Interesting Iverson Article

[wdleehi]

Its funny and sad to hear posters criticize Iverson about the practice rant. I wish everyone who posts on this blog could have a camera follow them around constantly and the moment they say or do something stupid it could be blasted over and over again on sportscenter.  

So he missed practice got fined or suspended and then went off.
Similar things happen in everyday life and sometimes alot worse. Without identifying each post I can only hope people on this board hold themselves to such a standard.

bottom line--Iverson gave everything he had on the court.



 

Next time I make millions of dollars on a job and I disrespect my employer, teammates, and fans on live TV... I hope I'm called out.  I do not understand the pity you have for Allen Iverson.  He has consistently shown to be a bad teammate who is concerned with himself before his own team. No matter how talented he is that is the truth.  I'd take Nate Robinson any day and my self the headache.


Nick was dead on with his post.

Larry Brown has forgiven Iverson and has even stuck up for him on occasions. If he can forgive him (his coach at the time) I think fans should let it go to.

Then why didn't he sign him to be his PG?

[GreenFaith1819]

Simply put good teams don't want Iverson because he is a disease that will spread bad karma into the chemistry of a good team.

Bad teams don't want Iverson because they tend to have a lot of young players and want to teach and grow these players instilling these players with the proper work ethics and work habits. Iverson would be disastrous in this scenario.

Mediocre teams wouldn't want Iverson for fear of him not accepting a proper role or direction from the coach or fear that he would become disinterested and quit on them like he has his last three teams.

AI made his own bed. Now he has to sleep in it and unfortunately for him and all you AI fans, that means his career is over.

So Nick - "Is" a disease....or "Was"....(AI)?

So even in the event that AI was this selfish, inconsiderate  player that some made him out to be, you don't think he can change?

Don't you think he has the right of the benefit of the doubt?

That certainly worked well for Detroit and Memphis.

And MEM and DET have not been good the last few years, too - especially DET. Neither made the playoffs, and won't likely do it this year as well.

Just not good situations to place AI in.

The Pistons were in the ECF the year before.  The could only sneak into the playoff the year they traded for AI.

And Memphis, who he quit on last year, had a better record last year the the AI lead Pistons the year before.


What is a good situation for AI since he doesn't come off the bench?

You mean the same DET team that had Michael Curry as coach? That team wasn't going anywhere.

I may have my DET teams confused - but are you sure we are talking about the same DET?

And you say that AI doesn't come off the bench? Who said that? C'mon now wdleehi I don't think that's fair.

[Snakehead]

Its funny and sad to hear posters criticize Iverson about the practice rant. I wish everyone who posts on this blog could have a camera follow them around constantly and the moment they say or do something stupid it could be blasted over and over again on sportscenter.  

So he missed practice got fined or suspended and then went off.
Similar things happen in everyday life and sometimes alot worse. Without identifying each post I can only hope people on this board hold themselves to such a standard.

bottom line--Iverson gave everything he had on the court.



 

Next time I make millions of dollars on a job and I disrespect my employer, teammates, and fans on live TV... I hope I'm called out.  I do not understand the pity you have for Allen Iverson.  He has consistently shown to be a bad teammate who is concerned with himself before his own team. No matter how talented he is that is the truth.  I'd take Nate Robinson any day and my self the headache.


Nick was dead on with his post.

Larry Brown has forgiven Iverson and has even stuck up for him on occasions. If he can forgive him (his coach at the time) I think fans should let it go to.

Trust me, I'm not losing sleep over it, but I don't want my team to bring him in at all.  There are far better investments of money and perhaps Iverson could have some unexpected comeback, but probably the same thing happens that has happened at his last few stops.

Brown isn't paying the money for Iverson to be on the court.  I like Larry Brown, but he kind of just goes through the motions lately so I don't really put much stock into what he says.

[wdleehi]

And you say that AI doesn't come off the bench? Who said that? C'mon now wdleehi I don't think that's fair.

AI.

He signed with Memphis.  They told him before that he would come off the bench.

