Who Should be in the HOF?

[GreenFaith1819]

Tom Chambers had some "Ups"....we all know about that dunk he had over Mark Jackson back in the day, but he destroyed big men, too. Robert Reid was a 6'9" SG that got in Tom's way on this play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAmjLaHf1h8

Tom Chambers definitely had game...he belongs in the HOF.As far as Glimore,i say no because the HOF is for players excelling at every level of basketball they've played.When Artis came to the NBA,he did not become a star player,was medicore at best.Some people would say Artis was a big disappointment when he came over to the NBA.tp

I think Gilmore's rap was that he wasn't as vocal as some stars of his day. But several All-Star games and those solid stats speak well for him.

I think the biggest thing with Artis was that he never had a lot of great players around him. From reading Gilmore's Bio, I think he had Dan Issel in CHI, and George Gervin in San Antonio. That's it.

It would've been interesting to see him in LA with Magic - or Boston with Larry.

Tom had a lot of above average-to-great players around him in PHX and SEA, too - Thunder Dan Marle, Kevin Johnson..Xavier McDaniel, Sir Charles, Mark West, Nate McMillan, Dale Ellis...

Artis Gilmore just went about his games doing the dirty work - quietly. From my limited memory of him, he was a monster in the paint, and strong to boot.

[Finkelskyhook]

I feel Jack Sikma and Tom Chambers never got their proper respect by the NBA...for those who didn't witness them play or weren't old enough to understand the game as they might do now,those two players were probably as good as any players they played aganist.I say Sikma got overshadowed by Kareem's success in those days but he was the deadliest outside shooting big man in the NBA for a long period.He could play inside/out equally as good.Pau Gasol couldn't tie these guys sneakers if they were playing in the same playing era..(IMO)

+1

[Celtics Fan]

I love Jack Sikma he was very good.

[Snakehead]

I am not a fan of how most Hall of Fame's are run for sports, and Basketball is among the worst.  It should be a museum basically for the history of the sport.  That includes players who were under the radar but should be known by guys who know their hoops like Chambers or players who even have had character issues, like Rodman.  Rodman is one of the very best rebounders of all time and was a key member of some of the best basketball teams of all time... he belongs in the HOF for sure.

It's not the "Hall of Honorable Players" or "Hall of Good Guys", it's the "Hall of Fame", so it should include all notable players of a certain level IMO.  To use baseball as an example, it should include all players during the steroid era regardless of whatever proof or suspition of PED use because that cannot be proven and it doesn't matter anyways.  Put a note that they used steroids or whatever but they still were an important part of the sport for a time, and that should be what it's all about.

[GreenFaith1819]

I love Jack Sikma he was very good.

Yes he was a Great Center. I remember him mostly from his days in MIL - he had that J and could hit it from long distance. Even with his outside game, he still managed to pull down almost 10 rebs a game.

He gave us fits when he was in MIL back in the 80's.

Now - what about Bill Laimbeer? I'd take him over Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma, or Artis.

Is he in the HOF? If not, then that man should be there, IMO - at least he won a ring with Detroit if I'm not mistaken. That man was tough as nails, and Dirty. I hated to see Boston play aginst him and Rick Mahorn - McNasty and McFilthy. You just know there'd be a fight.

EDIT: "McNasty and McFilthy" were Ric Mahorn and Jeff Ruland from the 80's Washington Bullets (not Pistons). I got my wires crossed there for a minute. My bad.

Bill just seemed to bring out the "Best" in people. I'd never seen Chief get upset until he took Bill out in that game back in the 80's. I haven't found it on Youtube yet, but I did find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtzvACLX0YE

Now how many players get Video Games named after them? This is Too Funny

[GreenFaith1819]

Yep - Bill Laimbeer was an absolute Beast. He may not have had a traditional Big Man post-up game, but if this man isn't in the Hall, then something's not right.

