Interesting Iverson Article

[Finkelskyhook]

Plus, can anyone imagine what a yr or two under Doc Rivers could do for AI? AI, even at this age, would become a better player under Doc Rivers.

If Doc could improve Antoine Walker's game, then AI would be easy for Doc. Doc (and Danny), were All-Star Guards themselves.

I saw Toine as a "Volume Shooter" before Doc got a hold of him. Under Doc, Toine improved in several categories.

Then the man went to MIA and won a championship.

Doc (and our Vets) could do wonders for AI - if we needed to bring him onboard. I know for a fact that AI would do whatever needed to be done to get a Ring. I've never met the man of course, but I cannot accept that he is as selfish as some believe he is.

Not to switch subjects but Antoine always got a bad rap about being a volume shooter and heaving up alot of 3's but I think that was O'brien's doing. O'brien's thing was playing tight D but as for offense he was all about giving the green light for anyone with range to shoot. It wasn't just toine , back in 2002 we had guys like Mccarty , Rogers , delk , williams & of course pierce who were pretty much hoisting up any shot they can take. Doc's a great coach but I don't think it's right to credit him with "taming" toine. I believe any new coach would've done so. As did Riely when he went to miami that year.

Make a career malcontent like Iverson a "better person" like Rivers did Ricky Davis, Banks, Blount, etc etc??

I don't see Rivers as being more effective at making a jerk like Iverson a better person or a more compliant one than any of Iverson's previous coaches.  He's an uncoachable stat hound.

[Eric_Suede]

Back to the point , I think AI is still a good player and deserves a slot on the team. I'll agree he needs a slice of humble pie and accept a reduced role if he's picked up by a contender or playoff team. Otherwise if he's playing on an awful squad that won't be smelling the playoffs for at least 3 years, I see no reason why he has to degrade himself and play behind puppies who can't get it done on the court.
 I'm soooo on his side with his feelings in Memphis. yeah sure Conley is going to be a superstar , playing AI would've hindered his development into the premier coveted gem he is today  . Dude if a team like cleveland,Minnesota, sacramento or the Nets would pick him up, I see NO REASON for him to come off the bench.

[GreenFaith1819]

Plus, can anyone imagine what a yr or two under Doc Rivers could do for AI? AI, even at this age, would become a better player under Doc Rivers.

If Doc could improve Antoine Walker's game, then AI would be easy for Doc. Doc (and Danny), were All-Star Guards themselves.

I saw Toine as a "Volume Shooter" before Doc got a hold of him. Under Doc, Toine improved in several categories.

Then the man went to MIA and won a championship.

Doc (and our Vets) could do wonders for AI - if we needed to bring him onboard. I know for a fact that AI would do whatever needed to be done to get a Ring. I've never met the man of course, but I cannot accept that he is as selfish as some believe he is.

Not to switch subjects but Antoine always got a bad rap about being a volume shooter and heaving up alot of 3's but I think that was O'brien's doing. O'brien's thing was playing tight D but as for offense he was all about giving the green light for anyone with range to shoot. It wasn't just toine , back in 2002 we had guys like Mccarty , Rogers , delk , williams & of course pierce who were pretty much hoisting up any shot they can take. Doc's a great coach but I don't think it's right to credit him with "taming" toine. I believe any new coach would've done so. As did Riely when he went to miami that year.

Good Point - who can ever forget "Waltuh" putting up those threes? O'brien did have a different scheme. Those were the days.

I'm basing my Antoine comments, though, off of the stats below:

http://www.nba.com/historical/playerfile/index.html?player=antoine_walker

It is true that he only played 25 games under Doc in 2004-05, but he seemed to do better as a shooter under him. The same can be said for Paul - he became a better player under Doc over the yrs.

[Snakehead]

Compelling Article, and I must say - true.

And even with all of the alleged "Bad Teammate, selfish player", comments over the years, no one can provide any proof of such.

Allen Iverson must not be too bad a player or person, because I read somewhere before that Red would've loved him in Green, and we were also rumored to try and trade Big Al for him back a few years ago - to team with Paul Pierce.

I don't think we've seen the last of him.

"Practice?  You're going to talk to me about PRACTICE?!"

Do you remember that?  Because that was clear as day and one of the biggest examples of insubordination, disrespect to the team, bad work ethic, etc publically displayed in American sports.  Iverson is not an angel.  He is not a bad guy but he has been selfish and is not a very good team mate.  Super talented but not the best player overall because of these weaknesses in his character.

If he could accept a reduced role and be a positive member of a team someone would pick him up.  He still seems unable to accept this.  Like others have pointed out, Shaq and T-Mac found homes by eating some humble pie and accepting reduced roles and a lot less money.

Good Point, SH. I had not forgotten about that episode in AI's life. I think he has moved on from that and recognize that what he said then was wrong. That was what 7 yrs ago?

I think 7 yrs from now even "The Decision" will be an afterthought.

Unfortunately, though - I believe he is still characterized by that one bad mistake, even to this day. That is not right.

And is there anything written anywhere about him not accepting a reduced role? I keep seeing it here on the blog, but no one can find any documentation about it. I've searched the web, already.