When the season started and he was on the bench, he quit because he wasn't starting.

[GreenFaith1819]

And you say that AI doesn't come off the bench? Who said that? C'mon now wdleehi I don't think that's fair.

AI.

He signed with Memphis.  They told him before that he would come off the bench.

When the season started and he was on the bench, he quit because he wasn't starting.

Is there any proof of this? There is so much mis-information out there.

Look - I'm not saying that AI is a perfect man. I hated the "Practice" issue, too. But that was 7 years ago.

[GreenFaith1819]

Nick - I see what you are saying, but you are saying things about AI and you have no idea how it could end for him.

"Horrible Investment"? Look, Big Ben from the Steelers seems to have been forgiven....

At the end of the day, I respect yours and wdleehi's frames of thought, and I cannot change that. That is what makes this blog work.

But it is not fair to make assumptions about players based off of suppositions.

So Nick - you really think that AI was a Horrible investment in Philly? AI and Dikembe took Philly almost as far as Moses Malone, Dr J and Charles Barkley - by themselves.

Those two had Tyrone Hill and Aaron Mckie and a few other really good role players, and Philly hasn't been that good since 1983.

AI leaving Philly was just a matter of that team maxing out on their potential, IMO. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, it seemed as if no one was going to beat them.

[celticsclay]

Its funny and sad to hear posters criticize Iverson about the practice rant. I wish everyone who posts on this blog could have a camera follow them around constantly and the moment they say or do something stupid it could be blasted over and over again on sportscenter.  

So he missed practice got fined or suspended and then went off.
Similar things happen in everyday life and sometimes alot worse. Without identifying each post I can only hope people on this board hold themselves to such a standard.

bottom line--Iverson gave everything he had on the court.



 

Next time I make millions of dollars on a job and I disrespect my employer, teammates, and fans on live TV... I hope I'm called out.  I do not understand the pity you have for Allen Iverson.  He has consistently shown to be a bad teammate who is concerned with himself before his own team. No matter how talented he is that is the truth.  I'd take Nate Robinson any day and my self the headache.


Nick was dead on with his post.

Larry Brown has forgiven Iverson and has even stuck up for him on occasions. If he can forgive him (his coach at the time) I think fans should let it go to.

Then why didn't he sign him to be his PG?

To be perfectly honest I think that might be where he ends up...

[nickagneta]

Nick - I see what you are saying, but you are saying things about AI and you have no idea how it could end for him.

"Horrible Investment"? Look, Big Ben from the Steelers seems to have been forgiven....

At the end of the day, I respect yours and wdleehi's frames of thought, and I cannot change that. That is what makes this blog work.

But it is not fair to make assumptions about players based off of suppositions.

So Nick - you really think that AI was a Horrible investment in Philly? AI and Dikembe took Philly almost as far as Moses Malone, Dr J and Charles Barkley - by themselves.

Those two had Tyrone Hill and Aaron Mckie and a few other really good role players, and Philly hasn't been that good since 1983.

AI leaving Philly was just a matter of that team maxing out on their potential, IMO. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, it seemed as if no one was going to beat them.

I never said he was a bad investment in Philly the first time around. I said he ultimately didn't work out because of who he is.

He is a bad investment now though.

Business men that make their money from investing in products will not continue to throw good money after bad money. AI's time in Memphis showed he was a bad investment and Memphis lost money on him. Same thing in Philadelphia. Owners are going to look at the prevalent, immediate investment history of Iverson and determine they are risking too much in the hopes that he changes his ways.

Besides, one thing I know about having friends in high places behind the scenes in college sports is that we in the public usually only see the tip of the iceberg on the bad eggs. People in power of in the NBA KNOW all the crap Iverson brings behind the scenes that never gets out.

He isn't getting another NBA job. He's not worth the risk of investment or the headaches he cause that we never hear of.

[GreenFaith1819]

All I'm saying is this - The Boston Celtics over the last few years have really amazed me as a fan. During this three+ year run, we've seen so many players come through here and help us.

