If The Heat Had Chris Paul instead of LeBron...

[Bankshot]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

And yet he has a terrible record against the Celtics especially in big games.  Remember, it is a team game.  I think Lebron's value is exaggerated in that respect. His BB IQ is not of the caliber of Jordan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe (yes, Kobe).  He is a stat sheet stuffer. 

or Pierce.

But I think Lebron just picked the wrong team.  He would have been a perfect fit in Chicago or even NY with Amare.  He and Wade are basically the same type of player, they both need the ball in their hands.  Miami just has the wrong mix of players.

[Greenbean]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

[Fafnir]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

And yet he has a terrible record against the Celtics especially in big games.  Remember, it is a team game.  I think Lebron's value is exaggerated in that respect. His BB IQ is not of the caliber of Jordan, Bird, Magic, or Kobe (yes, Kobe).  He is a stat sheet stuffer. 

He really doesn't have a terrible record against the C's. 14-11 versus the C's, and 6-7 in the new Big 3 era.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tiny.cgi?id=NKo0R

He's won 5 games in two playoff series going 3-4 and 2-4.

Its fun to pile on the Heat because we've beat them twice but he's still the best player in the NBA and is by no means a "crappy" PG.

[Fafnir]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

[Greenbean]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

Okay well now he has a 2nd and 3rd option and guess what? He is struggling to get them involved consistently. And it is his responsibility since he is the point guard. Saying he is a crappy point guard was using some hyperbole but he is average at best. He is an amazing player. The best in the NBA. It is asking too much of a guy to lead the team in scoring AND make sure the rest of the team is engaged in the offense. He has to pick one. Lead the team in scoring while letting another player distribute the shots, OR take far lass shots while distributing the ball evenly to all of their weapons. No one is good enough to do both. Not even LeBron.

[indeedproceed]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

[Fafnir]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

Okay well now he has a 2nd and 3rd option and guess what? He is struggling to get them involved consistently. And it is his responsibility since he is the point guard. Saying he is a crappy point guard was using some hyperbole but he is average at best. He is an amazing player. The best in the NBA. It is asking too much of a guy to lead the team in scoring AND make sure the rest of the team is engaged in the offense. He has to pick one. Lead the team in scoring while letting another player distribute the shots, OR take far lass shots while distributing the ball evenly to all of their weapons. No one is good enough to do both. Not even LeBron.

Magic did it just fine, Bird did it just fine.

The problem isn't LeBron as much it is Wade/Bosh. They need to be more active and take advantage of playing off the ball. LeBron needs to do the same of course but he's their best playmaker so he should have the ball the most.

KG/Pierce/Ray meshed better quicker, but they're the exception not the rule. Its only been 9 games.

You make it sound like the Heat would be better with Mike Conley than LeBron...

[Greenbean]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

Okay well now he has a 2nd and 3rd option and guess what? He is struggling to get them involved consistently. And it is his responsibility since he is the point guard. Saying he is a crappy point guard was using some hyperbole but he is average at best. He is an amazing player. The best in the NBA. It is asking too much of a guy to lead the team in scoring AND make sure the rest of the team is engaged in the offense. He has to pick one. Lead the team in scoring while letting another player distribute the shots, OR take far lass shots while distributing the ball evenly to all of their weapons. No one is good enough to do both. Not even LeBron.

Magic did it just fine, Bird did it just fine.

The problem isn't LeBron as much it is Wade/Bosh. They need to be more active and take advantage of playing off the ball. LeBron needs to do the same of course but he's their best playmaker so he should have the ball the most.

KG/Pierce/Ray meshed better quicker, but they're the exception not the rule. Its only been 9 games.

You make it sound like the Heat would be better with Mike Conley than LeBron...

No I am saying Chris Paul would be better for that team. An elite point guard who is great at getting guys involved in the offense while also having the ability to score.

