Author Topic: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions  (Read 450404 times)

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #195 on: August 16, 2007, 12:18:19 PM »

Offline Pawtucket Pat

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Quote from: AdrianoMG6 on Today at 07:32:03 AM
hobbs why u movin this post? it's more celtic related then some others u have on the celtics talk!


"Are you really that obtuse? 

You're talking about the Minnesota Timberwolves.  They're another team in the NBA.  They have a different owner, GM, coach, fanbase, city, and roster than the Boston Celtics.  This shouldn't be too hard for you to figure out."


The above quote was made by Roy Hobbs today in another thread. I wanted to point out the hypocritical nature of this comment, and the seemingly unjustified elevation of the hostilities towards the original poster. Hobbs called the poster obtuse using the "have you stopped beating your wife" trick, by asking if he was that obtuse, implying that he, in fact, was, since he had already made the comment.

Perhaps there was bad blood from that poster in the past, I'm not privy to anything like that, but it seems to me that the poster simply asked a question that was legitimate to him, and Hobbs amped up the hostilities and violated one of the rules he so strictly enforces by using a derogatory description of the poster.

Obviously I love the Celtics and this site, and I have nothing against any of the people who do a fine job moderating and keeping the site at the level of quality it is at, but I have to say that I thought this comment was out of line, hypocritical, and unnecessary. I'd hope Hobbs would remember his own short fuse next time before admonishing and/or banning other posters.

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #196 on: August 16, 2007, 01:15:05 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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The poster in question has a long history of deliberately ignoring the rules.  I don't want to get into his disciplinary history too much, but it is a substantial one.  His challenging my authority to move the thread in this instance was in no way an innocent question. 

The word "obtuse", in common parlance, carries with it a meaning of deliberately being dense or difficult.  I don't see it, when used in this context, as a personal attack.  Any poster who challenges a moderator's authority to move a thread about the Minnesota Timberwolves to the Around the NBA forum must be being deliberately obstructive.

I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.  In the context it was used, it was a perfectly appropriate observation.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 01:28:02 PM by Roy Hobbs »

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #197 on: August 16, 2007, 01:32:07 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I'd have to agree, Adriano was obviously baiting Hobbs here. That kid is constantly picking a fight with Hobbs, not with edgar or wd or jeff or something but with Hobbs, its pretty obvious where the conversation would've gone.

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #198 on: August 16, 2007, 02:01:28 PM »

Offline Pawtucket Pat

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The poster in question has a long history of deliberately ignoring the rules.  I don't want to get into his disciplinary history too much, but it is a substantial one.  His challenging my authority to move the thread in this instance was in no way an innocent question. 

The word "obtuse", in common parlance, carries with it a meaning of deliberately being dense or difficult.  I don't see it, when used in this context, as a personal attack.  Any poster who challenges a moderator's authority to move a thread about the Minnesota Timberwolves to the Around the NBA forum must be being deliberately obstructive.

I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.  In the context it was used, it was a perfectly appropriate observation.

Fair enough. If there is some kind of long-standing history there, I can understand the agitation.

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #199 on: August 17, 2007, 11:54:07 AM »

Offline Pawtucket Pat

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I'd have to agree, Adriano was obviously baiting Hobbs here. That kid is constantly picking a fight with Hobbs, not with edgar or wd or jeff or something but with Hobbs, its pretty obvious where the conversation would've gone.

I think it is worth mentioning that Hobbs seems to get "baited" a lot more than other mods. Could that have something to do with arrogant statements like the one above ("I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.")?

It seems that Hobbs does his fair share of "baiting" as well, and pompous statements like the one above are par for the course. I for one found it a rude statement to make and am perfectly familiar with the word obtuse as well as it's standard usage. I'd also suggest that Mr. Hobbs make his way to dictionary.com and show me where it says that the definition for the word obtuse  includes being willfully or deliberately difficult. You might be surprised to learn that it simply means slow-witted or dim, which doesn't seem much different than calling someone stupid, which I think we can all agree is a personal attack.

If there is a history there, I can understand the agitation. However, it still seems hypocritical to me and I think it's naive to suggest that Hobbs doesn't invite at least a little of this baiting onto himself.

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #200 on: August 17, 2007, 11:59:53 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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I'd have to agree, Adriano was obviously baiting Hobbs here. That kid is constantly picking a fight with Hobbs, not with edgar or wd or jeff or something but with Hobbs, its pretty obvious where the conversation would've gone.