Sure - some didn't work out - but overall the team is still contending, thanks to Danny and Doc.

This team surprised many of us last playoff run. Some said we would get upset by MIA. Didn't happen.

CLE would slaughter us? Boston clamped down on defense and gave Shaq and Lebron few options.

ORL? Paul carried us that series to yet another upset.

And LA? We were one broken Perk and 6 min away from Banner 18.

Thanks Joey Crawford

But seriously - with that being said - why can't we have a wait and see mentality with AI? This Celtics Team certainly showed me that anything is possible.

I cannot quit on AI's potential as a player and human being. I will not cast judgement on a player for something he said 7 years ago.

[celticsclay]

And you say that AI doesn't come off the bench? Who said that? C'mon now wdleehi I don't think that's fair.

AI.

He signed with Memphis.  They told him before that he would come off the bench.

When the season started and he was on the bench, he quit because he wasn't starting.

I completely agree with you on Memphis. That was handled really poorly by iverson. The other situations that have been mentioned I think are a lot less clear. I have posted the playoff box scores for that Detroit team (sans iverson) in another thread. That whole team was under mutinity and it continued long after Iverson was at home. They made a horrible coaching decision with Michael Curry and the whole team was upset, including a former Celtic Rasheed Wallace. Blaming that all on Iverson is just ridiculous. As for last year with Philly, I think its pretty hard to say what happened. I did not hear any negative things about his time with the team and actually read a few fluff pieces about him being a positive influence and the young guys enjoying him being around.

I started this whole thread with what I thought was an interesting article, but not really feeling strongly for iverson or even being a fan of his game. However, this thread has kind of made me pull for the guy cause the venom directed his way is so over the top...

[GreenFaith1819]

Nick - I see what you are saying, but you are saying things about AI and you have no idea how it could end for him.

"Horrible Investment"? Look, Big Ben from the Steelers seems to have been forgiven....

At the end of the day, I respect yours and wdleehi's frames of thought, and I cannot change that. That is what makes this blog work.

But it is not fair to make assumptions about players based off of suppositions.

So Nick - you really think that AI was a Horrible investment in Philly? AI and Dikembe took Philly almost as far as Moses Malone, Dr J and Charles Barkley - by themselves.

Those two had Tyrone Hill and Aaron Mckie and a few other really good role players, and Philly hasn't been that good since 1983.

AI leaving Philly was just a matter of that team maxing out on their potential, IMO. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, it seemed as if no one was going to beat them.

I never said he was a bad investment in Philly the first time around. I said he ultimately didn't work out because of who he is.

He is a bad investment now though.

Business men that make their money from investing in products will not continue to throw good money after bad money. AI's time in Memphis showed he was a bad investment and Memphis lost money on him. Same thing in Philadelphia. Owners are going to look at the prevalent, immediate investment history of Iverson and determine they are risking too much in the hopes that he changes his ways.

Besides, one thing I know about having friends in high places behind the scenes in college sports is that we in the public usually only see the tip of the iceberg on the bad eggs. People in power of in the NBA KNOW all the crap Iverson brings behind the scenes that never gets out.

He isn't getting another NBA job. He's not worth the risk of investment or the headaches he cause that we never hear of.

Nick - I agree with you here - about the behind the scenes issues. That is something to be considered.

But why can't we assume, in your frame of mind - that just maybe..AI has and can change?

And are you willing to bet some Tommy Points that AI won't be on another NBA team this year?

And how about double or nothing if he ends up in Green?

[Snakehead]

Nick - I see what you are saying, but you are saying things about AI and you have no idea how it could end for him.

"Horrible Investment"? Look, Big Ben from the Steelers seems to have been forgiven....

At the end of the day, I respect yours and wdleehi's frames of thought, and I cannot change that. That is what makes this blog work.

But it is not fair to make assumptions about players based off of suppositions.

So Nick - you really think that AI was a Horrible investment in Philly? AI and Dikembe took Philly almost as far as Moses Malone, Dr J and Charles Barkley - by themselves.