Everyone pretty much agreed that these guys would have to adjust their games to be successful. So far none of them have and LeBron will never IMO. For them to turn into the Cleveland Cavs except with elite players standing around instead of just average ones is a mistake. Maybe it is the coaching that is directing them to play like this but I have my doubts.

What else could DWade do? What else could Bosh do? They dont have the ball in their hands. LeBron does. He needs to get the ball to those guys as much as he looks for his own shots. Call for a Bosh post up. Call for a DWade iso or post up. If he is running the show than run a diverse array of plays. It is vanilla basketball they are playing and it simply does not work against well balanced teams. Their talent alone can carry them on most nights but if they dont figure out how to play team ball, they will not win a title.

I know its only 9 games. Im not an idiot but I have my doubts that they will figure it out.

[Greenbean]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

Sorry IP but I think you are missing my point. I know LBJ is a stat stuffer, but he is no point guard even though he is basically playing the position. If Bosh cant play without the ball, make sure he gets the ball!

If they just wanted to play the drive and dish game all day like in Cleveland, you dont need to surround him with those players. Waste. Of. Talent.

[Fafnir]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

Okay well now he has a 2nd and 3rd option and guess what? He is struggling to get them involved consistently. And it is his responsibility since he is the point guard. Saying he is a crappy point guard was using some hyperbole but he is average at best. He is an amazing player. The best in the NBA. It is asking too much of a guy to lead the team in scoring AND make sure the rest of the team is engaged in the offense. He has to pick one. Lead the team in scoring while letting another player distribute the shots, OR take far lass shots while distributing the ball evenly to all of their weapons. No one is good enough to do both. Not even LeBron.

Magic did it just fine, Bird did it just fine.

The problem isn't LeBron as much it is Wade/Bosh. They need to be more active and take advantage of playing off the ball. LeBron needs to do the same of course but he's their best playmaker so he should have the ball the most.

KG/Pierce/Ray meshed better quicker, but they're the exception not the rule. Its only been 9 games.

You make it sound like the Heat would be better with Mike Conley than LeBron...

No I am saying Chris Paul would be better for that team. An elite point guard who is great at getting guys involved in the offense while also having the ability to score.

Everyone pretty much agreed that these guys would have to adjust their games to be successful. So far none of them have and LeBron will never IMO. For them to turn into the Cleveland Cavs except with elite players standing around instead of just average ones is a mistake. Maybe it is the coaching that is directing them to play like this but I have my doubts.

What else could DWade do? What else could Bosh do? They dont have the ball in their hands. LeBron does. He needs to get the ball to those guys as much as he looks for his own shots. Call for a Bosh post up. Call for a DWade iso or post up. If he is running the show than run a diverse array of plays. It is vanilla basketball they are playing and it simply does not work against well balanced teams. Their talent alone can carry them on most nights but if they dont figure out how to play team ball, they will not win a title.

I know its only 9 games. Im not an idiot but I have my doubts that they will figure it out.

Bosh isn't a post up player, and Wade needs to cut and move off the ball. He didn't do much of that at all in the second half.

Going to Bosh puts KG the C's best P&R player into the mix, they'd rather attack BBD.

I don't get what LeBron should have done with Wade playing like crap. If Wade isn't effective with the ball, why should LeBron let him handle it going forward?

[Fafnir]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

Sorry IP but I think you are missing my point. I know LBJ is a stat stuffer, but he is no point guard even though he is basically playing the position. If Bosh cant play without the ball, make sure he gets the ball!

If they just wanted to play the drive and dish game all day like in Cleveland, you dont need to surround him with those players. Waste. Of. Talent.

Why in the world should they feed Bosh the ball when he's the third best option? Especially in a game like last night's when he's matched up against a guy like KG?

Bosh needs to adjust his game the most, getting the ball to let him face up in the high post 5 times a game won't make the Heat better.

[Greenbean]

Lebron is their best player.  He is the only player the Celtics can not stop on the Heat.


If anything, do the rest of guys compliment Lebron?