I think it is worth mentioning that Hobbs seems to get "baited" a lot more than other mods. Could that have something to do with arrogant statements like the one above ("I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.")?

It seems that Hobbs does his fair share of "baiting" as well, and pompous statements like the one above are par for the course. I for one found it a rude statement to make and am perfectly familiar with the word obtuse as well as it's standard usage. I'd also suggest that Mr. Hobbs make his way to dictionary.com and show me where it says that the definition for the word obtuse  includes being willfully or deliberately difficult. You might be surprised to learn that it simply means slow-witted or dim, which doesn't seem much different than calling someone stupid, which I think we can all agree is a personal attack.

If there is a history there, I can understand the agitation. However, it still seems hypocritical to me and I think it's naive to suggest that Hobbs doesn't invite at least a little of this baiting onto himself.


Why are you trying to bait Roy Hobbs? 

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #201 on: August 17, 2007, 12:00:42 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Before calling out members of the staff, Pat, I would suggest you be willing to back your statements up with facts.  Please, point me to examples of my "baiting" other posters.  I find it comical that somebody with only a handful of posts is calling me out; I sense an agenda, and if you continue to make unfounded accusations, it's something that will be dealt with.

By the way, if you go to google or yahoo, there are over 100,000 search results where deliberate and obtuse are used in conjunction, as in "deliberately obtuse".  Amazing how that works.

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #202 on: August 17, 2007, 01:19:25 PM »

Offline Pawtucket Pat

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I'd have to agree, Adriano was obviously baiting Hobbs here. That kid is constantly picking a fight with Hobbs, not with edgar or wd or jeff or something but with Hobbs, its pretty obvious where the conversation would've gone.

I think it is worth mentioning that Hobbs seems to get "baited" a lot more than other mods. Could that have something to do with arrogant statements like the one above ("I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.")?

It seems that Hobbs does his fair share of "baiting" as well, and pompous statements like the one above are par for the course. I for one found it a rude statement to make and am perfectly familiar with the word obtuse as well as it's standard usage. I'd also suggest that Mr. Hobbs make his way to dictionary.com and show me where it says that the definition for the word obtuse  includes being willfully or deliberately difficult. You might be surprised to learn that it simply means slow-witted or dim, which doesn't seem much different than calling someone stupid, which I think we can all agree is a personal attack.

If there is a history there, I can understand the agitation. However, it still seems hypocritical to me and I think it's naive to suggest that Hobbs doesn't invite at least a little of this baiting onto himself.


Why are you trying to bait Roy Hobbs? 

I don't post much, but I'm on the boards every day. I assume you have access to number of log-ins and site visits. Feel free to check them and my profile; I've been a member of the blog since day one at the new site and was a member for well over a year at the previous site as well before the switch.

I don't see myself as "baiting" anyone; I'm not trying to start an argument. I just think Hobbs often times comes across as quite arrogant when dealing with posters, and the example above was a perfect case in point.

Hobbs made a rude comment yesterday to another poster, which I said was inapprorpriate and hypocritical. Hobbs edited my comment and deleted my criticism and invited me to post my thoughts in the appropriate forum, which I understood and acquiesced to. When I stated my case, Hobbs made his, and did so in an arrogant way, suggesting that perhaps I didn't understand the word and that's why I felt the way I did, which was false. I was going to let it go, but it really bothered me and I felt that I should let Hobbs know, in the appropriate forum, which I was told this is, that I felt his words were unneccessary. Hobbs responded in kind that if I continue on the subject that I will be "dealt with."

This is exactly the kind of hostile environment that I feel Hobbs fosters in such cases. Maybe you both think I'm baiting you, but I'm honestly just a huge Celtics fan who loves both the blog and the forums, but am often bothered by Hobbs's tone in threatening disciplinary action with posters. I don't view myself as a "problem" poster or anything of the sort. Again, I don't post much but am an avid reader of the site and forums. However, given that this is the suggestion thread, I'd suggest that Hobbs please display a bit more tact and a bit less arrogance in such matters.

Finally, I'm not going to go through Hobbs's posts and point out cases in which I think he's being less than polite--though I certainly could--because that doesn't seem like it will get anything anywhere. I think my point is valid--Hobbs invites potential trouble cases onto himself from time to time--and all I'd like is for Hobbs to acknowledge that sometimes he might be a bit heavy-handed, rather than denying it and threatening me.

That said, I'll leave it at that. I love the site and don't want to get myself kicked off, which, sadly, seems a distinct possibility. It's a shame that an agenda-free honest discussion could devolve to that point, but so it is, I suppose. I've said my piece.

