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Dutch soccer
« on: October 02, 2010, 05:16:13 AM »

Offline FranckNL

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Wow! I didn't expect Americans were interested in football, or how you call it; soccer. I'm from Holland so I thought it would be nice to keep you up to date about the Dutch Premier League (eredivisie). It may not be the biggest league around but it is an interesting one, certainly now the whole league is shifting. Old time top teams are crumbling down while new one's are rising.

First I'll teach you some history about the greatest small soccer nation of the world.

The Dutch teams were the most successful in the 70's. Back then there was still the old static football, when the greatest Dutch manager all time, Rinus Michels, invented "totaalvoetbal". This was never seen before, a 4-3-3 system (4 defenders, 3 midfielder and 3 attackers) that would swap positions and quickly played the ball around. Barcelona is one of the teams today that's still using this system.

With this system the Dutch soccer teams dominated the whole world. Ajax Amsterdam lost the Euro Cup I Final(today Champions League) in 1969. Feyenoord Rotterdam won it in 1970 also they won the World Cup in that year. Ajax Amsterdam won the Euro Cup I in 1971, 1972 and 1973. They won the World Cup in 1972 and the European Super Cup in 1972 and 1973. There was also succes in the UEFA Cup (now Euro League), Feyenoord Rotterdam won the cup in 1974, FC Twente Enschede lost the final in 1975 and PSV brought the cup to Eindhoven in 1978.

Back then we had some of the best players in the world, like Johan Cruijff, thanks to the famous Dutch youth academies, that are still one of the best in the world an copied by all the big teams around the world nowadays. The national team (we call it Oranje) was also one of the best teams around, but just not good enough. We lost the World Cup Finals in 1974 and 1978. Especially the loss in 1974 is still a national trauma as we lost from out hatred neighbors and biggest rivals, Germany.

Later on there was still some success for the Dutch teams in Europe, but never it was that good like in the good old 70's. Money grew in the soccerworld and Holland, being a small country, couldn't keep up with the big nations like England, Spain, Italy, France and Germany. Since the end of the 70's only two dutch teams that managed to win the Champions League, PSV Eindhoven in 1988 and Ajax Amsterdam in 1995, losing finalist in 1996 and winner of the World Cup 1996. In the UEFA Cup there was also some success, AZ Alkmaar lost the final in 1981, Ajax Amsterdam won the cup in 92 and Feyenoord was the last Dutch team with European success when they won the UEFA cup in 2002.

The Dutch national team didn't know any success after the 70's until the late 80's. We won the European Championship in 1988 with one of the greatest teams all time. Players like Marco van Basten, Ruud Gullit, Frank Rijkaard and Ronald Koeman. Again some quality products from the Dutch youth academies. Though we didn't win any cups after 88, we did had some success. In the European Championships we made it to the semi-finals in 1992, quarter-finals in 1996, semi-finals in 2000, semi-finals in 2004 and quarter-finals in 2008. In the World Cup we also did pretty well, in 1994 we made the quarter-finals, 1998 semi-finals and in 2010 we lost the final from Spain.

Since the big teams in the big nations got more and more money to spend the dutch teams could only keep up with trying to invest in youth academies and coaches, and this worked. Holland is known for many big soccer talents and excellent coaches that work all over the world. Just think of some dutch players, Wesley Sneijder, Arjen Robben, Rafael van der Vaart, Ruud van Nistelrooy, Edwin van der Sar and Robin van Persie. There are also many good coaches around nowadays, the most famous ones are Guus Hiddink, Louis van Gaal, Dick Advocaat and Frank Rijkaard.



Nederlandse Eredivisie (Dutch Premier League)


The Dutch premier League has 18 teams, and 3 teams are considered to be the top teams. Since 1964 until 2008 only these 3 teams won the national championship (with the exception of AZ Alkmaar in 1981) and are known as "the traditional 3"


National championships: 1918, 1919, 1931, 1932, 1934, 1937, 1939, 1947,1957, 1960, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1970, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982, 1983, 1985, 1990, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1998, 2002, 2004

National Cups: 1917, 1943, 1961, 1967, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1979, 1983, 1986, 1987, 1993, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2006, 2007, 2010

National Super Cups: 1993, 1994, 1995, 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007


National Championships: 1929, 1935, 1951, 1963, 1975, 1976, 1978, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1997, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008

