Can someone explain what makes Rose a top 3 PG?

[Brendan]

There are a couple things to consider:

1. Offensive production
2. Offensive compatibility
3. Defense
4. Durability

Offensive production - I would look at that as how many points the PG can create for himself or others. I think Rondo, Rose, CP, Deron, and Nash are all very good. If I had to pick I'd say Nash is 1, then Deron and CP, then Rondo and Rose.

Offensive compatibility - I think Nash could play with any four other players and fit in. He can shoot, he can run, he can ball handle in the half court. Deron is my second best guy, he can play off ball enough with his long jumpers (not really 3's though), then CP, then Rose, then Rondo. Rondo's lack of a J is a severe weakness in his ability to play with other guys that require the ball (and why Ray Allen is a great on court guard for him to run with.) But really all of these guys are going to be at their best in an offense where the PG handles the ball - so don't put these guys into the dreadful triangle, ever... which is where PGs go to die.

Defense - Rondo is vastly is superior here IMO. Deron is second because he uses his size well. Not sure about CP or Rose, I think they are okay defenders, but not great. Nash is bad.

Durability - Rondo takes a lot of licks, but seems to get up, and can pretty much go 48 if he needs to. This is important - when your team runs through the PG and you take the PG out someone inferior comes in, although a good GM (by getting good players) and a good coach (by having some other plays system to run) can mitigate it, its still an important part of the player evaluation. Rondo gets you a 19 PER for 40+ minutes when needed. You can't run Nash out there that much (IMO). I think Rose, Deron, and CP3 all fall between these guys.

My end take:

1. Deron
2. CP3 (assume he's healthy)
3. Nash (just too good offensively to knock him out)
4. Rondo
5. Rose

Didn't consider: Billups - he's very good. You could add him to any team as the PG and he'd fit in, but I don't see him as the starting point for any team - he's kind of like the current version of Ray Allen for a PG. There are other guys that might be ahead of Rose too, I'm just ranking the three "obvious" contenders, our guy, and the guy the thread is about.

Westbrook I just don''t know enough about him, but I liked what I saw in the playoffs.

[BballTim]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

That's not even close, as roy has pointed out. That is not a compelling counter to BBall's example.

Add in the fact that it was played on a game that the Celtics really had no interest in and Chicago desperately needed, and it's even less so.

Rose has the potential to be in the top three based on his physical skill set, but he is not even in the top five right now. He needs to master running a team as opposed to dominating the ball and making a few flashy passes.

I think he'll likely get there in a few years, but right now, if i had to take a PG to run my contending team during a playoff series, I take, in no particular order:

Rondo
Nash
Paul
Williams
Billups

and possibly, though I'd likely take rose:
Kidd
Parker
Nelson

The topic was "Is he a top 3 PG right now?" and i don't think he is as of this moment.

yeah Rose at #2
Nash
Rose
Williams
Chris Paul(healthy version)
Rondo,
Nelson
Billups  

Rose can score the basketball. Its simple really.
 

  He might be the least efficient scorer in that group. Sure, he can score, but that's his only superior talent, right?

Not sure depends if you think 6 apg regular season and 7apg in the postseason is a superior stat. Rondo is much better with 10 apg and 11 apg. I can understand the case for Rondo in the top three. I just want my point guard to be able to score the basketball.

  I'm not looking for an AI type of pg. Rondo does a lot of things better than Rose and they all effect the game. As we've seen in stretches this year and in the playoffs, Rondo is clearly capable scoring more than he normally does. But when he's not scoring (because someone else is at the time) he still does a number of things that have a significant impact on the game. Pass, rebound, defend, control the pace of the game, things like that. Rondo only scored 13 points in game 2, but he dominated that game. Rose can't do that.

[Mr October]

Rose's offensive skills - scoring passing and handle are great. His defense not so much, and his consistency isn't quite there yet.

There is no question he has top 3 PG potential - possibly top PG in the league potential.

But today, I rank him as such (and I think there are 3 distinct levels at the PG position, where the differences aren't that much):

1 Deron Williams
2 Chris Paul
3 Steve Nash
----------
4 Rajon Rondo
5 Derrick Rose
----------
6 Tony Parker
7 Chauncey Billups - I did consider him top 4 until this season. He's starting to drop off
8 Jason Kidd
9 Jameer Nelson

[bruinsandceltics]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

That's not even close, as roy has pointed out. That is not a compelling counter to BBall's example.

Add in the fact that it was played on a game that the Celtics really had no interest in and Chicago desperately needed, and it's even less so.

Rose has the potential to be in the top three based on his physical skill set, but he is not even in the top five right now. He needs to master running a team as opposed to dominating the ball and making a few flashy passes.