Those two had Tyrone Hill and Aaron Mckie and a few other really good role players, and Philly hasn't been that good since 1983.

AI leaving Philly was just a matter of that team maxing out on their potential, IMO. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, it seemed as if no one was going to beat them.

I never said he was a bad investment in Philly the first time around. I said he ultimately didn't work out because of who he is.

He is a bad investment now though.

Business men that make their money from investing in products will not continue to throw good money after bad money. AI's time in Memphis showed he was a bad investment and Memphis lost money on him. Same thing in Philadelphia. Owners are going to look at the prevalent, immediate investment history of Iverson and determine they are risking too much in the hopes that he changes his ways.

Besides, one thing I know about having friends in high places behind the scenes in college sports is that we in the public usually only see the tip of the iceberg on the bad eggs. People in power of in the NBA KNOW all the crap Iverson brings behind the scenes that never gets out.

He isn't getting another NBA job. He's not worth the risk of investment or the headaches he cause that we never hear of.

Nick is saving me posts.  And the Ben Rothlesburger comparison, like the LeBron comparison (regarding "The Decision") does not apply because those two are amazing players that are not selfish on the court.  LeBron especially, but regardless of Rothlisburger's complete lack of class and character he remains one of the top 5 most talented QB's and one of it's most clutch QB's, one that can win you a Super Bowl.

I started this whole thread with what I thought was an interesting article, but not really feeling strongly for iverson or even being a fan of his game. However, this thread has kind of made me pull for the guy cause the venom directed his way is so over the top...

It's not so much venom as the hope he never is on the Celtics.  For Allen Iverson, you end up with whatever you created over the course of your career.  These things were not hoisted upon him out of nowhere.  Maybe he could deserve another chance but a few teams have tried and failed, so why bother.

[GreenFaith1819]

So Snakehead - Big Ben wasn't selfish...on the field.

But don't you think that he was selfish off of it by his actions?

And yet he will be welcomed back into Pitt, and probably get only 4 games for his tomfoolery.

And you think Lebron is Amazing? Only Spiderman is amazing.

I cannot trust anyone like that after "The Decision." That right there showed me that nothing is sacred anymore.

[celticsclay]

I am surprised how much of a heated back and forth this has become. I do honestly believe that he could help a team and think he is kind of in a situation similar to Terrel Owens. Obviously I also think Owens will help the Bengals a lot this year. People that think there is no chance of Iverson reinventing himself must not be patriots fans. About three years ago a guy by the name of Randy Moss was barely worth a 4th round draft pick after repeated problems in Minnesota (legal and on field) then being accused of completely quitting on the Raiders. I know they are different sports, but I think you could say Iverson has a lot in common with Owens and previously Moss. PS save your air on Iverson being more washed up cause both players were on the wrong side of 30 when these things happened and Owens is completely aincient by NFL standards. I am not sure if Iverson will sign anywhere, but counting him completely off seems premature...

NBA is different the the NFL.


The Moss we see with the Patriots looks a lot like the Moss with the Vikings.  He had a bad stop.


There is nothing in AI's history that shows he could play a smaller role off the bench.

And honestly, the Celtics already have two small guards that play.

Lets be fair here Moss had a lot of issues with the vikings too
Here are his three biggest with the vikings from his wiki page. Notice he was accused of quitting on the vikings previous to the raiders.

Traffic incident

On September 24, 2002 in downtown Minneapolis, Minnesota, Moss was driving and was preparing to make an illegal turn. A traffic control officer, noticing what he was about to do, stood in front of his car, ordering him to stop. Eyewitness accounts of the event differ at this point, but Moss did not comply with the officer's order, and she was bumped by his vehicle and fell to the ground. Moss was arrested, and a search of his vehicle revealed a small amount of marijuana.[49] Initially charged with felony Suspicion of Assault with a Deadly Weapon and a misdemeanor marijuana possession, Moss pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor traffic violation and was ordered to pay a $1,200 fine and perform 40 hours of community service.[50]
Leaving the field during a game

