Bill Walkers 21 pt game vs Cavs( Video) Update: Walker scores 22 vs Det

[clover]

The Knicks are aware of Williams' talent. They actually have scouts that know the game.  They more than likely wanted Walker.  I mean Dantoni is awful coach but, he has eyes.

He wasn't going to get any run behind:

Pierce
Allen
Allen
Daniels

Think you missed the point:

a) 3 of the 4 guys you mention have expiring contracts, and the other could. I'm talking about the future.

b) The Knicks wanted Walker? You'd have to assume -- they traded for him. But I have a hard time believing there's no way the deal goes down without Walker.

Exactly.  They're referring to him as a 'throw in' in the NY press.

[Bossco]

Well for the people who ask what player that doc refused to play is contributing to his current team - I suggest you look at the box score and highlights of the recent Knicks blowout of the Pistons.

Oops! doc. Looks like there are coaches who believe in giving young players a chance. That Billy Walker must really be practicing well down in NY, to earn him a chance to be in the starting lineup so soon.

[pearljammer10]

Good for Bill Walker, Im happy for him... But honestly. Would Bill Walker have gotten us a championship? Really now. He is putting up big scoring numbers on a run and gun team that doesnt play defense and is just playing for a good lottery number and a chance at a big name free agent. Theyve cashed in this season long ago. I know he should have gotten at least some playing time...But whose minutes does he take? Quis? Hes playing great...Tony Allen? Hes playing great... Pierce? I dont think so either.

[2short]

it would have been nice to keep walker (not giddens) to develop since he was on the cheap and showed potential
if it was a different c's team he'd still be around

[wiley]

I could be clueless but it seems to me that a coach who busts his butt to get his players to play successfully within a system (smart basketball), must also be able to say:  Well, he hasn't fully grasped the system, but I'm going to put him on the floor anyway for his energy and offense, system be [dang]ed...

I guess the issue is whether this is doable on a championship contending team....I would have liked the Celtics/Doc to try it.   One reason is that the Celtics don't play in a bubble of meaningless grey ooze.  They play in this place called the Garden, filled with these things called fans.  And some energy and a dunk or two is sometimes enough to spark a stretch of inspired basketball that turns the "system" into this teeny tiny little shiny thing far off in the distance that no one can even recognize.  Emotion and playing in the zone can't last forever, we know, so eventually the little shiny thing returns to the foreground and the system re-asserts itself....Meanwhile, the other team might be down 20.

It's okay to be married to the system, but a good coach will have his affairs....In fact, I would think if any team could have an affair and then get right back to the marraige it would be a veteran team, but this is where my knowledge is limited.  Is the system that fragile on vet-stuffed team like the Celtics?

[screwedupmaniac]

The Knicks are aware of Williams' talent. They actually have scouts that know the game.  They more than likely wanted Walker.  I mean Dantoni is awful coach but, he has eyes.

He wasn't going to get any run behind:

Pierce
Allen
Allen
Daniels

Think you missed the point:

a) 3 of the 4 guys you mention have expiring contracts, and the other could. I'm talking about the future.

b) The Knicks wanted Walker? You'd have to assume -- they traded for him. But I have a hard time believing there's no way the deal goes down without Walker.

Exactly.  They're referring to him as a 'throw in' in the NY press.

I find it personally frustrating that we trade away Skywalker when he was considered an unneccessary "throw in" for the trade to work, only to turn around and pick up the corpse of Finley to replace a young and athletic Walker. Only time will tell if trading him in this deal was another Joe Johnson-esque situation, but it doesn't look good so far.

I mean, really? We couldn't have used this past season to train Billy for the playoffs and give him some legitimate playing time against the non-contenders of the league? I think Doc would have played Baby or House at SF before he ever considered the idea of Walker playing meaningful minutes.

[screwedupmaniac]

I could be clueless but it seems to me that a coach who busts his butt to get his players to play successfully within a system (smart basketball), must also be able to say:  Well, he hasn't fully grasped the system, but I'm going to put him on the floor anyway for his energy and offense, system be [dang]ed...

I guess the issue is whether this is doable on a championship contending team....I would have liked the Celtics/Doc to try it.   One reason is that the Celtics don't play in a bubble of meaningless grey ooze.  They play in this place called the Garden, filled with these things called fans.  And some energy and a dunk or two is sometimes enough to spark a stretch of inspired basketball that turns the "system" into this teeny tiny little shiny thing far off in the distance that no one can even recognize.  Emotion and playing in the zone can't last forever, we know, so eventually the little shiny thing returns to the foreground and the system re-asserts itself....Meanwhile, the other team might be down 20.

It's okay to be married to the system, but a good coach will have his affairs....In fact, I would think if any team could have an affair and then get right back to the marraige it would be a veteran team, but this is where my knowledge is limited.  Is the system that fragile on vet-stuffed team like the Celtics?