The clip below shows some good highlights of Bill Laimbeer. The man was definitely legit - and a little crazy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMiVs2SInCY&feature=related

Talk about heart - that man was about to fight Charles Barkley if it wasn't for the refs. He may have taken Charles, too..Bill was a strong man.

[Snakehead]

I love Jack Sikma he was very good.

Yes he was a Great Center. I remember him mostly from his days in MIL - he had that J and could hit it from long distance. Even with his outside game, he still managed to pull down almost 10 rebs a game.

He gave us fits when he was in MIL back in the 80's.

Now - what about Bill Laimbeer? I'd take him over Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma, or Artis.

Is he in the HOF? If not, then that man should be there, IMO - at least he won a ring with Detroit if I'm not mistaken. That man was tough as nails, and Dirty. I hated to see Boston play aginst him and Rick Mahorn - McNasty and McFilthy. You just know there'd be a fight.

Bill just seemed to bring out the "Best" in people. I'd never seen Chief get upset until he took Bill out in that game back in the 80's. I haven't found it on Youtube yet, but I did find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtzvACLX0YE

Now how many players get Video Games named after them? This is Too Funny

TP for posting about "Bill Lambeer's Combat Basketball" game.  I used to own that one for my SNES.  Plenty of players had their own games back then, I remember games like Ken Griffey baseball and Bo Jackson's football game in the "2D" days for Genesis, SNES, Nintendo, etc and Kobe even was in the title of a game as late as the N64, Courtside.  Madden is probably the only one from that named era who still has the game named after him. 

But none were funnier than Combat Basketball because of how it took his dirty and physical play to the hilarious extreme with the future combat cyber sport motif.

Those Pistons teams played Combat Basketball every night 

[GreenFaith1819]

Good Grief - I had forgotten about Tom Chambers' 60 pt game:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1fOahHPWfI

I don't know the criteria for the Hall, but there are quite a few players that are right there, it seems.

[Celtics4ever]

Sikma and Laimbeer I could see, Chambers is a stretch but he has the sickest dunk I have ever seen ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyBSTQDwH8

Right over Laker loving Marc Jackson, priceless.

Proof that some white guys can jump.

[GreenFaith1819]

Sikma and Laimbeer I could see, Chambers is a stretch but he has the sickest dunk I have ever seen ever.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDyBSTQDwH8

Right over Laker loving Marc Jackson, priceless.

Proof that some white guys can jump.

Thanks for that post - Tom did that for several years, too.

[Neurotic Guy]

JoJo was my favorite player growing up and I believe he'll be in the hall eventually. And, seeing as he doesn't seem to age, he'll be around to see it.  That said, if the criteria for NBA Hall-worthy were equivalent to MLB, JoJo would be in already.  But, the standard just seems higher in the NBA.

Bernard King's exclusion blows me away.  One thing you can't say about JoJo is that he was undeniably the best at anything at any point in his career.  Well, Bernard King was THE best scorer in the NBA for a period of time.  I don't have time to look at his career stats right now -- but, it had to have been a 5 year stretch where he was unstopable.

Rodman should be in.  He was unique and the best at key elements of the game for an extended period of time.  Who can argue that he is not among the handful of greatest rebounders and defenders of all-time?  That sounds like HOF to me.

I couldn't disagree more re: Horry or his ilk (good, clutch role players) being in the hall.  Not to disparage a wonderful role player and clutch performer -- his feats (prolific championships and clutch plays) should be part of NBA history (and thus in the HOF museum), but he does not rank (IMO) among the greats.

[freshinthehouse]

I'm interested in a credible argument for Dennis Rodman. He was the best rebounder in the league and a good defender but anemic on the offensive end. Was he ever a top-20 player in the NBA during his time? I don't think so. He was a great role player....I don't think that's HOF worthy, even if you do dominate on the boards.

Agreed.  Dude was otherworldly on the boards, and a fine defender early in his career*, but he was horrific on offense.  Anyone that is that awful at such a vital part of the game shouldn't be in the hall.