I think he'll likely get there in a few years, but right now, if i had to take a PG to run my contending team during a playoff series, I take, in no particular order:

Rondo
Nash
Paul
Williams
Billups

and possibly, though I'd likely take rose:
Kidd
Parker
Nelson

The topic was "Is he a top 3 PG right now?" and i don't think he is as of this moment.

yeah Rose at #2
Nash
Rose
Williams
Chris Paul(healthy version)
Rondo,
Nelson
Billups  

Rose can score the basketball. Its simple really.

So you are trying to argue that Rose is a better PG, based only on the fact that he can score? That is ridiculous.

[Mr October]

I'll chime in on Rose vs Rondo.

Rose's game right now is much closer to Iverson or Marbury than it is to Steve Nash or John Stockton.

And if I want to build a title team I'd much rather have the all around player with a tremendous feel for the game over the great scorer.

Rose for sure has the potential to be the best in the NBA. And for that reason I would be tempted to trade Rondo for him.

However Rondo is the better player right now. Rose can shoot better from the outside, sure. But I give Rondo a big advantage on defense, a roughly equal evaluation on penetration and attacking the rim (Rondo can do it when he needs too, and especially when his high profile teammates are injured, etc).

Finally the big factor for me is Rondo's basketball IQ, his feel for the game. This has been Rondo's biggest improvement this season IMO. He has such a great feel for knowing when he should score, when he should defer to a teammate, when he needs to set up certain guys to keep them involved. Really impressive stuff. His coach-on-the-floor-like IQ is right up there with Steve Nash and Jason Kidd. Amazing stuff to watch, and a big reason why I think I want Rondo to be a Celtic for life.

Perhaps Rose will get there in the next few years. But he's not there yet.

Rondo's one and only weakness is the outside shot, and even that is coming year to year. If he ever gets that down, watch out.

[jbowen]

And if I want to build a title team I'd much rather have the all around player with a tremendous feel for the game over the great scorer.

My feelings exactly. I'd rather my point be the 3rd-4th scoring option and just create for his teammates.

Where's Devin Harris at on all the lists that like scoring PGs?  Sure this season was off for him, but who in New Jersey didn't have a terrible year?  Last year dude did 21.3 ppg, 6.9 apg, and 3.3 rpg.

I'd say CP3, then Deron, then probably Nash as my top three in the league right now, though if starting a team i'd take Rondo over Nash based on years left.

[4THQTR]

Only answer i can come up with:

Being the most important and best player all season on the team that has the best team of the regular season on the brink of elimination,,,

[Roy Hobbs]

Only answer i can come up with:

Being the most important and best player all season on the team that has the best team of the regular season on the brink of elimination,,,

I think you might have misread the title.  I think you're describing Rondo, not Rose.

[4THQTR]

Only answer i can come up with:

Being the most important and best player all season on the team that has the best team of the regular season on the brink of elimination,,,

I think you might have misread the title.  I think you're describing Rondo, not Rose.

thanks just realised that myself...

okay, can't come up with an answer, then!

[BballTim]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

That's not even close, as roy has pointed out. That is not a compelling counter to BBall's example.

Add in the fact that it was played on a game that the Celtics really had no interest in and Chicago desperately needed, and it's even less so.

Rose has the potential to be in the top three based on his physical skill set, but he is not even in the top five right now. He needs to master running a team as opposed to dominating the ball and making a few flashy passes.

I think he'll likely get there in a few years, but right now, if i had to take a PG to run my contending team during a playoff series, I take, in no particular order:

Rondo
Nash
Paul
Williams
Billups

and possibly, though I'd likely take rose:
Kidd
Parker
Nelson

The topic was "Is he a top 3 PG right now?" and i don't think he is as of this moment.

yeah Rose at #2
Nash
Rose
Williams
Chris Paul(healthy version)
Rondo,
Nelson
Billups  

Rose can score the basketball. Its simple really.
 

  Now that the Cavs series is over, let's compare the damage the two players did against Cleveland in the postseason. Rose came in with 27/3/7 and a steal. Rondo went for 21/6/12 with 2 steals. So, you're right, Rose did outscore Rondo by 6 points a game.

  And it only took him about 11 more shots a game to do it. 14 shots for 21 points vs 25 shots for 27 points. You're right, it is pretty simple.

[FatjohnReturns]

Anyone care to change their opinion on if Rose is a top 3 pg roughly one year later?

[BballTim]

Anyone care to change their opinion on if Rose is a top 3 pg roughly one year later?

  Haha. Maybe I could find some threads about how mediocre the Bulls and Heat were last year and see if anyone wants to change their opinion?

[kozlodoev]

*thumbs down* for grave digging old threads.

Rose is not the same player he was back then.

[Roy H.]

The problem with bumping threads a year after they were started is that things sometimes change dramatically.  If people want to discuss Rose's game, it's better to start a new thread; this one will just result in people getting called out for opinions that they may no longer have.

Locked.