Can someone explain what makes Rose a top 3 PG?

[Fafnir]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. Only Nash is better

He had several poor games in this year's playoffs.

Also if you've watched the others Williams, Paul, and Rondo all can also take over games. They are only 25, 24, and 23 respectively.

[indeedproceed]

without the words upside, ceiling, athletic ability, physical tools or any combination thereof? Thanks. After Gerald Green I don't find those words convincing anymore.

Without using speed, passing ability, court awareness, and ability to steal tell me why Rondo's a top PG.

Besides his shooting ability, heart, and court awareness was Larry Bird all that great?

I don't believe Rose is a top 3 PG, I believe he will be, but you can't start your argument by saying "You can't mention the attributes that make him great."

I think what he meant to say is "don't tell me what he could be. tell me what he is."

And he ISN'T a top 3 PG...but he COULD be someday...he's probably the most likely prospect to make the jump..him or Russell Westbrook.

[BballTim]

Not yet.....BUT...if Le Queen deigns to go to the Windy City...I think immediately. Look at what the Big Three have done for Rondo.

  Rondo has better stats when one or more of them are out. Rose's stats will probably drop as well if LeBron goes there and dominates the ball.

I agree, but just as the Big Three have made RR better, so will Le Queen make Rose better. And as RR has taught us, stats alone do not necessarily an All Star make.

  I don't think Rose shares Rondo's ability to take over games without putting up big stats. And had LeBron made all of his teammates better in Cleveland? Any of them? Those guys might have made Rondo better when he was a 2nd year player averaging 8 points and 5 assists but they aren't responsible for the leap his game has taken over the last year and a half or so.

[Fafnir]

Not yet.....BUT...if Le Queen deigns to go to the Windy City...I think immediately. Look at what the Big Three have done for Rondo.

  Rondo has better stats when one or more of them are out. Rose's stats will probably drop as well if LeBron goes there and dominates the ball.

I agree, but just as the Big Three have made RR better, so will Le Queen make Rose better. And as RR has taught us, stats alone do not necessarily an All Star make.

  I don't think Rose shares Rondo's ability to take over games without putting up big stats. And had LeBron made all of his teammates better in Cleveland? Any of them? Those guys might have made Rondo better when he was a 2nd year player averaging 8 points and 5 assists but they aren't responsible for the leap his game has taken over the last year and a half or so.

That's the next step Rose has to take, can he dominate games without being a scorer?

All of the other PGs in the discussion have proven they can do that, in my view Rose hasn't.

[wdleehi]

He is not.


Right now, the following PGs are better.

Paul
Williams
Nash
Billups
Rondo

And you can make cases for

Nelson
Parker


He has top 3 potential.  

[Who]

without the words upside, ceiling, athletic ability, physical tools or any combination thereof? Thanks. After Gerald Green I don't find those words convincing anymore.

Without using speed, passing ability, court awareness, and ability to steal tell me why Rondo's a top PG.

Besides his shooting ability, heart, and court awareness was Larry Bird all that great?

I don't believe Rose is a top 3 PG, I believe he will be, but you can't start your argument by saying "You can't mention the attributes that make him great."

I think what he meant to say is "don't tell me what he could be. tell me what he is."

And he ISN'T a top 3 PG...but he COULD be someday...he's probably the most likely prospect to make the jump..him or Russell Westbrook.

I think Westbrook is the better prospect. He can change a game in more ways than Rose can.

[Roy Hobbs]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

Yeah, but 29 / 13 accounts for more points than 39 / 7, right?  The six extra baskets trumps the ten extra points, don't they?  Also, the 13 extra rebounds certainly create more offensive possessions.  

Rose is an amazing player, but there's no need to downplay Rondo's contributions.  When he's been asked to score, he's generally scored.  Sure, he benefits from the "big three", but what point guard doesn't have greater success around good teammates?

[BballTim]

without the words upside, ceiling, athletic ability, physical tools or any combination thereof? Thanks. After Gerald Green I don't find those words convincing anymore.

Without using speed, passing ability, court awareness, and ability to steal tell me why Rondo's a top PG.

Besides his shooting ability, heart, and court awareness was Larry Bird all that great?

I don't believe Rose is a top 3 PG, I believe he will be, but you can't start your argument by saying "You can't mention the attributes that make him great."

 Ceiling and upside don't make a player great. Just ask Gerald Green.

Athletic ability and physical tools are certainly part of the discussion, though.  The first two are speculative, but the second two are very real attributes (and are the reason that Danny was so high on a guy like Rondo, despite pedestrian stats in college.)

  Danny was high on Rondo more for his head to head play vs Roy and Foye and his production than his athletic ability. You can't be great without athletic ability but you can have athletic ability without being great.

[Donoghus]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

Yeah, but 29 / 13 accounts for more points than 39 / 7, right?  The six extra baskets trumps the ten extra points, don't they?  Also, the 13 extra rebounds certainly create more offensive possessions.  

Rose is an amazing player, but there's no need to downplay Rondo's contributions.  When he's been asked to score, he's generally scored.  Sure, he benefits from the "big three", but what point guard doesn't have greater success around good teammates?

Also, I hate that game for comparison sake.

I'm not sure that's the best head to head matchup to point to if you're going to debate Rondo/Rose. 2nd to last game of the year, I believe.

The Celtics were in cruise control at that point with pretty much nothing to play for (unless you want to argue a half-hearted attempt at the 3 seed) while the Bulls were fighting tooth & nail for their playoff lives.  The intensity levels were nowhere near the same level.

