Hornets, Nets, Rockets, and Pacers working on deal

[Lucky17]

Darren Collison put up 20 and 8 while playing plus defense as a starter for half a season last year. He is a star talent. Giving him up for anything less than a youthful star talent in return is a mistake.

Troy Murphy can't defend his own shadow. The Nets already have two better power forwards on their roster with Favors and Humphries. Paying $10+ million to a guy who makes you worse + losing a very good young and cost effective role player like Courtney Lee is a very poor move.

True but isn't Troy Murphy an expiring contract maybe that's all it is and they didn't see a long term with Lee.

The Nets already had cap space (about $15 million prior to trade).

They didn't gain any cap flexibility by taking on Murphy's deal. They didn't move any long term deals here (only a rookie scale contract). They just cost themselves $10 million and gained nothing of value while also losing a valuable young player in Courtney Lee.

Avery Johnson is convinced that Derrick Favors can not give the team real minutes this year because he is just not ready. Murphy is a rent a player for a year to eat up minutes and give the team a veteran presence while it develops Favors slowly. Most importantly, Murphy doesn't cost them future cap flexibility and becomes a nice expiring contract trade asset for a team looking to dump payroll in February, if something comes up for NJ to grab at.

The only thing I would quibble with is the last thought.  They could turn around and trade Murphy as an expiring contract, but if they just had the cap space they could absorb salary without sending ANYTHING back.  That would have made New Jersey the preferred trade partner for anyone looking to shed salary at the deadline.

Don't really like the deal for Jersey.  Troy Murphy's proven that he can put up good numbers but isn't a building block.  Give up Lee AND trade flexibility (and have to pay him)?  Still, he'll probably help them inch up a couple of wins.

That's a fair assessment.

I think that personnel-wise, the trade balances out the Nets' roster better. Murphy is a bona fide PF whose shooting and rebounding meshes well with Lopez. Outlaw now at SF and Morrow or Williams as SG.

[sbm8196]

It would be sweet if we could try to pry Posey away from the Pacers in a trade.  Suggestions on how we could make it work?

[the_Bird]

It would be sweet if we could try to pry Posey away from the Pacers in a trade.  Suggestions on how we could make it work?

No doubt in my mind, if Danny wanted Posey, he could have gotten him (for 'Sheed's deal) months ago. 

Wait and see if Posey gets bought out.  We don't absolutely need him right now, and if Indiana does decide to go in another direction, be a lot nicer to pay him the vet min instead of close to $30M (when you factor in his trade kicker and the lux tax).

[oldmanspeaks]

Who, I gave you a TP because I also don't understand why NJ does this trade. I actually like Murphy more than most people on here because of his rebounds. However I don't see how a big priced contract helps a non-contender unless he is a star and Murphy isn't a star. This must feel that Favors isn't going to be ready to play for a while other than limited minutes. If so, it is still a LOT of money.

[Snakehead]

I guess Houston values being under the Luxury Tax more than winning a championship because they're not going to win a championship doing trades like this.

I agree, but Yao might not be right again (from the stories recently it sounds that way) and without him at his former level they won't win a title anyways.  No chance.

But it is sad to see teams give up and/or avoid paying luxury.  Houston does good for the value though.

I heard lately that he should be good for trainning camp.

Same but there was an interview with him where he said something to the effect of "I may never be right again" and he wasn't confident for this upcoming year.  Said he may retire soon.

[RJ87]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

[Surferdad]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

[zerophase]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy and keeping Collison around didn't do them any favors with CP3 coming back. Everyone knew Collison was a trading chip as soon as he got good. Although I'm really high on Collison, and I feel they could have gotten someone of greater star potential.

I see it as a huge win for Indy... They finally have another future All-Star point guard... With Granger and Collison I think they greatly improved with potential. Murphy was solid but that's all he ever was... solid. He was never going to be an all-star.

[Mike-Dub]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy.

Ariza is nowhere near a 20ppg guy.

[the_Bird]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy.

Ariza is nowhere near a 20ppg guy.

Houston gave Ariza that big contract on the assumption that he could BECOME a 20PPG guy, and he didn't succeed.  He *should* be playing Battier's game (playing great D, hitting some jumpers, not trying to do too much on offense), but they though he could be something else.  Didn't work, his shooting percentages went in the toilet, he's not a go-to guy. 

That's why he's being traded.  If he WAS a guy they could count on to be the #1 (or #2) scorer, they would have kept him - but he's overpaid to be essentially a very good role player.

[moiso]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

Yeah, they traded a potential allstar in Collison for a highly paid Tony Allen with a three point shot.

[Who]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy.

Ariza is nowhere near a 20ppg guy.