TP, i agree completely. Looking at teams like Cleveland, Atlanta, San Antonio, and Dallas who trust their young talent to give them energy for stretches further enforces this. Guys like JJ Hickson, JJ Barea, Dejuan Blair, George Hill, and a good chunk of the Atlanta Hawks lineup are helping their teams win games. And Bill Walker couldn't be given 10 minutes against lottery teams? I mean, it couldn't have been much worse than watching our PG sized guards try to defend at SF...

[Fafnir]

I could be clueless but it seems to me that a coach who busts his butt to get his players to play successfully within a system (smart basketball), must also be able to say:  Well, he hasn't fully grasped the system, but I'm going to put him on the floor anyway for his energy and offense, system be [dang]ed...

I guess the issue is whether this is doable on a championship contending team....I would have liked the Celtics/Doc to try it.   One reason is that the Celtics don't play in a bubble of meaningless grey ooze.  They play in this place called the Garden, filled with these things called fans.  And some energy and a dunk or two is sometimes enough to spark a stretch of inspired basketball that turns the "system" into this teeny tiny little shiny thing far off in the distance that no one can even recognize.  Emotion and playing in the zone can't last forever, we know, so eventually the little shiny thing returns to the foreground and the system re-asserts itself....Meanwhile, the other team might be down 20.

It's okay to be married to the system, but a good coach will have his affairs....In fact, I would think if any team could have an affair and then get right back to the marraige it would be a veteran team, but this is where my knowledge is limited.  Is the system that fragile on vet-stuffed team like the Celtics?

TP, i agree completely. Looking at teams like Cleveland, Atlanta, San Antonio, and Dallas who trust their young talent to give them energy for stretches further enforces this. Guys like JJ Hickson, JJ Barea, Dejuan Blair, George Hill, and a good chunk of the Atlanta Hawks lineup are helping their teams win games. And Bill Walker couldn't be given 10 minutes against lottery teams? I mean, it couldn't have been much worse than watching our PG sized guards try to defend at SF...

All of those players have shown more than Bill Walker in their limited minutes. Even then they had their minutes jerked around because they haven't been consistent players. I hope Bill Walker makes the most of this opportunity, but scoring in two games doesn't make him a player.

Walker was a disaster last year, he could easily be the sort of player who needs to be given a lot of leash to develop. Think Tony Allen, good as a starter and not so good off the bench, during his first couple of years as a Celtic. (He's gotten somewhat better at coming off the bench)

The Celtics weren't ever in a position to give him that much rope.

[Beat LA]

I watched the Cavs-Knicks game and Walker looked good.  Sure he had a nice dunk, but he also looked smooth going to the hoop, and he made a couple of jumpers as well - including at least one falling away from LeBron.  He also seemed to be the only Knick that hustled and at least tried on the defensive end, and sure, he made a dumb foul (a clear path, I think), but he needs playing time to correct those mistakes - something that K.C., I mean, Doc Rivers, never gave him.

And for everyone who thinks that it's just because of the run-and-gun style of New York, don't forget that not too long ago (06-07) the Celtics were a running team as well on which Tony Allen had the best stretch of his career during the 18-game losing streak I believe (man, can't forget watching that stretch of games).  The kid (Sky Walker) can play, and I really don't understand why he never got a chance (yeah, I know about defense, blah, blah, blah), when after last season Pierce said that Walker was ready to contribute during his rookie campaign.  He at least should have gotten Tony's minutes.  Tony the Turnover has never, and will never, play well, despite what people say - I groan every time he checks in.  I still don't get why this moron is on our roster.  He's a complete bonehead on and off the court who is too short to defend Kobe, LeBron, etc., still can't make a jump shot to save his life, or play under control.  Occasionally, like in the game against the Bobcats, he played well, except for the fact that he has now added a new little deficiency to his truly offensive game - his inability to make free throws.  When the Lakers came to town I almost died of shock in the first half when he made back-to-back jump shots and actually played effectively - that's as good as he'll ever get.  He should have retired at halftime.

By the way, it can't all be about defense, at some point you do have to have players on your team who can score, now and for the FUTURE.  I wish him the best, and I have a feeling that we might regret this move a few years down the road.  

[footey]

I think Doc never gave Walker burn because he did not show intensity on defense. This explains why Giddens got more opportunities to play. Walker is clearly superior to Giddens offensively.

Ditto Tony Allen. Doc sticks with TA because of his defensive skill set.

[screwedupmaniac]

I could be clueless but it seems to me that a coach who busts his butt to get his players to play successfully within a system (smart basketball), must also be able to say:  Well, he hasn't fully grasped the system, but I'm going to put him on the floor anyway for his energy and offense, system be [dang]ed...

