Jamal Crawford to ask for trade...

[Snakehead]

Crawford, Bibby, and Josh Smith for Carmelo and Billups works, and doesn't seem too unreasonable for either team. Obviously it's better for Atlanta, but is Denver going to do better than Josh Smith on a reasonable contract in exchange for Carmelo?

No, and Bibby off the bench is not a bad situation for Denver.

I love that trade.  Denver probably won't get a better deal.  Initially I was thinking Marvin Williams instead of Bibby, but his contract is actually pretty terrible. 

The Hawks would be a pretty formidable team:
Billups/Teague
Johnson/Evans
Melo/Evans
Horford/Powell
Zaza/Collins

They would really only need 1 backup wing since JJ and Melo would get so many minutes.

I would like the matchups with Miami too.  This would be the trade that would put Atlanta right into title contention.  And it would also free up the PF spot for Horford.  He's already an All Star at the center position, he'd be even better at the four.

I think it makes them a better team in some ways but I think that team is seriously weak at C.  Zaza is a solid backup but a starter?  And the backups at C are pretty bad.

You could play some Horford at C, but then the PF options aren't great.  Josh Smith is very important to that team.

A Billups/Evans/Johnson/Melo/Horford lineup would be very interesting on that squad though.  And I do think they are good, but I think Smith is sorely missed and the big depth is awful.



What about K-Mart though?  I think you throw him in that trade and things get more interesting for Atlanta.  Say the trade is Melo and K-Mart for Crawford, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams.

Then ATL is:

Bibby/Teague
Joe Johnson/Evans
Melo/Evans
K-Mart/Powell
Horford/Zaza/Collins


So you still have Horford at C, but unless this team can add a good enough C, Horford being a little out of position is still better and with Melo they become a more offensive team that has enough scoring to make up for that.  They become undersized but can score with the best.  Bench is weaker for sure, but that starting unit is pretty [dang] strong.

I know I would love to pry Josh Smith from ATL.  One of my favorite players and last year he finally became a very smart player by having far better shot selection (aka not taking 3's anymore).  He is just so great in the open court.

[greg_kite]

Crawford, Bibby, and Josh Smith for Carmelo and Billups works, and doesn't seem too unreasonable for either team. Obviously it's better for Atlanta, but is Denver going to do better than Josh Smith on a reasonable contract in exchange for Carmelo?

No, and Bibby off the bench is not a bad situation for Denver.

I love that trade.  Denver probably won't get a better deal.  Initially I was thinking Marvin Williams instead of Bibby, but his contract is actually pretty terrible. 

The Hawks would be a pretty formidable team:
Billups/Teague
Johnson/Evans
Melo/Evans
Horford/Powell
Zaza/Collins

They would really only need 1 backup wing since JJ and Melo would get so many minutes.

I would like the matchups with Miami too.  This would be the trade that would put Atlanta right into title contention.  And it would also free up the PF spot for Horford.  He's already an All Star at the center position, he'd be even better at the four.

What about K-Mart though?  I think you throw him in that trade and things get more interesting for Atlanta.  Say the trade is Melo and K-Mart for Crawford, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams.

I'm not sure Denver would be willing to take on Marvin Williams' contract.  And I actually missed that when putting together the Hawks lineup.  He would be Atlanta's 6th man and could play backup 3 or 4 and allow Atlanta to go small with Williams at the 4 and Horford at the 5.  Plus, Martin is an expiring contract that will could be partially paid for by insurance if he misses enough time.  I think he's a valuable trade chip for Denver's rebuilding.  As is, the trade is pretty lopsided in Atlanta's favor.  No need for Denver to take on a bad contract.

As far as Zaza starting, I don't think he's any worse than Miami's starting center.  And the upgrade with Melo and Billups at the 1 and 3 would be significantly better than the downgrade at the 5.  If they want to win now I think they could do better than Martin. 

