Sources: Carmelo 4 way trade in talks

[Drucci]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

Diaw is "phenomenal" as a big man passer.  That's probably his defining characteristic.

I thought what defined him as a player was that he didn't have any one skill that defined him as a player.

Shoots okay, passes okay, defends okay, but doesn't do any one of those things at an elite, defining level.

No, Diaw really is a phenomenal passer, not only for a "big man" but a great passer in general. It is his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness actually, because he tends to overpass and he is always looking to pass the ball even when he has an open shot or when he is in the paint and just has to score.

He really has good offensive moves too but he prefers to shoot 3's or pass so he is a very frustrating player because he always makes you think he could do much more but he never does (or rarely). However, I think playing under Sloan's system, he could really reboost his career and be a great addition for this Jazz team.

Losing 20lbs would help his career also.  He fills his shorts like Quinten Richardson did a couple years ago.

Yep, along with his "lazy" attitude, he is overweight so it doesn't help his game.

[ACF]

http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_16175813

[Vermont Green]

The implication in the Denver Post article is that Denver is trying to work this to see if they can get something better from another team or by expanding it.  I guess the particpants in the trade are not likely to find another deal (for example, I doubt Utah has other offers for AK) and NJ isn't going to suddenly trade Favors for Chris Paul but I don't see how Denver gets anything better (so why screw around with this).

The only thing that isn't perfect about this deal is they end up with a little more money I think.  If they are hesitant on AK, why not just take Favors and Harris and leave Charlotte and Utah out of it.  Move Billups to 2 and JR Smith to 3.

I actually would keep the deal the way it is because then they can start to start over sooner.  Harris is potentially a part of that future so he is not that bad of a young'ish guy to get.

The other story is that NJ won't do it unless they they get DJAug back.  Maybe we could trade them Nate to be their PG.

[pearljammer10]

Yea I really dont understand why Jazz and Bobcats have been brought in. Denver would be much better off trading Melo for Favors, Harris and draft picks. The Nets could add a contract like Humphries is the numbers didnt work. I think getting Harris and Favors would be much better for the Nuggets in both short term and long term.

[Smitty77]

Pearljammer10,

The Nuggets want cap room now and esp. at the end of the 2012 year.  Diaw expires after the 2011/2012 year, but Harris goes one more year.  I am not sure of the free agent market that year, but that could be a factor.  Also, the fact that Billups is really getting up there in years and will be 36 when his contract is up in 2012 (when he is owed 14 mill.)

Here is a link to a Charlotte sports writer's opinion on Diaw, that most all of you have been relentlessly trashing:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/09/a-pause-to-appreciate-diaw.html

Smitty77

[Roy H.]

Pearljammer10,

The Nuggets want cap room now and esp. at the end of the 2012 year.  Diaw expires after the 2011/2012 year, but Harris goes one more year.  I am not sure of the free agent market that year, but that could be a factor.  Also, the fact that Billups is really getting up there in years and will be 36 when his contract is up in 2012 (when he is owed 14 mill.)

Here is a link to a Charlotte sports writer's opinion on Diaw, that most all of you have been relentlessly trashing:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/09/a-pause-to-appreciate-diaw.html

Smitty77

The only positive thing he says about Diaw, though, is this:

The beauty of Diaw, which gets dismissed far too quickly here, is the guy could play all five NBA positions.

He talks about the importance of versatility, but basically lays that out as Diaw's only attribute.  Importantly, he also adds:

First off, if I were the Charlotte Bobcats, and I could effectively trade Boris Diaw for Devin Harris, I'd do it.

And points out several criticisms of Diaw:

We know all of Diaw's flaws: He's nonchalant. He's a reluctant shooter. He never looks in great shape. Sometimes he acts so laid-back, you'd take a cattle-prod to him if you could.

In other words, if that's the best the writer could come up with in appreciation of Diaw, it's easy to see why Celtics fans think the Bobcats are getting the better end of the deal.

[Who]

Yea I really dont understand why Jazz and Bobcats have been brought in. Denver would be much better off trading Melo for Favors, Harris and draft picks. The Nets could add a contract like Humphries is the numbers didnt work. I think getting Harris and Favors would be much better for the Nuggets in both short term and long term.

I don't understand why Carmelo green lights this deal instead of the trade where Denver get T.Murphy instead of Kirilenko ... why lose Devin Harris? Surely he is a guy that Melo would like to play with in NJ.

If I am Denver, I would also prefer to grab Devin Harris + then trade Billups for more assets.

I don't think Billups has any use, at his age, to the Nuggets if they are not contending. Rebuild properly. At least Devin Harris can be apart of that process.

------------------------------------------

On another note, how is Utah trading away Kirilenko ($17.83 million) and only taking back Boris Diaw ($9 million)? I don't understand how that is happening financially.

125% of AK47s would be $14.26 million minus $100k = $14.16 million.

Charlotte, Utah and Denver are all over the cap so they can't accept more money in return. The Nets are ever so slightly below cap but only by $2-3 million.

I don't understand how that part of trade works.

