Author Topic: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions  (Read 189113 times)

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #75 on: July 25, 2007, 09:50:59 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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As I stated, it is the position of the United States government that online poker is illegal.  For more information, see here and here, among other sites.  You may certainly disagree with the Department of Justice, but for purposes of this blog, I'm willing to trust their interpretation.

As you are "professional poker player", I will assume that you have no formal legal training.  If you're going to be snarky and challenge my authority to lock threads, "at least get it right."

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #76 on: July 25, 2007, 09:54:23 AM »

Offline dark_lord

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #77 on: July 25, 2007, 10:05:12 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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Hobbs... my point is not one person has been arrested in the US for playing online poker. The interpretation of this law is just like any other, even constitutional amendments like the right to bear arms or raise militia are under debate for interpretation.

Great that you provide a google link for your legal documentation, while the other document proves absolutely nothing to support your argument.

Some quotes form your own article:
"Supporters of the legislation point to a November 2002 ruling by the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New Orleans, in which a three-judge panel concluded a federal anti-gambling law, called the Wire Act, did not apply to all Internet gambling. It was intended to target sports wagering, the judges said."

"There is no doubt that both the Clinton and Bush administrations take the position that online poker is illegal," Shulman said. "They allude to the Wire Act and other federal laws, but upon careful analysis, not one legal expert agrees."

My link on the other hand is from a reputable news source which states internet poker is not illegal.

If I walked into a police station and said I play online poker, no one would even blink.

so if you want to mock me go ahead (I would be warned for this had I done it), all I said was you didn't have all your facts straight.
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #78 on: July 25, 2007, 10:06:37 AM »

Offline Marco Vincent

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snarky

thats a great word!  lol

hobbs dropped the snarky bomb yesterday to... love that word
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #79 on: July 25, 2007, 10:13:36 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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The debate of interpretation stems from whether poker is considered "gambling", which the internet sites maintain it is not.

If you search you're google article in fact the word poker only appears once (when not attached to partypoker, which operates a casino).

"PartyGaming alleges that the Wire Act does not apply to online casinos and online poker companies. Its case is built around the fact that in February 2001 United States District Court Judge Stanwood Duval, whilst looking to the actual language of the Wire Act, ruled that it "does not prohibit Internet gambling 'on a game of chance'." Duval's ruling was upheld November 21, 2002 by the US Fifth Circuit Federal Appeals Court."

The vast majority of federal legislation has been aimed at sportsbooks and casinos. In your google article hobbs, the people they reference as being charged with criminal activity were operating sports books, not internet poker sites.

There are several pro players who advertise the fact they play internet poker, and when you play on these sites CAN SEE THEM PLAYING. If this was so illegal you think they'd arrest phil ivey for gambling $200,000 everyday online from his vegas home.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 10:16:41 AM by WillyBeamin »
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #80 on: July 25, 2007, 10:17:55 AM »

Offline Voom

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As you are "professional poker player", I will assume that you have no formal legal training.  If you're going to be snarky and challenge my authority to lock threads, "at least get it right."

Mr. Hobbs,

There is no reason to mock someone for debating an action of yours. Try to keep it on an intellectual level.
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #81 on: July 25, 2007, 10:20:59 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Like I said, while the statute may be open to interpretation, that interpretation isn't for me, you, or anybody else on this blog to make (assuming we have no members of Congress, the Supreme Court, or the Department of Justice on this blog.)

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #82 on: July 25, 2007, 10:21:42 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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More quotes. Yay! (clearly this is an issue I have an opinion about)

"The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA), signed into law by President Bush on October 13, 2006, makes it illegal for online gambling sites to accept funds or wagers from the United States if the underlying gambling activity violates existing federal, state or tribal law. The law does not make the player liable in any way, but makes the site liable for accepting funds or wagers associated with illegal Internet gambling.