Martin can't do anything against guys like Bosh, KG or Gasol.  Horford can.  I think you also have to think about playoff matchups more than regular season lineups.  A small PF like Martin might get you more wins against smaller teams, but when you think of the true contenters they have tall PFs and so so  centers(besides LA).  If you have Horford at the 4 he can hold his own with the big PFs.  But he would be undersized against Shaq, Bynum and even Z.  I think Atl will need to figure out a way to go big to match up with those teams. And Boston would be the only team that would have a PG even close to Billups.
I think KMart is also out for the beginning of the season and has a terrible injury history.

[Snakehead]

Crawford, Bibby, and Josh Smith for Carmelo and Billups works, and doesn't seem too unreasonable for either team. Obviously it's better for Atlanta, but is Denver going to do better than Josh Smith on a reasonable contract in exchange for Carmelo?

No, and Bibby off the bench is not a bad situation for Denver.

I love that trade.  Denver probably won't get a better deal.  Initially I was thinking Marvin Williams instead of Bibby, but his contract is actually pretty terrible. 

The Hawks would be a pretty formidable team:
Billups/Teague
Johnson/Evans
Melo/Evans
Horford/Powell
Zaza/Collins

They would really only need 1 backup wing since JJ and Melo would get so many minutes.

I would like the matchups with Miami too.  This would be the trade that would put Atlanta right into title contention.  And it would also free up the PF spot for Horford.  He's already an All Star at the center position, he'd be even better at the four.

What about K-Mart though?  I think you throw him in that trade and things get more interesting for Atlanta.  Say the trade is Melo and K-Mart for Crawford, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams.

I'm not sure Denver would be willing to take on Marvin Williams' contract.  And I actually missed that when putting together the Hawks lineup.  He would be Atlanta's 6th man and could play backup 3 or 4 and allow Atlanta to go small with Williams at the 4 and Horford at the 5.  Plus, Martin is an expiring contract that will could be partially paid for by insurance if he misses enough time.  I think he's a valuable trade chip for Denver's rebuilding.  As is, the trade is pretty lopsided in Atlanta's favor.  No need for Denver to take on a bad contract.

As far as Zaza starting, I don't think he's any worse than Miami's starting center.  And the upgrade with Melo and Billups at the 1 and 3 would be significantly better than the downgrade at the 5.  If they want to win now I think they could do better than Martin. 

Martin can't do anything against guys like Bosh, KG or Gasol.  Horford can.  I think you also have to think about playoff matchups more than regular season lineups.  A small PF like Martin might get you more wins against smaller teams, but when you think of the true contenters they have tall PFs and so so  centers(besides LA).  If you have Horford at the 4 he can hold his own with the big PFs.  But he would be undersized against Shaq, Bynum and even Z.  I think Atl will need to figure out a way to go big to match up with those teams. And Boston would be the only team that would have a PG even close to Billups.
I think KMart is also out for the beginning of the season and has a terrible injury history.

I think you're underrating a healthy K-Mart.  He still plays great D on any PF's.  IF he's healthy though.  I agree on his injury history, but healthy he can still defend and rebound.

The downgrade at the 5 can't make up for the rest though.  That team would be terribly weak inside.  If they already were destroyed by the Magic and Dwight Howard with Josh Smith, Horford, and Zaza, without Smith plus no other C's they are absolutely screwed.  No chance, and with our upgrades in the low post they would matchup terribly with us as well. 

Sure, Horford at PF would be nice but if you have Zaza as your starting C and Collins coming off the bench you are very weak at C and I don't see how the PF match up makes up for that.

And are you saying Billups is better than Rondo?  Because Rondo is much better than Billups at this point.  I think Billups is still pretty good but has fallen off from what he was.  I'm not sure who you think Billups is better than, but in the East I'd much rather have Rondo or Rose.

[greg_kite]

Crawford, Bibby, and Josh Smith for Carmelo and Billups works, and doesn't seem too unreasonable for either team. Obviously it's better for Atlanta, but is Denver going to do better than Josh Smith on a reasonable contract in exchange for Carmelo?

No, and Bibby off the bench is not a bad situation for Denver.

