Author Topic: Hypothetical legal questions (possibly for Roy)  (Read 33975 times)

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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #60 on: November 11, 2011, 05:37:20 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I guess part of my concern is I have no faith in the school to do the right thing. The school's stance right now is....."We covered up heinous acts for a decade....now trust us to make this right".

Actually I think PSU has the benefit of the Catholic thing to try to show them the way. 

I was about to say that I agree (that the Catholic thing showed that running from it, or covering it up means way worse repercussions), but turns out its exactly what they did. I don't think you can equate the two scandals due to the just systemic nature the catholic church covered up decades and decades of abuse and hundreds (or even thousands) of victims, but you can definitely compare them.

In the short term I think its only gonna get worse. There is still the trial, and all the blowout as more things become public and more victims come forward, but like I said..in 10 yrs it'll be more about how this severely tainted JoePa's legacy than it is about PSU's utter and unforgivable handling of it.

But then, JoePa has been bigger than PSU for a good 20 years now, right? Its shocking that the evil actions of one man could have such staggering resonance within a program.

Yeah man, the more I think about it, this is really awful. You might be on to something.

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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #61 on: November 11, 2011, 05:40:13 PM »

Offline Chris

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I think you're running from one extreme to the other.  Before all this, most people probably didn't think Penn State was this great school.  If it wasn't for sports, most people would have never heard of it.  Not saying it's bad, just nobody cares.



To me, this is the key, and something that kids should learn about most schools.  If you aren't going to Harvard or Princeton, then what you are getting from whatever school you go to is an education, not a resume. 

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #62 on: November 11, 2011, 05:40:42 PM »

Offline eja117

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Yeah. I guess I need to start thinking of ten years from now. Maybe then I can wear my hat again and brag about where I went to school again.  Yeah. Ten years. That's my time frame. Juuuusssttt in time for my kid to start thinking about schools.

Hogwarts got through a war. They had an alumni that cannot be named. I can get through this.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #63 on: November 11, 2011, 05:41:29 PM »

Offline eja117

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I think you're running from one extreme to the other.  Before all this, most people probably didn't think Penn State was this great school.  If it wasn't for sports, most people would have never heard of it.  Not saying it's bad, just nobody cares.



To me, this is the key, and something that kids should learn about most schools.  If you aren't going to Harvard or Princeton, then what you are getting from whatever school you go to is an education, not a resume. 
I'll agree to disagree and see the logic of the premise.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #64 on: November 11, 2011, 08:33:07 PM »

Offline BASS_THUMPER

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I think you're running from one extreme to the other.  Before all this, most people probably didn't think Penn State was this great school.  If it wasn't for sports, most people would have never heard of it.  Not saying it's bad, just nobody cares.



To me, this is the key, and something that kids should learn about most schools.  If you aren't going to Harvard or Princeton, then what you are getting from whatever school you go to is an education, not a resume. 
I'll agree to disagree and see the logic of the premise.



yes..

your hypothesis dont match with the equation of fig newton's law of physics..

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #65 on: November 12, 2011, 03:18:11 AM »

Offline hwangjini_1

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First word that used to enter people's minds when I said "PSU" was "awesome" or "cool" or at least "fun".

I always thought 'Linebackers'.

I always though Turfgrass management.  They have a pretty kickbutt program

Though Michigan State's may be better... Must have something to do with being land grant universities. :)

Also, for the arguments above, please prove that your under/non hiring was due to the scandal and not your own shortcomings.

I really don't think psu grads are suddenly facing a dramatic reduction in their employment opportunities, or a reduction in promotions for those already employed.
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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #66 on: November 12, 2011, 07:26:05 AM »

Offline eja117

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First word that used to enter people's minds when I said "PSU" was "awesome" or "cool" or at least "fun".

I always thought 'Linebackers'.

I always though Turfgrass management.  They have a pretty kickbutt program

Though Michigan State's may be better... Must have something to do with being land grant universities. :)

Also, for the arguments above, please prove that your under/non hiring was due to the scandal and not your own shortcomings.

I really don't think psu grads are suddenly facing a dramatic reduction in their employment opportunities, or a reduction in promotions for those already employed.
Well I guess one thing to look at would be how many recruiters come to campus.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #67 on: November 12, 2011, 07:56:11 AM »

Offline eja117

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I definitely think PSU will see a lot less applicants in coming years. They'll lose a lot of good students, which may drop the scores/rankings of the school. Then the school really will have a worse rep. The school really would be considered a less good school, because it would be.  I also expect a lot of good faculty to leave if they can. I definitely expect a brain drain, which really would hurt the school

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #68 on: November 12, 2011, 10:12:26 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I think you're running from one extreme to the other.  Before all this, most people probably didn't think Penn State was this great school.  If it wasn't for sports, most people would have never heard of it.  Not saying it's bad, just nobody cares.



To me, this is the key, and something that kids should learn about most schools.  If you aren't going to Harvard or Princeton, then what you are getting from whatever school you go to is an education, not a resume. 
Depends upon your major. If you are a software engineer, MIT beats the crap out of Harvard.