[BballTim]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

  A meaningless late season regular season game when the Celts spot in the playoffs was already determined? Haha.

[Roy Hobbs]

without the words upside, ceiling, athletic ability, physical tools or any combination thereof? Thanks. After Gerald Green I don't find those words convincing anymore.

Without using speed, passing ability, court awareness, and ability to steal tell me why Rondo's a top PG.

Besides his shooting ability, heart, and court awareness was Larry Bird all that great?

I don't believe Rose is a top 3 PG, I believe he will be, but you can't start your argument by saying "You can't mention the attributes that make him great."

 Ceiling and upside don't make a player great. Just ask Gerald Green.

Athletic ability and physical tools are certainly part of the discussion, though.  The first two are speculative, but the second two are very real attributes (and are the reason that Danny was so high on a guy like Rondo, despite pedestrian stats in college.)

  Danny was high on Rondo more for his head to head play vs Roy and Foye and his production than his athletic ability. You can't be great without athletic ability but you can have athletic ability without being great.

I'm skeptical that it had much to do with production; Rondo averaged 11 / 5 in his last college season. 

As far as H2H, Rondo didn't play either Foye or Roy in college.  I doubt that Danny based his entire assessment on how the players competed against each other in pre-draft workouts, and I'm not even sure if those guys went H2H.

Danny took Rondo for much the same reason that he took Marcus Banks, and why OKC took Westbrook:  he loved the physical tools that Rondo possessed, and thought that he'd be more productive in a system better suited to his skills.

[FatjohnReturns]

Definitely has the potential to be a top PG in the league. But as everyone else is saying, he's not there just yet. Rondo, Williams, Paul, Nash are all a higher class of PG at the moment.

Sorry Disagree. Rose is better than Rondo,Williams and Chris Paul right now. Only Nash is better than Rose at the moment. He has the potential to be totally dominant. He is incredible.

What's your reasoning for this proclamation?

His stats are worse than all of those players.

He can take over a game. He plays big in the biggest games and he is only 22 cmon. None of the point guards besides Nash have the ability to be so dominant.

  Wake me up when he puts up something close to 29/18/13.

Tuesday April 13, 2010 vs the Celtics
39 points 7 assists and 5 rebounds.
It takes so much pressure off your offense when your point guard is a great scorer. Why? Because he is handeling the ball most of the time. Sorry If given the choice I would take Rose over Rondo anytime.

Yeah, but 29 / 13 accounts for more points than 39 / 7, right?  The six extra baskets trumps the ten extra points, don't they?  Also, the 13 extra rebounds certainly create more offensive possessions.  

Rose is an amazing player, but there's no need to downplay Rondo's contributions.  When he's been asked to score, he's generally scored.  Sure, he benefits from the "big three", but what point guard doesn't have greater success around good teammates?

I am not trying to downplay Rondo's contributions. He has stepped up and played well and he deserves the recognition he is getting.

For three years teams have gameplanned to make Rondo shoot the ball.
When we have lost the gameplan has worked in the past. To his credit Rondo has developed his game and is playing great.

Rose can score. Whenever his team needs two points he can take the  shot or drive and dish. He also has a nice array of moves off the dribble. He put up 21 ppg during the regular season and 27 ppg vs the Cavs last round. He takes pressure off your offense and it easy to surround him with Brad Miller and Joakim Noah type players. He is a classic point guard think Isiah Thomas. Rose > Rondo right now and in the future. No disrespect to Rajon.

[Fafnir]

Danny took Rondo for much the same reason that he took Marcus Banks, and why OKC took Westbrook:  he loved the physical tools that Rondo possessed, and thought that he'd be more productive in a system better suited to his skills.

And I'll add that I don't think Danny anticipated how good Rondo would become.

If he had I don't think he'd have let so many other teams have a shot at him.

[csfansince60s]

Not yet.....BUT...if Le Queen deigns to go to the Windy City...I think immediately. Look at what the Big Three have done for Rondo.

  Rondo has better stats when one or more of them are out. Rose's stats will probably drop as well if LeBron goes there and dominates the ball.

I agree, but just as the Big Three have made RR better, so will Le Queen make Rose better. And as RR has taught us, stats alone do not necessarily an All Star make.

   And had LeBron made all of his teammates better in Cleveland? Any of them? Those guys might have made Rondo better when he was a 2nd year player averaging 8 points and 5 assists but they aren't responsible for the leap his game has taken over the last year and a half or so.

I think that one quality of a great player (not a requirement, though) is that ability to make those around you more effective. LeBron certainly does this. Mo Wms,Parker, West and Z get way more open looks because of James. Verajao is freer to roam and cause havoc, especially on the offensive end because James has his back defensively. Personally, I don't think that these guys have a ton of talent, but Mo Wms became an "all-star" (notice the lower case because RR deserved it over him last year)because of James.

And regarding RR, yes GPA aided in his development tremendously, and helped make him what he is today. I think the same will occur with Rose and James.

[Donoghus]

Danny took Rondo for much the same reason that he took Marcus Banks, and why OKC took Westbrook:  he loved the physical tools that Rondo possessed, and thought that he'd be more productive in a system better suited to his skills.

And I'll add that I don't think Danny anticipated how good Rondo would become.

If he had I don't think he'd have let so many other teams have a shot at him.

I'm not sure anyone not named MikeDfromNP anticipated it.