There are a bunch of guys in Cleveland that complimented him pretty well. That didnt really turn out so well.

In talent alone, LeBron is their best player but so far their talents have not pruduced good solid team basketball.

The Cav's played great team basketball for most of the past two years.

He was undone by a lack of a second option and poor match ups. Against Orlando they didn't have enough size to match up with Turk/Lewis/Howard (LeBron was amazing that series). Against the C's they didn't have a second option offensive and had awful matchups with Mo Williams, Shaq, and Jamison. (Rondo and KG destroyed the Cavs)

The idea that his style can't win, that he's a poor distributor, and is a "crappy" PG is bizare.

Of course people still think Kobe is the best player in the NBA.....

Okay well now he has a 2nd and 3rd option and guess what? He is struggling to get them involved consistently. And it is his responsibility since he is the point guard. Saying he is a crappy point guard was using some hyperbole but he is average at best. He is an amazing player. The best in the NBA. It is asking too much of a guy to lead the team in scoring AND make sure the rest of the team is engaged in the offense. He has to pick one. Lead the team in scoring while letting another player distribute the shots, OR take far lass shots while distributing the ball evenly to all of their weapons. No one is good enough to do both. Not even LeBron.

Magic did it just fine, Bird did it just fine.

The problem isn't LeBron as much it is Wade/Bosh. They need to be more active and take advantage of playing off the ball. LeBron needs to do the same of course but he's their best playmaker so he should have the ball the most.

KG/Pierce/Ray meshed better quicker, but they're the exception not the rule. Its only been 9 games.

You make it sound like the Heat would be better with Mike Conley than LeBron...

No I am saying Chris Paul would be better for that team. An elite point guard who is great at getting guys involved in the offense while also having the ability to score.

Everyone pretty much agreed that these guys would have to adjust their games to be successful. So far none of them have and LeBron will never IMO. For them to turn into the Cleveland Cavs except with elite players standing around instead of just average ones is a mistake. Maybe it is the coaching that is directing them to play like this but I have my doubts.

What else could DWade do? What else could Bosh do? They dont have the ball in their hands. LeBron does. He needs to get the ball to those guys as much as he looks for his own shots. Call for a Bosh post up. Call for a DWade iso or post up. If he is running the show than run a diverse array of plays. It is vanilla basketball they are playing and it simply does not work against well balanced teams. Their talent alone can carry them on most nights but if they dont figure out how to play team ball, they will not win a title.

I know its only 9 games. Im not an idiot but I have my doubts that they will figure it out.

Bosh isn't a post up player, and Wade needs to cut and move off the ball. He didn't do much of that at all in the second half.

Going to Bosh puts KG the C's best P&R player into the mix, they'd rather attack BBD.

I don't get what LeBron should have done with Wade playing like crap. If Wade isn't effective with the ball, why should LeBron let him handle it going forward?

He should let him because he needs to realize they will not win with him alone doing the scoring. Somehow find him some easy buckets to get him going. It is the quarterback mentality. Let me throw some short slants to Randy Moss so he is involved enouhg to hit that big play when we need it.

Maybe later in the season they will get it. We'll see. I prefer to think they will not figure it out!

[Greenbean]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

Sorry IP but I think you are missing my point. I know LBJ is a stat stuffer, but he is no point guard even though he is basically playing the position. If Bosh cant play without the ball, make sure he gets the ball!

If they just wanted to play the drive and dish game all day like in Cleveland, you dont need to surround him with those players. Waste. Of. Talent.

Why in the world should they feed Bosh the ball when he's the third best option? Especially in a game like last night's when he's matched up against a guy like KG?

Bosh needs to adjust his game the most, getting the ball to let him face up in the high post 5 times a game won't make the Heat better.

Look at your last 2 posts!

Why get it to Wade when he is playing like crap?

Why get it to Bosh?

Because they are all stars who know how to score! Yes getting Bosh the ball facing up in the post 5 times a game WILL make them better. He can score from that position rather efficiently.