And when it comes to Artis Gilmore, I have no problem with him not being in the hall.  People that followed the league back in his day rarely have anything good to say about him.  Was the kind of guy that winning didn't mean all that much to.

And guys like Spencer Haywood, Marques Johnson, and Bernard King were fine players, but whether it was because of injuries or drug abuse, they just didn't have enough great years in the league.

I've always wished they had higher standards for getting into the Hall.  It's certainly not a popular sentiment, but I had no problem with DJ not being in the hall.  A fine player, but he never struck me as a surefire HOFer.


*Dude was overrated on D in his years with the Bulls and the Spurs.  His obsession with boards caused his defense to suffer.  He could still crank it up when he wanted to (see 97 Finals vs. Malone), but he coasted a lot on D.

[GreenFaith1819]

I love Jack Sikma he was very good.

Yes he was a Great Center. I remember him mostly from his days in MIL - he had that J and could hit it from long distance. Even with his outside game, he still managed to pull down almost 10 rebs a game.

He gave us fits when he was in MIL back in the 80's.

Now - what about Bill Laimbeer? I'd take him over Tom Chambers, Jack Sikma, or Artis.

Is he in the HOF? If not, then that man should be there, IMO - at least he won a ring with Detroit if I'm not mistaken. That man was tough as nails, and Dirty. I hated to see Boston play aginst him and Rick Mahorn - McNasty and McFilthy. You just know there'd be a fight.

EDIT: "McNasty and McFilthy" were Ric Mahorn and Jeff Ruland - from the Washington Bullets (not Pistons) days of the 80's. I got my wires crossed there for a minute. My bad.

Bill just seemed to bring out the "Best" in people. I'd never seen Chief get upset until he took Bill out in that game back in the 80's. I haven't found it on Youtube yet, but I did find this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtzvACLX0YE

Now how many players get Video Games named after them? This is Too Funny

[GreenFaith1819]

2nd correction - Bill Laimbeer won Two titles.....I hated the blows against Bird and our Celtics (loved the ones against LA ), but other than that this player was one of a kind.

If not in the Hall, then he should be considered. Another video showcasing his strengths a little better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ZKBKIMEWY&feature=related

The stats at the end are impressive, too.

[Snakehead]

I'm interested in a credible argument for Dennis Rodman. He was the best rebounder in the league and a good defender but anemic on the offensive end. Was he ever a top-20 player in the NBA during his time? I don't think so. He was a great role player....I don't think that's HOF worthy, even if you do dominate on the boards.

Agreed.  Dude was otherworldly on the boards, and a fine defender early in his career*, but he was horrific on offense.  Anyone that is that awful at such a vital part of the game shouldn't be in the hall.

And when it comes to Artis Gilmore, I have no problem with him not being in the hall.  People that followed the league back in his day rarely have anything good to say about him.  Was the kind of guy that winning didn't mean all that much to.

And guys like Spencer Haywood, Marques Johnson, and Bernard King were fine players, but whether it was because of injuries or drug abuse, they just didn't have enough great years in the league.

I've always wished they had higher standards for getting into the Hall.  It's certainly not a popular sentiment, but I had no problem with DJ not being in the hall.  A fine player, but he never struck me as a surefire HOFer.


*Dude was overrated on D in his years with the Bulls and the Spurs.  His obsession with boards caused his defense to suffer.  He could still crank it up when he wanted to (see 97 Finals vs. Malone), but he coasted a lot on D.

I disagree about him coasting or being overrated on D, he was good, and remains one of the best rebounders ever.  He was also a part of multiple great Bulls teams, a Dynasty, and a few of the best teams ever.  Alright he was not the best offensive player, but rebounding and defense are huge parts of the game that count for a lot to me. 

Anyone who is a notable and high level player should be able to enter the hall, and Dennis Rodman was that.  In my HOF he would be in.  Being a major part of a dynasty and being one of the best ever at a big part of the game you play (rebounding) is noteworthy.