National Cups: 1950, 1974, 1976, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1996, 2005

National Super Cups: 1992, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2008




National Championships: 1924, 1928, 1936, 1938, 1940, 1961, 1962, 1965, 1969, 1971, 1974, 1984, 1993, 1999

National Cups: 1930, 1935, 1965, 1969, 1980, 1984, 1991, 1992, 1994, 1995, 2008

National Super Cups: 1991, 1999

Luckily the Dutch league is changing a bit. the traditional 3 have abandoned the old Dutch philosophy for a while of training youth in a desperate try to keep up with the european top. This made them spending millions on players that weren't actually really good so of course that failed. Right now they're in some financial troubles what forces them to look at their own youth again. Especially Feyenoord is in really big problems and they find themselves at the bottom half of the league. The other teams kept focusing on their own youth and some good scouting and that resulted in championships for AZ Alkmaar in 2009 and FC Twente Enschede in 2010.

Right now the season has just started and Ajax is on top but they're not really playing well, same goes for PSV and Feyenoord, they are way down there. Potential top teams, like FC Groningen and FC Twente are playing very well, but they seem to miss some luck at the big moments or maybe it's just inexperience. Other teams like FC utrecht are not off to a great start, but the season's still young. Utrecht is playing well in Europe though, the knocked Glasgow Celtic out the Euro League and were unlucky in the draws against Napoli and Liverpool.

league standings on this moment

numbers are; games played, won, draw, loss, points, goals for-against

I'll try to get you some updates as the season goes on, if you're interested of course, and I hope it's readable for you, as English is not my native language. 

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 07:48:49 AM »

Offline Global Celtic

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Great post.
I'm from Porto, Portugal, and my hometown club coach, André Villas Boas (young coach that learned with Bobby Robson and José Mourinho), is adopting a semi-"totaalvoetbal" style in FC Porto and with great results so far (11 straight wins in domestic and euro games, some great games to watch). I think football must always keep that in mind: it's an entertainment. (by the way, FC Porto had a Dutch coach a few years ago, Co Adriaanse. He was fired after a players revolt).

Personally, I consider Marco van Basten to be the prototype of striker in football history. And I also remember D. Bergkamp's class.

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 09:03:03 AM »

Offline FranckNL

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I can't believe I forget to mention Dennis Bergkamp  :o

He's my favorite player all time

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vhqe1F7HXD4

I don't like his 4 goals in 1 match at the end though, although it's brilliant but he didn't have to do it to my local and favorite team RKC Waalwijk...  :P

And maybe his best goal ever! In the World Cup quarter finals 1998, against Argentina, the score was 1-1 and just before the end of the match...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc1H2hOHu_s

I don't think any dutchman who saw that on that moment will ever forget it

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 10:41:55 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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Goedemorgen.  :) that was a very impressive post. Thanks for taking all the time and work to put it up. I am glad to see more soccer/football to the entire universe outside of the US posts.

I really did not know Dutch football had such an impressive history. (I confess... I am bit fixated on Brazil)

But I have a quick question for you since I know so little....  What do you mean by "totaalvoetbal" and how did it change the game so much?(was it akin to the 24 second clock in basketball or the live ball in baseball? That is, something that transformed how the game is played?)

Thanks again.
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Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 11:47:16 AM »

Offline FranckNL

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goedemorgen! :)

first of all I'm not aware of what a live ball is, I don't know a thing about baseball. But it's not like a new rule, it's just a way of playing the game.

Back in those days Soccer was a kinda defensive game, you had 5 defenders, 4 midfielders and 1 attacker. People would not move around the field but would just stay on their position. Exception was maybe Brazil but they didn't really had a real tactic, they just enjoyed themselves with their amazing skills.

With "totaal Voetbal" this changed, players would swap position and run around the field. Backs pushed forward and left wingers also played on the right side and right wingers on the left side and attackers started to fall back to help the defenders. It just meant that the players were everywhere around the field and it was really hard for an opponent to anticipate to that kind of tactic. It was a really new attractive and attacking kind of play that made the game total. Therefore the name Total Soccer (in dutch Totaal Voetbal).

The dutch are still spreading our philosophy of the game and totaal voetbal over the world and now it's really winning territory, especially in the southern European countries that still used the defensive kind of tactics. 

