 Boston had in 08.  And they've got solid role players in Haslem and House.  Arroyo's career assist average is also higher than Rondo's average was for the 07/08 season.  Big Z is averaging 6.2 points and 4.7 boards in 16.6 minutes this year.  Perk averaged 8.5 points and 4.5 boards in 19.2 minutes in 07/08.

I'm not saying Miami doesn't have flaws in its roster.  But a team with a 2 time MVP, a scoring champion with a NBA ring and a 20/10 guy, all in their primes, shouldn't be 5-4 no matter who the other two guys on the court are.

Mike

  It's not how good the players are for this team as much as how well they fit together. LeBron and Wade both dominate the ball and try to create off the dribble. They can only do that one at a time. When one has the ball like that the job of the other is to basically be a spot up shooter and pull the defense out. Neither excel at that.

 If LeBron drives and sucks players towards the middle and kicks the ball out to Wade, Dwayne has nowhere to go because the defense is already sucked towards the middle. Either of them would probably be more effective if the other were replaced by Mike Miller.

  Bosh is also not in the best situation. He (like the other two) is no longer on a team that's built to accentuate his strengths, he gets fewer touches and those touches aren't plays that are run specifically for him. Two of the three are always playing a role that they've never played before.