I love that trade.  Denver probably won't get a better deal.  Initially I was thinking Marvin Williams instead of Bibby, but his contract is actually pretty terrible. 

The Hawks would be a pretty formidable team:
Billups/Teague
Johnson/Evans
Melo/Evans
Horford/Powell
Zaza/Collins

They would really only need 1 backup wing since JJ and Melo would get so many minutes.

I would like the matchups with Miami too.  This would be the trade that would put Atlanta right into title contention.  And it would also free up the PF spot for Horford.  He's already an All Star at the center position, he'd be even better at the four.

What about K-Mart though?  I think you throw him in that trade and things get more interesting for Atlanta.  Say the trade is Melo and K-Mart for Crawford, Josh Smith, and Marvin Williams.

I'm not sure Denver would be willing to take on Marvin Williams' contract.  And I actually missed that when putting together the Hawks lineup.  He would be Atlanta's 6th man and could play backup 3 or 4 and allow Atlanta to go small with Williams at the 4 and Horford at the 5.  Plus, Martin is an expiring contract that will could be partially paid for by insurance if he misses enough time.  I think he's a valuable trade chip for Denver's rebuilding.  As is, the trade is pretty lopsided in Atlanta's favor.  No need for Denver to take on a bad contract.

As far as Zaza starting, I don't think he's any worse than Miami's starting center.  And the upgrade with Melo and Billups at the 1 and 3 would be significantly better than the downgrade at the 5.  If they want to win now I think they could do better than Martin. 

Martin can't do anything against guys like Bosh, KG or Gasol.  Horford can.  I think you also have to think about playoff matchups more than regular season lineups.  A small PF like Martin might get you more wins against smaller teams, but when you think of the true contenters they have tall PFs and so so  centers(besides LA).  If you have Horford at the 4 he can hold his own with the big PFs.  But he would be undersized against Shaq, Bynum and even Z.  I think Atl will need to figure out a way to go big to match up with those teams. And Boston would be the only team that would have a PG even close to Billups.
I think KMart is also out for the beginning of the season and has a terrible injury history.

I think you're underrating a healthy K-Mart.  He still plays great D on any PF's.  IF he's healthy though.  I agree on his injury history, but healthy he can still defend and rebound.

The downgrade at the 5 can't make up for the rest though.  That team would be terribly weak inside.  If they already were destroyed by the Magic and Dwight Howard with Josh Smith, Horford, and Zaza, without Smith plus no other C's they are absolutely screwed.  No chance, and with our upgrades in the low post they would matchup terribly with us as well. 

Sure, Horford at PF would be nice but if you have Zaza as your starting C and Collins coming off the bench you are very weak at C and I don't see how the PF match up makes up for that.

And are you saying Billups is better than Rondo?  Because Rondo is much better than Billups at this point.  I think Billups is still pretty good but has fallen off from what he was.  I'm not sure who you think Billups is better than, but in the East I'd much rather have Rondo or Rose.

Losing Josh Smith would make them weaker inside, but the upgrades on the perimeter would more than make up for it.  I would have no doubt that they could beat Orlando, even with Zaza covering Howard.  They would have an advantage at every other position.  Martin wouldn't make a difference against Howard any more than Josh Smith did last year.
What I was saying about opposing Centers is that of the real contenders, which I'm not considering Orlando to be, they would be better off with Horford and Zaza in those matchups.  Shaq and Z are better than Zaza, but are they going to dominate a game and make the Hawks pay?  Not at tis age.  And if they wanted to go small they still could with Marvin W at the 4.  At this stage he's about as good as Kmart.
My main point though was why would Denver give up another asset when they are already giving up a lot?

And no, I don't think Chauncey is better than Rondo.  He's a better shooter and clutch scorer, can play some SG if need be but is past his prime.  That said though, I think he might be a better fit on the C's than Rondo just because it would be nice to have a PG that can hit threes and free throws.  Rondo still has room to grow and be a decent shooter.  I just hope he does it before the C's old guys retire.

[Q_FBE]

Jamal Crawford deserves to get traded to Sacremento. Just shut your piehole and play kid.