I guess the issue is whether this is doable on a championship contending team....I would have liked the Celtics/Doc to try it.   One reason is that the Celtics don't play in a bubble of meaningless grey ooze.  They play in this place called the Garden, filled with these things called fans.  And some energy and a dunk or two is sometimes enough to spark a stretch of inspired basketball that turns the "system" into this teeny tiny little shiny thing far off in the distance that no one can even recognize.  Emotion and playing in the zone can't last forever, we know, so eventually the little shiny thing returns to the foreground and the system re-asserts itself....Meanwhile, the other team might be down 20.

It's okay to be married to the system, but a good coach will have his affairs....In fact, I would think if any team could have an affair and then get right back to the marraige it would be a veteran team, but this is where my knowledge is limited.  Is the system that fragile on vet-stuffed team like the Celtics?

TP, i agree completely. Looking at teams like Cleveland, Atlanta, San Antonio, and Dallas who trust their young talent to give them energy for stretches further enforces this. Guys like JJ Hickson, JJ Barea, Dejuan Blair, George Hill, and a good chunk of the Atlanta Hawks lineup are helping their teams win games. And Bill Walker couldn't be given 10 minutes against lottery teams? I mean, it couldn't have been much worse than watching our PG sized guards try to defend at SF...

All of those players have shown more than Bill Walker in their limited minutes. Even then they had their minutes jerked around because they haven't been consistent players. I hope Bill Walker makes the most of this opportunity, but scoring in two games doesn't make him a player.

Walker was a disaster last year, he could easily be the sort of player who needs to be given a lot of leash to develop. Think Tony Allen, good as a starter and not so good off the bench, during his first couple of years as a Celtic. (He's gotten somewhat better at coming off the bench)

The Celtics weren't ever in a position to give him that much rope.

I guess that's the thing though, I don't even remember Bill Walker getting more playing time than the last 30 seconds of a blowout loss. He's never been given the opportunity to prove his worth on the court until now with the Knicks. Only time will tell if we gave up on him too early or not. I won't be too upset unless his 20ppg streak extends significantly.

[Fafnir]

I guess that's the thing though, I don't even remember Bill Walker getting more playing time than the last 30 seconds of a blowout loss. He's never been given the opportunity to prove his worth on the court until now with the Knicks. Only time will tell if we gave up on him too early or not. I won't be too upset unless his 20ppg streak extends significantly.

He got minutes at times, he never did anything good with them.

I remember one chance on St. Patrick's day last year in Chicago. He single-handedly gave the Bulls 6 points at the free throw line on stupid stupid fouls because he didn't have a clue how to play defense.

I agree he didn't get a lot of chances, but its the NBA.

[2short]

The Knicks are aware of Williams' talent. They actually have scouts that know the game.  They more than likely wanted Walker.  I mean Dantoni is awful coach but, he has eyes.

He wasn't going to get any run behind:

Pierce
Allen
Allen
Daniels

Think you missed the point:

a) 3 of the 4 guys you mention have expiring contracts, and the other could. I'm talking about the future.

b) The Knicks wanted Walker? You'd have to assume -- they traded for him. But I have a hard time believing there's no way the deal goes down without Walker.

Exactly.  They're referring to him as a 'throw in' in the NY press.

I find it personally frustrating that we trade away Skywalker when he was considered an unneccessary "throw in" for the trade to work, only to turn around and pick up the corpse of Finley to replace a young and athletic Walker. Only time will tell if trading him in this deal was another Joe Johnson-esque situation, but it doesn't look good so far.

I mean, really? We couldn't have used this past season to train Billy for the playoffs and give him some legitimate playing time against the non-contenders of the league? I think Doc would have played Baby or House at SF before he ever considered the idea of Walker playing meaningful minutes.

I hope walker does turn out to be a good player in the league.  But if we had to throw him in to get nate robinson its a done deal!  Robinson is a proven player, huge upgrade over eddie (sorry buddy) and can win us games.  I would have liked to keep walker around but how long would he be here before winning us a game?

[hwangjini_1]

honestly, if i had to pick one player between walker and robinson right now, i would pick robinson.

he does more with the basketball than dunk and score, and he does those better than walker.

robinson is the better player now, and for years to come.

i am happy with the trade by ainge.

[clover]

I guess that's the thing though, I don't even remember Bill Walker getting more playing time than the last 30 seconds of a blowout loss. He's never been given the opportunity to prove his worth on the court until now with the Knicks. Only time will tell if we gave up on him too early or not. I won't be too upset unless his 20ppg streak extends significantly.

He got minutes at times, he never did anything good with them.

I remember one chance on St. Patrick's day last year in Chicago. He single-handedly gave the Bulls 6 points at the free throw line on stupid stupid fouls because he didn't have a clue how to play defense.

I agree he didn't get a lot of chances, but its the NBA.

Remember how he 'surprised' in his chances last year?  At the start of this season the beat reporters were saying that he had earned more opportunity this year off of what he did last year.  Then he got hurt and Doc was Doc...