I think there are a lot of suppositions with AI. His reasons for leaving MEM and PHI over the last two yrs were not due to team issues, if I'm not mistaken. I thought he had medical issues with his child?

I may be an AI supporter, but I know he isn't perfect. However, I believe he can still help a contender.

I don't think we have a need for him with our roster as it stands now, but it would be very interesting to me to see him around vets like Paul, Ray, KG, soon to be "Dr. O'Neal", J.O, etc. In his defense, he has not had that kind of leadership around him B4.

The unwillingness to accept a smaller role was a rap put on him in Memphis.  He didn't want to be an off the bench guy to give their young talent the prominent role that they should of (not being a contender, they should be developing their young talent first and foremost)

The "medical issues with his child" seemed to me to be very much a way for both sides to part amicably.  The teams did not want to trash AI, but it wasn't working out.  I could be wrong about that, but have you heard anything else about the health of his child? I know I didn't.

This stuff on AI isn't concrete, but I know I've heard it before from different people and teams don't come out and trash players publically very often.  As for now, if some team had a discussion with AI about playing in a bench role and he refused, they wouldn't come out publically and say that either, so there will be no source like that.

What would happen if AI wasn't willing to accept a reduced role?  AI wouldn't be picked up by anyone.  That's what has seemed to happen.  I think his rap is worse than it probably deserves to be, but everyone knows the talent he has.  Some teams have to of talked to AI, and it must not of went well.

And 7 years is still reasonably long enough to let the "Practice?!" debacle hang around AI IMO.  That was a very poor show of character and as a teammate.  I have never seen anything worse publically.  Other guys may have made dumb moves, but none that so clearly show a lack of concern for the team that pays their salary.  If AI had done anything over the years to seriously dispell that image of him that would be one thing, but he has not.

Comparing that to the Decision?  LeBron may have went too far there but on the court LeBron is very unselfish and is a willing passer.  He works hard and has had a great relationship with pretty much every teammate he has ever had.  So I don't think you can compare the two in a basketball sense.

I think we would probably have the best situation for him out of anyone, but we don't need a 1/2 guard.

[GreenFaith1819]

SH - I can see your reasoning with your first two paragraphs - if this was in fact the case in MEM. In AI's defense, though, can you you imagine him coming off the bench for Mike Conley? As a PG, I haven't seen Mike Conley really hit his stride yet. In your scenario, AI could've helped Mike develop, but I know that AI could've done better than Mike's 12 pts and 5.3 assists.

I can see where, in that case - there could've been some conflict.

But the "Practice" issue? Yeah, that's a dead horse, IMO. it is unfair to keep something like that over a player's head - but that's just me.

I've seen Bigger Fish to fry in the NFL, Golf, MLB - and yet we as a Sports-Driven public can move on with it, no matter how bad it seems.

This is unfortunately not the case in AI.

In watching him throughout the years, AI never gave up...it is interesting how oftentimes he was the smallest player on the court, but would go to the basket with reckless abandon, get knocked down, and got back up every time.

AI has nearly taken Philly as far as Dr. J, Moses and Sir Charles did back in the day. Besides having Mutumbo, the remaining roster for AI's philly squads were Mckie, Tyrone Hill, etc - good players, but mostly role players.

TP for the discussion, though.

[Snakehead]

SH - I can see your reasoning with your first two paragraphs - if this was in fact the case in MEM. In AI's defense, though, can you you imagine him coming off the bench for Mike Conley? As a PG, I haven't seen Mike Conley really hit his stride yet. In your scenario, AI could've helped Mike develop, but I know that AI could've done better than Mike's 12 pts and 5.3 assists.

I can see where, in that case - there could've been some conflict.

But the "Practice" issue? Yeah, that's a dead horse, IMO. it is unfair to keep something like that over a player's head - but that's just me.

I've seen Bigger Fish to fry in the NFL, Golf, MLB - and yet we as a Sports-Driven public can move on with it, no matter how bad it seems.

This is unfortunately not the case in AI.

In watching him throughout the years, AI never gave up...it is interesting how oftentimes he was the smallest player on the court, but would go to the basket with reckless abandon, get knocked down, and got back up every time.

AI has nearly taken Philly as far as Dr. J, Moses and Sir Charles did back in the day. Besides having Mutumbo, the remaining roster for AI's philly squads were Mckie, Tyrone Hill, etc - good players, but mostly role players.

TP for the discussion, though.

I know what you mean with Mike Conley but a) Conley is not a total scrub and b) he has promise and is clearly the teams future PG... there is value there that must be cultivated with plenty of playing time especially with the first unit to develop chemistry.

I see scorers like Terry and JR Smith and Crawford, they are veterans and are more talented than guys that play in front of them, but still come off the bench and fans love them and players respect them. They may not get the start stat, but they often times play in the crunch time and that is what should be most important to a good basketball player. This could of been AI but it hasn't happend like that.