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #203 on: August 17, 2007, 01:22:25 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Now that's snarky.

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #204 on: August 17, 2007, 01:26:14 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Again, PP, unless you're going to actually use examples, baiting is *exactly* what your post is.  It is inappropriate to say "Hobbs often baits posters" without giving examples.  In the case of Adriano, he was deliberately picking a fight over something that was completely and utterly asinine:  whether a post entirely about the Minnesota Timberwolves belonged in the around the NBA section.  He was the textbook definition of somebody being deliberately and stubbornly obtuse.

I have over 6,000 posts on here, and literally hundreds of moderators actions.  I've received only a handful of complaints, so I feel fairly good about the job I'm doing on here.  While I have no major problem with your criticism, I am going to respond to it when I believe that it is unfounded.

Again, discussion is welcomed; calling a staff member "arrogant" and "pompous" without foundation is not.  While I have spoken to some members more harshly than others at times, almost uniformly that is due to a long history of that poster either pushing the envelope, or having a lengthy disciplinary record.  I stand by each and every one of my posts on this board.

Let me say, however, that I have a hard time believing that you are simply interested in an innocent discussion as to the merits of moderator action.  For somebody who is just a huge Celtics fan and wants to talk about the team, you've made yourself awfully conspicuous with your unfounded criticisms.  That doesn't necessarily bode well for your future here.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2007, 01:47:39 PM by Roy Hobbs »

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #205 on: August 17, 2007, 01:53:40 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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I'd have to agree, Adriano was obviously baiting Hobbs here. That kid is constantly picking a fight with Hobbs, not with edgar or wd or jeff or something but with Hobbs, its pretty obvious where the conversation would've gone.

I think it is worth mentioning that Hobbs seems to get "baited" a lot more than other mods. Could that have something to do with arrogant statements like the one above ("I would hazard a guess that anybody complaining about my use of this word had to look it up in the dictionary.")?

It seems that Hobbs does his fair share of "baiting" as well, and pompous statements like the one above are par for the course. I for one found it a rude statement to make and am perfectly familiar with the word obtuse as well as it's standard usage. I'd also suggest that Mr. Hobbs make his way to dictionary.com and show me where it says that the definition for the word obtuse  includes being willfully or deliberately difficult. You might be surprised to learn that it simply means slow-witted or dim, which doesn't seem much different than calling someone stupid, which I think we can all agree is a personal attack.

If there is a history there, I can understand the agitation. However, it still seems hypocritical to me and I think it's naive to suggest that Hobbs doesn't invite at least a little of this baiting onto himself.


Why are you trying to bait Roy Hobbs? 

I don't post much, but I'm on the boards every day. I assume you have access to number of log-ins and site visits. Feel free to check them and my profile; I've been a member of the blog since day one at the new site and was a member for well over a year at the previous site as well before the switch.

I don't see myself as "baiting" anyone; I'm not trying to start an argument. I just think Hobbs often times comes across as quite arrogant when dealing with posters, and the example above was a perfect case in point.

Hobbs made a rude comment yesterday to another poster, which I said was inapprorpriate and hypocritical. Hobbs edited my comment and deleted my criticism and invited me to post my thoughts in the appropriate forum, which I understood and acquiesced to. When I stated my case, Hobbs made his, and did so in an arrogant way, suggesting that perhaps I didn't understand the word and that's why I felt the way I did, which was false. I was going to let it go, but it really bothered me and I felt that I should let Hobbs know, in the appropriate forum, which I was told this is, that I felt his words were unneccessary. Hobbs responded in kind that if I continue on the subject that I will be "dealt with."

This is exactly the kind of hostile environment that I feel Hobbs fosters in such cases. Maybe you both think I'm baiting you, but I'm honestly just a huge Celtics fan who loves both the blog and the forums, but am often bothered by Hobbs's tone in threatening disciplinary action with posters. I don't view myself as a "problem" poster or anything of the sort. Again, I don't post much but am an avid reader of the site and forums. However, given that this is the suggestion thread, I'd suggest that Hobbs please display a bit more tact and a bit less arrogance in such matters.

Finally, I'm not going to go through Hobbs's posts and point out cases in which I think he's being less than polite--though I certainly could--because that doesn't seem like it will get anything anywhere. I think my point is valid--Hobbs invites potential trouble cases onto himself from time to time--and all I'd like is for Hobbs to acknowledge that sometimes he might be a bit heavy-handed, rather than denying it and threatening me.