Houston gave Ariza that big contract on the assumption that he could BECOME a 20PPG guy, and he didn't succeed.  He *should* be playing Battier's game (playing great D, hitting some jumpers, not trying to do too much on offense), but they though he could be something else.  Didn't work, his shooting percentages went in the toilet, he's not a go-to guy. 

That's why he's being traded.  If he WAS a guy they could count on to be the #1 (or #2) scorer, they would have kept him - but he's overpaid to be essentially a very good role player.

No, they did not. They gave Ariza that money to play his game.

The only reason Ariza was given the ball that much last season was because of the injuries and losses of Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest. Those losses gave them an opportunity to try out players in different roles and see how they would respond. Ariza was given a shot and he couldn't handle it.

That is all that happened.

-------------------------------------------

Far too much is being made about Ariza's high number of shot attempts and low percentages last season ...

Once Kevin Martin arrived at midseason, Ariza's role began to shrink offensively back to the role they wanted him to take and his efficiency jumped right back up.  He was allowed to play off of his teammates (Martin, Scola, Brooks and Lowry) rather than being asked to create his own shot. He posted a TS% of 55.5% after the All-Star break compared to the 48% he was hitting prior to that.

This was the Ariza that we saw in LA and the Ariza we were going to see next season.

[Who]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy and keeping Collison around didn't do them any favors with CP3 coming back. Everyone knew Collison was a trading chip as soon as he got good. Although I'm really high on Collison, and I feel they could have gotten someone of greater star potential.

I see it as a huge win for Indy... They finally have another future All-Star point guard... With Granger and Collison I think they greatly improved with potential. Murphy was solid but that's all he ever was... solid. He was never going to be an all-star.

And Paul George ... Collison + George + Granger.

That is a very promising trio of perimeter players to build around long term. Add some quality big men, particularly a defensive anchor and some rebounders, and given time that should become a very good playoff quality team.

Indiana have done a tremendous job this summer with this trade and their draft pick. Completely transformed their future.

[PosImpos]

Via Chad Ford's Twitter

Breaking: Hornets, Rockets, Pacers & Nets working on 4 team deal. Ariza to NO. C. Lee to HOU. Collison & Posey to IND. Murphy to NJ.

Good deal for all teams except Houston don't really like the deal for them.   Surprised that Houston is getting rid of Ariza and keeping Battier over him. 

I love the deal for Houston.  I am not a big Ariza fan, and think his contract is too much.  Battier is the better player, the leader of the team, and has the better contract.  And Lee fits in on that team perfectly as a 6th man behind Martin and Battier.  And Houston gets right down, near the luxury tax threshold, and open up more cap space for next summer.

This.

Never doubt Daryl Morey.

[Surferdad]

NJ did this deal because they wanna bridge the gap at PF until Favors is ready - Murphy can do that and mentor the rookie a bit. Indy did well in this deal with getting Collison, they needed a PG and they got a good young talent. Posey is terrible, let him stay there for the love of god. Houston - eh, they got what they wanted so good for them. NO gets Ariza who should play extremely well with Paul. I think its a decent deal all around.

Seems like NO is the big loser talent-wise, guess they needed to shed salary.  Another blow to CP3.

I disagree. Ariza is a 20ppg guy.

Ariza is nowhere near a 20ppg guy.

Houston gave Ariza that big contract on the assumption that he could BECOME a 20PPG guy, and he didn't succeed.  He *should* be playing Battier's game (playing great D, hitting some jumpers, not trying to do too much on offense), but they though he could be something else.  Didn't work, his shooting percentages went in the toilet, he's not a go-to guy. 

That's why he's being traded.  If he WAS a guy they could count on to be the #1 (or #2) scorer, they would have kept him - but he's overpaid to be essentially a very good role player.

No, they did not. They gave Ariza that money to play his game.

The only reason Ariza was given the ball that much last season was because of the injuries and losses of Yao Ming, Tracy McGrady and Ron Artest. Those losses gave them an opportunity to try out players in different roles and see how they would respond. Ariza was given a shot and he couldn't handle it.

That is all that happened.

-------------------------------------------

Far too much is being made about Ariza's high number of shot attempts and low percentages last season ...

Once Kevin Martin arrived at midseason, Ariza's role began to shrink offensively back to the role they wanted him to take and his efficiency jumped right back up.  He was allowed to play off of his teammates (Martin, Scola, Brooks and Lowry) rather than being asked to create his own shot. He posted a TS% of 55.5% after the All-Star break compared to the 48% he was hitting prior to that.

This was the Ariza that we saw in LA and the Ariza we were going to see next season.

This is why Ariza fits so well in NO. Paul-West-Ariza is balanced and he won't need the ball to be effective with two other good shooters. 


That said, it seems Indy was the big winner in this one.