I feel like the best evidence that these things we always hear about his character but don't get concrete info on are true is that Iverson isn't working.  Because despite my issues with his attitude, I know how talented AI is and he has a ton of passion for the game.  We all saw him cry at that press conference recently.  I do not question his emotions and passion but I don't think that makes you a good teammate neccesarily.  I know in my much, much more limited basketball career I played with talented players who cared a ton but still were not good teammates due to attitude.

And I do not question AI's legacy certainly.  The only worse team aside from one star player I remember in the Finals than AI's 76ers squad was LeBron's Cavs team that got killed by the Spurs in the Finals a few years back.  He was a great player that cared a lot but I do not think he was ever the teammate he could of been.

Good points though and I get where you're coming from.  I know all my points don't have clear support I can point to but I just feel that actions speak loudest and AI does not have a job.

[celticsclay]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

[Finkelskyhook]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

......And then there's reality....

[Celtics4ever]

Where would he play? At this point Nate is probably better than him.

[GreenFaith1819]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

Thanks for the post, CC. I know Boston is set right now, but Man......what if....

Just call Boston the Stopping Point for deserving NBA veterans. We got PJ Brown a ring...Sam Casell picked another one up from us.

We almost got two for Sheed...If KG hadn't went down in 08-09, Marbury would've picked one up, too. I just know that Marbury would've given LA fits in the finals in 08-09. Marbury came in and fit into our system.

That says a lot about an organization that can bring in players that may not fit in most places, but they thrive here.

I know that AI would do the same.

[celticsclay]

For whatever it is worth this is what Iverson has said this offseason: "I want to return to the NBA this season, and help any team that wants me, in any capacity that they feel that I can help. I'm disappointed, and I owe my fans more than what they have seen of me the last couple seasons. However, now that my family is healthy and rock solid, I can concentrate fully on doing what I do best."

Seems the issue with his child are resolved and at least publicly he is saying he will take on any role. He also seems to have been humbled like Shaq and McGrady. It also seems like some people have put words in his mouth this thread a bit....

The quote comes from Iverson's twitter account....

......And then there's reality....

How does your post contribute anything?  A few posters asked if Iverson had said anything about not accepting a reserved role, i provided a statement from him as a resource. If you have nothing besides a pointless one liner, why bother?

[GreenFaith1819]

Where would he play? At this point Nate is probably better than him.

Yep - Nate is better than AI right now...only way I could see a door opening for AI to come here is if Nate went down with an injury. That would hurt us big time, IMO. Nate would start on some teams right now, but to have him locked up for us for 2 yrs is a steal, I think.

Thanks again, Danny.

[celticsclay]

Where would he play? At this point Nate is probably better than him.

Yep - Nate is better than AI right now...only way I could see a door opening for AI to come here is if Nate went down with an injury. That would hurt us big time, IMO. Nate would start on some teams right now, but to have him locked up for us for 2 yrs is a steal, I think.

Thanks again, Danny.

To be clear I was not saying that we should sign him, and don't think too many posters were. This was more in response to the article saying it was odd iverson was not even offered a minimum contract with any team.

[GreenFaith1819]

Where would he play? At this point Nate is probably better than him.

Yep - Nate is better than AI right now...only way I could see a door opening for AI to come here is if Nate went down with an injury. That would hurt us big time, IMO. Nate would start on some teams right now, but to have him locked up for us for 2 yrs is a steal, I think.

Thanks again, Danny.

To be clear I was not saying that we should sign him, and don't think too many posters were. This was more in response to the article saying it was odd iverson was not even offered a minimum contract with any team.

I'm in agreement here, as well. My only criteria for signing AI was if Nate got hurt for the season.

As for why others haven't signed him? Well, IMO, I don't see him wanting to go to MIA. Based off of his comments about the NBA being "fake" (in reference to the charity events), I don't see him liking the limelight in MIA right now. Of course this is just my speculation as Joe Fan - nothing else.

ORL? They seem to be set as far as their backcourt. CHI? Not sure.

I think this leads back to the original article, and why it appears as if AI has been unfairly blackballed by the NBA. Yes - some of this falls on him, but still......

[guava_wrench]

Where would he play? At this point Nate is probably better than him.

Yep - Nate is better than AI right now...only way I could see a door opening for AI to come here is if Nate went down with an injury. That would hurt us big time, IMO. Nate would start on some teams right now, but to have him locked up for us for 2 yrs is a steal, I think.

Thanks again, Danny.

To be clear I was not saying that we should sign him, and don't think too many posters were. This was more in response to the article saying it was odd iverson was not even offered a minimum contract with any team.

I'm in agreement here, as well. My only criteria for signing AI was if Nate got hurt for the season.

As for why others haven't signed him? Well, IMO, I don't see him wanting to go to MIA. Based off of his comments about the NBA being "fake" (in reference to the charity events), I don't see him liking the limelight in MIA right now. Of course this is just my speculation as Joe Fan - nothing else.

ORL? They seem to be set as far as their backcourt. CHI? Not sure.

I think this leads back to the original article, and why it appears as if AI has been unfairly blackballed by the NBA. Yes - some of this falls on him, but still......

I don't get it. Your comments show pretty clearly why it is unwarranted to think he is being blackballed. There just aren't any teams interested who feel that he too would be interested. Memphis tried last year, but look what happened.