[pearljammer10]

I agree that the Nets should do anything they can to keep Harris and still nab Melo. However, at the same time, if I'm Denver I dont do the deal unless Harris is included. Tough sitch...

Pearljammer10,

The Nuggets want cap room now and esp. at the end of the 2012 year.  Diaw expires after the 2011/2012 year, but Harris goes one more year.  I am not sure of the free agent market that year, but that could be a factor.  Also, the fact that Billups is really getting up there in years and will be 36 when his contract is up in 2012 (when he is owed 14 mill.)

Here is a link to a Charlotte sports writer's opinion on Diaw, that most all of you have been relentlessly trashing:

http://blogs.charlotte.com/inside_the_nba/2010/09/a-pause-to-appreciate-diaw.html

Smitty77

I'm sorry but can you explain this more? I get that the Nuggets want cap room but how does Diaw and Harris factor into it when neither are going to the Nuggets? Are you saying they need to be part of the trade so the Nuggets get Kirilenko? Im confused.

[Roy H.]

I don't understand why Carmelo green lights this deal instead of the trade where Denver get T.Murphy instead of Kirilenko ... why lose Devin Harris? Surely he is a guy that Melo would like to play with in NJ.

I haven't 100% analyzed their situation, but maybe by keeping Murphy they can have cap space next year, but with Harris they couldn't?

That's an outright guess; I haven't even looked at their salary cap, but it's one potential situation that could make sense.

[Smitty77]

Pearljammer10,

My bad.  4-way trades are difficult to keep up with.  That being said, how much cap room will this create for the Nuggets immediately and in one year?  I don't know.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Roy,

My main point is that Diaw is a well rounded player that certainly does a lot of things well.  The Bobcats are certainly losing a solid team player and a critical part of their bench for the upcomig year, assuming that Tyrus would start at PF.

All of this comes after an error in judgment from my view point of letting Felton go.  Felton is a solid PG that is clutch.  I bet only about 5-10% of the players in the league are as clutch as he is.  It pains me to admit that about a Carolina grad, being an N.C. State fan.  (I have a daughter that is a jr. chemical engineering major at State and a daughter that is a freshman at UNC:-)))  This becomes a definite negative for the Bobcats if Augustine has to be included.  I don't care what any of you say, losing Felton, Diaw, and DJ and adding Livingston and Harris, does NOT make them a better team.  Time will tell IF this trade goes down.  Remember, I live here, so I know a little bit about the Bobcats.

Smitty77

[Smitty77]

Pearljammer10,

Denver would save over $14 million after this year and have two #1 picks and Favors.  I bet that the Cavs and Raptors would have loved something like that for their stars that bolted to the Heat, huh?

Smitty77

[Who]

I don't understand why Carmelo green lights this deal instead of the trade where Denver get T.Murphy instead of Kirilenko ... why lose Devin Harris? Surely he is a guy that Melo would like to play with in NJ.

I haven't 100% analyzed their situation, but maybe by keeping Murphy they can have cap space next year, but with Harris they couldn't?

That's an outright guess; I haven't even looked at their salary cap, but it's one potential situation that could make sense.

Let's see, the Nets are spending on Travis Outlaw ($7 mil), Anthony Morrow ($4 mil), Jordan Farmar ($3.75 mil) and Johan Petro ($3.25 mil) which limits their cap flexibility going forward. A combined $18 million there plus Carmelo's $19 million after he signs a contract extension plus they have three players on rookie contracts in Brook Lopez, Terrence Williams and Damion James. Say another $6.5 million there. A total of $43.5 million for 8 players plus cap holds for four empty roster spots, another $2 million, bringing them up over $45 million.

The Nets will have about $10-13 million in cap space in 2011.

With Devin Harris, $9 million, they'd be left with the MLE.

[Who]

I'd love to see Kirilenko play for Nets. It's a pity he isn't heading to NJ too.

He'd be a very nice power forward slotted in between Carmelo and B.Lopez.

[TradeProposalDude]

The new rumor is Carmelo for Iguodala. It is on realGM. That would make it two blockbuster, franchise altering moves between the two franchises in a span of four years (the first being the AI trade).

I said earlier that Carmelo was left out of the free agency speculation this offseason where so many big names were unrestricted free agents. He's witnessed his contemporaries make career changing decisions which may result in lots of titles. He wants to get in on the fun. He probably even wishes he signed a similar deal to LeBron and Bosh that would have expired in 2010 back in 2006. 

Anthony may also feel he is at a dead end in his career in Denver. The Nuggets came close to contending for a spot in the Finals a year back, but were in a tough position during the ascendance of the Lakers. Personally, I think his best option is to stay in Denver, but he likely wants a change of scenery.

I just wonder, do the proposed deals with the Nets and Sixers even make sense? These teams are worse than the Nuggets, and it's really not even worth evaluating the comparisons. I guess I can understand his desire to play with the Knicks on some level. As the case goes with LeBron and Wade, he wants the media attention and cold hard cash, not just the wins. Plus the Knicks may be in the best position, compared to the other previously mentioend up and coming teams, to be in contention in the short term.