Why even sign all 3 of them?

So if you started a thread like this it would be the Heat would be better off without Wade and Bosh. Is that what you are saying? I dont get it. It wasnt LeBron's fault in Cleveland, it was his supporting cast.

Now (in this small sample size) it still isnt LeBron's fault when he has two other perrenial all stars in their prime in the supporting cast?

[indeedproceed]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

Sorry IP but I think you are missing my point. I know LBJ is a stat stuffer, but he is no point guard even though he is basically playing the position. If Bosh cant play without the ball, make sure he gets the ball!

If they just wanted to play the drive and dish game all day like in Cleveland, you dont need to surround him with those players. Waste. Of. Talent.

See, I think you're not really getting what I'm saying. Let me put it like this: Right now, Miami is playing 1 on 5, as long as one of James/Wade/Bosh have the ball. Basically, one of them decides he's going to score, and they iso on their man and try to score on the defense.

Against poor defenders/poorly defending teams these guys can get away with that. But, against good defenders, and especially good team defending squads, they're going to continue to be a lot less efficient.

Chris Bosh is a fantastic example. He'd get the ball on the wing about 20 feet from the rim, he's start into his face-up moves against Garnett or Davis, and he'd get about 3-4 feet then shoot a tough fade-away.

That's exactly what Miami shouldn't be doing. They're not working the ball around, and they're making their shots harder than they need to be.

LeBron James can help that a lot, by helping the spacing with everyone, but beyond that team chemistry and team offensive schemes are important too. It seems like Miami wants to beat you one guy one shot at a time, instead of as a team. I think that has as much to do with guys figuring out how to turn their respective individual talents into wins as it does anything else.

[Greenbean]

I am basing this on my belief that LeBron doesnt know how to get players involved in the offense because he IS the offense. I think Paul is much better at this and while he cant score like Lebron, he would actually be a better fit with Wade and Bosh.

I think if you're seeing LeBron as the weak link you're missing a lot. The Heat are most effective when LeBron is going to the cup and hitting the open man.

LeBron is averaging 8.7 assists per game right now, putting him only .2 assists per game behind Steve Nash.

I think the bigger problem is Chris Bosh, and its not what people think. Chris Bosh is having the hardest time adjusting to playing with elite players. Without the ball, he doesn't know what to do.      

Sorry IP but I think you are missing my point. I know LBJ is a stat stuffer, but he is no point guard even though he is basically playing the position. If Bosh cant play without the ball, make sure he gets the ball!

If they just wanted to play the drive and dish game all day like in Cleveland, you dont need to surround him with those players. Waste. Of. Talent.

See, I think you're not really getting what I'm saying. Let me put it like this: Right now, Miami is playing 1 on 5, as long as one of James/Wade/Bosh have the ball. Basically, one of them decides he's going to score, and they iso on their man and try to score on the defense.

Against poor defenders/poorly defending teams these guys can get away with that. But, against good defenders, and especially good team defending squads, they're going to continue to be a lot less efficient.

Chris Bosh is a fantastic example. He'd get the ball on the wing about 20 feet from the rim, he's start into his face-up moves against Garnett or Davis, and he'd get about 3-4 feet then shoot a tough fade-away.

That's exactly what Miami shouldn't be doing. They're not working the ball around, and they're making their shots harder than they need to be.

LeBron James can help that a lot, by helping the spacing with everyone, but beyond that team chemistry and team offensive schemes are important too. It seems like Miami wants to beat you one guy one shot at a time, instead of as a team. I think that has as much to do with guys figuring out how to turn their respective individual talents into wins as it does anything else.

That is a good way to put it and I agree that 1 on 5 doesnt work. What i disagree with is that LeBron can help that. I have never seen him run offensive sets. Just isos with the occasional P&R. You are right that it takes chmistry and offensive schemes. Well we are on team #2 for LeBron with no offensive schemes besides Lebronball. They might find chemistry but Im not sure that offensive "system" will get much more diverse.