During the last game of the 2004 regular season against the Washington Redskins and with two seconds remaining on the game clock, Moss walked off the field and into the locker room; critics criticized Moss for quitting on his team.[51] Moss stated afterward that he didn’t think Minnesota, who ended up losing 21-18 to Washington, would recover the onside kick.[52]
Playoff mooning incident

On January 9, 2005, the Minnesota Vikings traveled to division rival Green Bay to take on the heavily favored Packers in an NFC wildcard playoff game. Moss finished the game with 4 catches for 70 yards and two touchdowns in the 31-17 win. After the second score, Moss trotted to the end zone goalpost and, facing away from the crowd, feigned pulling down his pants to moon the Green Bay fans. TV announcer Joe Buck, calling the game, was incensed, calling it "a disgusting act" on-air. Days later, the NFL fined him $10,000, finding it "unsportsmanlike" and "offensive" during the playoffs. However, then-Indianapolis Colts head coach Tony Dungy, the former Vikings defensive coordinator, explained Moss' action by pointing out that Packers fans are infamous for actually mooning the buses of departing opponents after a loss,[53] unlike Moss' fully-clothed imitation.

In the latter stages of his NFL career, particularly for a wide receiver relying on speed, moss has shown to be a changed man in new england and has not had any off the field incidents or people accusing him of quitting.

We got awful quiet on the moss comparison after I pointed out his being accused of quitting on two teams along with many other legal charges (which iverson really hasnt had much of). If are gonna throw out the other comparisons, why not address this one?

[nickagneta]

Nick - I see what you are saying, but you are saying things about AI and you have no idea how it could end for him.

"Horrible Investment"? Look, Big Ben from the Steelers seems to have been forgiven....

At the end of the day, I respect yours and wdleehi's frames of thought, and I cannot change that. That is what makes this blog work.

But it is not fair to make assumptions about players based off of suppositions.

So Nick - you really think that AI was a Horrible investment in Philly? AI and Dikembe took Philly almost as far as Moses Malone, Dr J and Charles Barkley - by themselves.

Those two had Tyrone Hill and Aaron Mckie and a few other really good role players, and Philly hasn't been that good since 1983.

AI leaving Philly was just a matter of that team maxing out on their potential, IMO. As long as Shaq and Kobe were together, it seemed as if no one was going to beat them.

I never said he was a bad investment in Philly the first time around. I said he ultimately didn't work out because of who he is.

He is a bad investment now though.

Business men that make their money from investing in products will not continue to throw good money after bad money. AI's time in Memphis showed he was a bad investment and Memphis lost money on him. Same thing in Philadelphia. Owners are going to look at the prevalent, immediate investment history of Iverson and determine they are risking too much in the hopes that he changes his ways.

Besides, one thing I know about having friends in high places behind the scenes in college sports is that we in the public usually only see the tip of the iceberg on the bad eggs. People in power of in the NBA KNOW all the crap Iverson brings behind the scenes that never gets out.

He isn't getting another NBA job. He's not worth the risk of investment or the headaches he cause that we never hear of.

Nick - I agree with you here - about the behind the scenes issues. That is something to be considered.

But why can't we assume, in your frame of mind - that just maybe..AI has and can change?

And are you willing to bet some Tommy Points that AI won't be on another NBA team this year?

And how about double or nothing if he ends up in Green?

Well, number one because I know people that know Iverson personally. They dated his room mate when they went to Howard University and AI was in Georgetown. He was a major punk and more in love with himself than that person could even describe, and shes a graduate of Howard and she made her speechless in his punk-a-tude.

She has kept in touch with people in AI's inner circle. She assures me he is a despicable person to know in real life and behind the scenes. His ego is said to enter a room 15 minutes before he does it is so big.

Stories I have heard really do not paint a pretty picture and much of his public persona is nice nice stuff compared to what I have heard. He's a classless punk who is just in love with himself and and what he thinks he brings to this world.