As an online poker player located in the United States, you are not violating the UIGEA or any other federal law, but you may be violating state or tribal law depending on the laws of the state or Native American Reservation where you are located. It is the player's responsibility to determine the legality of playing Internet poker under the law where he is located."
http://www.pokerlistings.com/US-poker-rooms

again, all I said was get your facts straight.

there is no interpretation, I cannot be arrested for playing online poker.

anddddd I'm done.
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #83 on: July 25, 2007, 10:24:31 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Again, which do you expect Celticsblog to side with here, the legal interpretation of online gambling sites, or the legal interpretation of the United States government?  It is the official position of the United States government that the action is illegal.  Case closed.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #84 on: July 25, 2007, 10:25:01 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Isnt there a rule that says Moderators and Admins decitions have to be respected? Even though is o.k. to debate. Like Penaltys and Expulsions in soccer or FutBol as i like to call it.


Ahh yes...there one. ;)
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #85 on: July 25, 2007, 10:31:01 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Isnt there a rule that says Moderators and Admins decitions have to be respected? Even though is o.k. to debate. Like Penaltys and Expulsions in soccer or FutBol as i like to call it.


Ahh yes...there one. ;)

Lol.  Yes, Edgar, we're an oligarchy here.  A benevolent oligarchy for the most part, but an oligarchy all the same.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #86 on: July 25, 2007, 10:33:50 AM »

Offline WillyBeamin

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Again, which do you expect Celticsblog to side with here, the legal interpretation of online gambling sites, or the legal interpretation of the United States government?  It is the official position of the United States government that the action is illegal.  Case closed.

ahhhhhh!
it's not just the interpretation of gambling sites! it's the judges and legal experts quoted in the very articles you cite!

the US supreme court has come nowhere close to this case, this was a bill merely passed by congress. It has gone almost no formal judicial review, hence all the loopholes and ambiguity. this has not touched the judicial branch!

and when it has, there has been almost no clear rulings on it! especially regarding internet poker sites.

again, your original post stated that it is illegal to play online poker for money in the US, and this is not true.

hobbs, this is absolutely nothing personal, this is just clearly an issue I feel opinionated about. feel free to lcok the thread if this is just waisting your time  ;)
Take it to the hole, there's a dance involved

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #87 on: July 25, 2007, 10:36:00 AM »

Offline KuberskiIsMyHero

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It's true, its not illegal. 

But whatever, we see that the powers that be shall make decisions for whatever they want... ::)

Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #88 on: July 25, 2007, 10:38:40 AM »

Offline Bob Day

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You people need to lay off of Roy and do so now. He is just doing his job. He is providing the exact type of moderation around here we desire and his actions in regard to this particular topic are inline with CelticsBlog at this time.

Roy did not create those posting rules related to illegal activity here. Better than 90% of the ones we have were created over the years by bright legal minds and are standard on thousands of websites across the internet.

Those rules are always evolving, but given where they are right now in relation to current U.S. law, I believe Roy's decision to lock the thread for now was the correct one. If this legal area clarifies in the future in such a way that such discussions are clearly legal, then we may amend our posting rules to make accommodation for the changes. Meanwhile, there are plenty of places on the web you can go discuss the subject if you wish.

The most important thing for all of you to consider right now is that launching personal insult toward Roy or otherwise trying to start a fight with him is only going to result in multiple suspensions and/or permanent bans from this website. You truly do need to read the posting rules here. Doing so and abiding by them are requirements of membership.
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Re: Open Thread on Rules/Restrictions
« Reply #89 on: July 25, 2007, 10:40:52 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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again, your original post stated that it is illegal to play online poker for money in the US, and this is not true.

What I said is:

Quote
The government has declared that playing internet poker for money is illegal, and as such its discussion is prohibited on Celticsblog.

This is absolutely a true statement.  That's exactly what the government has declared, in the articles I cited above.  You guys can disagree with the government all you want, but I'd suggest taking it up with your Congressperson, rather than with me.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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