Louis van Gaal and Frank Rijkaard brought this tactic to Barcelona, they still play this tactic today and are dominating the Spanish league. The national team of Spain copied this playing style and became world champions.

Bayern Munchen is playing this way with manager Louis van Gaal and were finalist in the Champions League last season. The Germans have been sending coaches to Holland to study our approach to soccer and that's resulting in a very good and young attacking German team right now. On this moment there are many Russian coaches in Holland to learn from us and I have no doubt we'll see the results within 10 years. Guus Hiddink and Frank Rijkaard are in Turkey. There's a dutch youth academy in South Africa (Ajax Cape Town) and some former Dutch professionals started a team in the USA, Dayton Dutch Lions, who play in the Premier Development League

 
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 12:26:46 PM by FranckNL »

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 12:07:12 PM »

Offline Junkyard Dawg

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it's great to see how much exposure the Premier league, spanish and italian leagues get in the states now.  esp on weekends if you have decent cable/satellite, there's almost always a game on.  but german, dutch and south american teams don't get shown too much.

I liked the dutch team this year, glad they made it to the finals, but i think a lot of ppl were not pleased with the kind of game they played in the final (all the fouls, etc).  I guess they felt like this was how they would win, and it did keep them in the game, but I think they had the players up front to keep this a close game regardless.  Yeah I hope they have continued success, Holland is one of my favorite countries ive ever visited.

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 12:25:16 PM »

Offline FranckNL

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Well in Holland we were not pleased with the way Oranje was playing, but we did made it to the final and that hasn't happened to us since 1978. The problem is we want to win, but we also want it to happen with beautiful football. Some nations are different that way, Italy will be happy if they become champions with defensive play, the Dutch will not be very happy about. The first important thing to us is attractive attacking football and the second is winning.

But then again, so many years we played great games but didn't win. It's never bad to try a different approach and see if it works. And it did in a way but Spain was just better and I guess the players became frustrated about that...

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2010, 08:26:45 PM »

Offline misha

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Louis van Gaal and Frank Rijkaard brought this tactic to Barcelona, they still play this tactic today and are dominating the Spanish league. The national team of Spain copied this playing style and became world champions.
Actually, the credit for Barca's style indisputably goes to Johan Cruyff who greatly influenced Barca - first as a player in the 70's, and later as a manager from late 80's to the mid 90's (most successful Braca's coach to date).
The Immortals:

Iker Casillas, Giacinto Facchetti, Alessandro Nesta, Matthias Sammer, Javier Zanetti, Lothar Matthäus (c), Xavi, Zico, Maradona, Roberto Baggio, Ferenc Puskas, Karl Heinz Rummenigge

Coach:Rinus Michels

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2010, 09:04:17 PM »

Offline Witch-King

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I thought your brief summary of the history of Dutch soccer was interesting, and well written.

I hate to be a spoil-sport, however as far as international futbol goes I tend to lose interest, I mean I know that the World Cup is the most widely-viewed sporting event on the globe, however because of this I find that the sport soccer (football, futbol etc) tends to breed a sort of irrational sense of nationalism amongst its viewers. I mean I can go off into a tangent and start quoting George Orwell's 'The Sporting Spirit', however for the sake of brevity I think I'll pass on that subject.

I will say this though -- during the finals of the World Cup I rooted for Spain to defeat the Netherlands, despite the fact that I absolutely despise the Spanish and La Liga for being racist to African footballers. I apologize in advance, however I can't support Dutch futbol either because of the activities of their petroleum company 'Royal Dutch Shell' in my home country Nigeria. If you didn't know more oil is spilled in the Niger Delta in Nigeria every single year than what was spilled during the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico this year, however there is literally no chance that oil companies like Royal Dutch Shell will ever fully compensate for all of the damage that they have done to the environment in the southern region of Nigeria.

http://orwell.ru/library/articles/spirit/english/e_spirit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejym4mKelhM

^lol, sad to say that the corrupt Nigerian government allows such atrocity to afflict its own land unchecked, however it is that very same government who makes the majority of the profit from the crude oil in the Delta at the expense of their own citizens who live in that region...
« Last Edit: October 05, 2010, 03:50:03 AM by Witch-King »
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Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2010, 10:19:06 AM »

Offline ederson

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PSV - Feyenord  10-0  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

Re: Dutch soccer
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2010, 11:33:19 AM »

Offline eddietours

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nice post thanks  :D