That said, I'll leave it at that. I love the site and don't want to get myself kicked off, which, sadly, seems a distinct possibility. It's a shame that an agenda-free honest discussion could devolve to that point, but so it is, I suppose. I've said my piece.


Yet you continue to bring up your problem with a member of the staff without any evidence. 


If you have a problem, feel free to contact others on the staff with the reasons and evidence of such problem. 


But repeatedly calling out a single member of the staff on a public forum looks like you are trying to bait him into an action. 

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #206 on: August 17, 2007, 02:29:46 PM »

Offline Pawtucket Pat

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Again, PP, unless you're going to actually use examples, baiting is *exactly* what your post is.  It is inappropriate to say "Hobbs often baits posters" without giving examples.  In the case of Adriano, he was deliberately picking a fight over something that was completely and utterly asinine:  whether a post entirely about the Minnesota Timberwolves belonged in the around the NBA section.  He was the textbook definition of somebody being deliberately and stubbornly obtuse.

I have over 6,000 posts on here, and literally hundreds of moderators actions.  I've received only a handful of complaints, so I feel fairly good about the job I'm doing on here.  While I have no major problem with your criticism, I am going to respond to it when I believe that it is unfounded.

Again, discussion is welcomed; calling a staff member "arrogant" and "pompous" without foundation is not.  While I have spoken to some members more harshly than others at times, almost uniformly that is due to a long history of that poster either pushing the envelope, or having a lengthy disciplinary record.  I stand by each and every one of my posts on this board.

Let me say, however, that I have a hard time believing that you are simply interested in an innocent discussion as to the merits of moderator action.  For somebody who is just a huge Celtics fan and wants to talk about the team, you've made yourself awfully conspicuous with your unfounded criticisms.  That doesn't necessarily bode well for your future here.

That's fine. Again, I have no "agenda" as it were. I'm not sure if you think this is some sinister move by someone you've banned to come back and harass you or some such ill-conceived plan, but it is what it is. From perusing forums, it seems there is a heavy-handedness, which you qualify but admit to ("While I have spoken to some members more harshly than others at times, almost uniformly that is due to a long history of that poster either pushing the envelope, or having a lengthy disciplinary record."). It would seem that I simply catch those instances from time and time and remember them, perhaps unjustly given the circumstances.

I understand it's a difficult position, and I think the mods do a great job. I didn't mean to insult the work you do, but merely offer up constructive criticism on something I perceived. There's no sense in dragging this out, so I'll leave it at that.

Go Celts!  ;)

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #207 on: August 17, 2007, 02:44:13 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Fair enough, Pat.  Trust me, there will be no residual hard feelings, if that's something you're worried about.  It's hard sometimes to separate the trouble-makers from the constructive posters, and we've had an influx of the former around here, which probably makes things harder on everybody.

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #208 on: August 17, 2007, 03:04:54 PM »

Offline Bob Day

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Why don't we just let this issue go. Pat, with all due respect, I don't think Roy was baiting anyone. There was history there and much more than you know. I don't blame Roy at all for addressing it the way he did. I understand where you are coming from though and I think that deserves some recognition. I appreciate your concern that folks around here treat each other properly. I can see where Roy's comment could be interpreted as insensitive and out of bounds of our posting rules when one does not have the benefit of knowing the original context of his remarks.

This textual medium whereby we all congregate is imperfect. It is not easy to convey thought as well as we would like and equally challenging to offer background as may be needed to address the issues we discuss. This is the essence of this current discussion as I see it. I don't think Roy was baiting anyone and I don't think you are baiting Roy. To me it is just an example of two opinions being expressed from two different perspectives. In this case the main sticking point is that you were unaware of the background of Roy's comment. Otherwise, I think you two would see eye to eye. I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time but I do believe that is the sum of the dilemma.

Being a CelticsBlog administrator or moderator carries high standards with it. Staff members are expected to perform at near mythical levels of impeccability. That being said, there is no reason any CelticsBlog staff member should ever have to feel they need to be a pin cushion or punch toy for anyone who wants to try to hold those standards over their heads. Those are just cheap shots and as far as I'm concerned anyone who tries to embarrass or otherwise hurt a CelticsBlog staff member in these forums shouldn't be too surprised if that staff member returns the favor. That is a human thing and we'll never rob a staff member of standing up in public on his/her own behalf.

What I think we need to do now is diffuse this current dialog into more positive and less personal discussion. Let's let it go and learn from it.
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #209 on: August 17, 2007, 03:14:00 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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We've worked it out, Bob.  The power of PMs, right? 8)




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