Sources: Carmelo 4 way trade in talks

[Who]

Utah need to be careful. They are close to losing Deron Williams.

I don't think this deal in itself will have much of an impact ... but they need to start turning things around and moving in the right direction again before their lack of ambition becomes too much for Deron to handle.

[Smitty77]

Let's remember that Felton had a 14.8 Eff. Rating, which doesn't factor in how "clutch" he was.  Diaw was a 14.4 for the reg. season.

The great Harris was only a 15.9.

[Roy H.]

Let's remember that Felton had a 14.8 Eff. Rating, which doesn't factor in how "clutch" he was.  Diaw was a 14.4 for the reg. season.

The great Harris was only a 15.9.

Does Efficiency Rating really matter that much?  Kevin Durant ranked 24th in the NBA in Efficiency Rating last year, behind, among others, Paul Millsap and Jason Richardson.  In another example, Joakim Noah ranks significantly higher than Dwight Howard. 

If the Suns offered Richardson for Durant, should OKC accept the deal?  Of course not, because Efficiency Rating doesn't tell close to the entire story. 

[snively]

Devin Harris is a much better than Raymond Felton. He is a legitimate 17-20ppg threat and one of the most capable defensive PGs in the league.

The perimeter combination of D.Harris, S-Jackson, G-Wallace will be very difficult for teams across the league to matchup against. Their defense, their athleticism, their scoring punch. That is a lot of quality. Tyrus Thomas is solid PF too. A very nice core to build the rest of the roster around. A good improvement over their starters 1-4 last season when the Bobcats won 44 games.

Also, Larry Brown is one of the finest coaches in the league when it comes to developing point guards. Particularly their decision making and ability to run an offense. He can have a very large effect on Devin Harris over the next 12-24 months and improve him considerably as floor general.

Harris will also have Stephen Jackson who is an excellent ball-handler and very good passer on the wings to help take some of the playmaking off his plate. Which will free Harris up to be a scorer a lot like Vince did in NJ. Adding that offensive punch to the Nets cranks them up a tier from the 42-45 win range to a legitimate high 40s team (47-50 wins).

You might be giving Jackson a bit too much credit.  He's not quite the offensive player Carter was in NJ. 

Still, I agree with your overall projection.  The Bobcats could be a lot like the regular season version of us last year: excellent defensively, mediocre offensively.  Unfortunately for the Bobcats, they don't have the extra gear the Celtics had.

[Smitty77]

Roy,

I am sure that what you typed must have been a typo.  JRich was 77th for the regular season and Durant was #2.

Smitty77

[Roy H.]

Roy,

I am sure that what you typed must have been a typo.  JRich was 77th for the regular season and Durant was #2.

Smitty77

It looks like the numbers I quoted were from the post-season.  

Regular season, you get anomalies like David Lee ranking #3 in the NBA, and Kobe being 15th, or David West #24 and Kevin Garnett #43.  My point still remains:  it makes no sense to evaluate trades based upon Eff. Rating.

[Smitty77]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

[BballTim]

Roy,

I am sure that what you typed must have been a typo.  JRich was 77th for the regular season and Durant was #2.

Smitty77

It looks like the numbers I quoted were from the post-season.  

Regular season, you get anomalies like David Lee ranking #3 in the NBA, and Kobe being 15th, or David West #24 and Kevin Garnett #43.  My point still remains:  it makes no sense to evaluate trades based upon Eff. Rating.

  Don't tell Hollinger that. It will throw his entire view of the universe askew.

[indeedproceed]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

[housecall]

Utah need to be careful. They are close to losing Deron Williams.

I don't think this deal in itself will have much of an impact ... but they need to start turning things around and moving in the right direction again before their lack of ambition becomes too much for Deron to handle.

TP,good point...seems to be happening all over the league.I wouldn't blame him if he did if things start to go in the wrong direction.

[snively]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

Diaw is "phenomenal" as a big man passer.  That's probably his defining characteristic.

[indeedproceed]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

Diaw is "phenomenal" as a big man passer.  That's probably his defining characteristic.

I thought what defined him as a player was that he didn't have any one skill that defined him as a player.

Shoots okay, passes okay, defends okay, but doesn't do any one of those things at an elite, defining level.

[PosImpos]

If this trade went through, I'd say the Bobcats are still missing a legit big man, particularly a true starting center.  Even with Devin Harris they'll still lack shooting and, in general, players who are gifted scorers.  No post threat, either.

I don't see them being much better than last year.  1st round exit.  Still, trading Diaw and getting back Devin Harris, even if you have to give up some picks, sounds like a solid deal.

The Nets would be a lot better, but they'd be missing a point guard.  You need somebody to orchestrate the offense in order to get the ball to the shooters, Melo, and Lopez.  Jordan Farmar isn't that guy.  I'd expect a dicey first year from that group.

The Nuggets would be significantly worse.  Billups becomes the best scorer on the team, which is bad.  Unless Favors turns into a real star, they're headed downhill real quick.  But they'll be in a much better position than Toronto or Cleveland, so I can't say I'd blame them.

Trade makes sense for Utah, too.  AK is injured a lot and makes way more money than he's worth at this point.  Not sure how Diaw fits on their roster, though, unless he can really fit in at the 3 (though he'd probably fit as well as AK did, which is to say not great).

[Drucci]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

Diaw is "phenomenal" as a big man passer.  That's probably his defining characteristic.

I thought what defined him as a player was that he didn't have any one skill that defined him as a player.

Shoots okay, passes okay, defends okay, but doesn't do any one of those things at an elite, defining level.

No, Diaw really is a phenomenal passer, not only for a "big man" but a great passer in general. It is his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness actually, because he tends to overpass and he is always looking to pass the ball even when he has an open shot or when he is in the paint and just has to score.

He really has good offensive moves too but he prefers to shoot 3's or pass so he is a very frustrating player because he always makes you think he could do much more but he never does (or rarely). However, I think playing under Sloan's system, he could really reboost his career and be a great addition for this Jazz team.

[moiso]

Roy,

I understand and partially agree with your point.  That being said, Diaw, I believe, is a heady player that might be closer to a +17-18 ER bec. he does the little things that go unnoticed by such rankings.

Same can clearly be said concerning KG for us.  I am NOT comparing Diaw and KG, just the fact that both have lower ER's than they both deserve.  Diaw is a phenomenal passer for a big man and is a very efficient shooter.  He simply needs to shoot more IMHO.

Smitty77

I don't think anything about Diaw's passing could be phenomenal. Better than most big men, but not phenomenal.

Diaw is "phenomenal" as a big man passer.  That's probably his defining characteristic.

I thought what defined him as a player was that he didn't have any one skill that defined him as a player.

Shoots okay, passes okay, defends okay, but doesn't do any one of those things at an elite, defining level.

No, Diaw really is a phenomenal passer, not only for a "big man" but a great passer in general. It is his biggest strength but also his biggest weakness actually, because he tends to overpass and he is always looking to pass the ball even when he has an open shot or when he is in the paint and just has to score.

He really has good offensive moves too but he prefers to shoot 3's or pass so he is a very frustrating player because he always makes you think he could do much more but he never does (or rarely). However, I think playing under Sloan's system, he could really reboost his career and be a great addition for this Jazz team.

Losing 20lbs would help his career also.  He fills his shorts like Quinten Richardson did a couple years ago.