This also depends upon the job. Some jobs will only take from TOP schools. Others from top 100 schools.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #69 on: November 12, 2011, 07:20:54 PM »

Offline 18isGREATERthan72

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I think you're running from one extreme to the other.  Before all this, most people probably didn't think Penn State was this great school.  If it wasn't for sports, most people would have never heard of it.  Not saying it's bad, just nobody cares.



To me, this is the key, and something that kids should learn about most schools.  If you aren't going to Harvard or Princeton, then what you are getting from whatever school you go to is an education, not a resume. 

Agreed.  Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth.  Those are schools that resonate in an interview, or on a resume.  Anything else, you're paying for more, but it really won't have as big of an impact in getting a job as you THINK it will.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #70 on: November 13, 2011, 09:34:07 AM »

Offline eja117

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I want to sorta point this out and get the media pecking order straight

If you raise mean dogs and kill them you go to jail for years and go bankrupt, but you get to redeem yourself and resume your career.

If you commit no crime and actually report a possible crime to your supervisor within 24 hours you get to lose your 60 year rock solid career and get vilified by the press.

If you get accused of raping women twice and clearly had sex with one in a locked bathroom with  a guard in front of the door and her friends went to the police that same day...you don't get arrested and after some counseling you get paid to play in the Super Bowl.

Let's get it straight now.  Who's the more heinous PA QB?  McQueery or Rothlisburger?

Lesson....if Sandusky had just raped young women instead of very young boys he could say it was consensual get paid to coach in the Super Bowl.   Hooray media.  Placing rights of women lower than animals and rumors!


I wish you could sue for trial by media. Not sure how Sandusky ever gets a fair and impartial trial now

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #71 on: November 13, 2011, 11:29:58 AM »

Offline BUTerrier

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If you commit no crime and actually report a possible crime to your supervisor within 24 hours you get to lose your 60 year rock solid career and get vilified by the press.

I understand your point, but come on. I'm not suggesting Paterno should be charged criminally by any means, but no one can argue that Paterno shouldn't have done more than he did. Maybe not in 2002, no, but to suggest that Paterno didn't know Sandusky was still on campus and using the facilities? And if the rumors about using Sandusky? to help recruit players over the past 5 or 10 years is proven true, it doesn't paint a rosy picture of Paterno. Even Paterno himself admits he should have done more. So you don't charge him criminally, but he had to lose his job here. I'm not saying that Paterno should be black-listed from all coaching jobs (though, honestly, if I were him I'd call it a career at his age; why start from scratch?), but to suggest he shouldn't get punished based on Vick? I mean, Vick went to prison, man.

Quote
I wish you could sue for trial by media. Not sure how Sandusky ever gets a fair and impartial trial now

This assumes Sandusky is going to go to trial, which is far from a safe assumption. Even if the media never got on this story at all, you have eyewitness accounts of his molestation of children and his admission to concerned parents that things happened. No lawyer in his right mind would let him go to trial on that; I'd bet anything he cuts a quick and quiet deal for 15-20 years in prison, minimum. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if it's more.

Agreed.  Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Dartmouth.  Those are schools that resonate in an interview, or on a resume.  Anything else, you're paying for more, but it really won't have as big of an impact in getting a job as you THINK it will.

I think it depends on what you're applying for. I went to BU undergrad and Marquette Law. Practicing law in Wisconsin -- where you're really only competing against students from UW, Marquette, Chicago, John Marshall, and maybe Minnesota -- you'd be surprised how valuable a resume and transcript from MU Law can be when I'm applying to an alumnus's firm. I once got a call back for a second interview specifically because I took my Evidence and Criminal Procedure classes with professors the guy knew were the best at the law school, and he figured I must know my stuff if I learned it from them. And while I may lean more on my law school connection than my undergrad, coming out of law school I was VERY close to getting an Assistant DA Position up in a county an hour north of Milwaukee specifically because the DA there went to BU undergrad and law and liked the idea of having a fellow Terrier in his office. So you never know what doors might open based on your school's name.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #72 on: November 13, 2011, 12:17:27 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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I think Paterno is clearly the fall guy.  He did what was necessary under the letter of the law.  But as it was said I think society expected more would be done.  This stuff happened under his watch so he is paying for it.

These are some  great articles to explain how we got here:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/how-a-scandal-brought-1224099.html

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=dw-wetzel_penn_state_child_sex_case_110511

http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/press.aspx?id=6270

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-pennstateex-coach-allegations

I feel bad for Joe Pa.   But I think we need to remember he is not the victim here.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #73 on: November 13, 2011, 04:16:30 PM »

Offline eja117

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I definitely don't think Joe can be around kids/young men at this time.  I definitely think he should be on suspension/leave till things are figured out.

I just think there was a huge and fast rush to judgement on him and McQueery while everyone looked the other way on Rothlisburger who did, or was at least accused of doing (twice) a far worse thing.

I just think it speaks to the way the media does stuff

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #74 on: November 13, 2011, 05:31:17 PM »

Offline Chris

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I definitely don't think Joe can be around kids/young men at this time.  I definitely think he should be on suspension/leave till things are figured out.

I just think there was a huge and fast rush to judgement on him and McQueery while everyone looked the other way on Rothlisburger who did, or was at least accused of doing (twice) a far worse thing.

I just think it speaks to the way the media does stuff

Well, I think a lot of people would disagree about which is worse. 

Of course, there is still a question of what Paterno actually did, but the perception among the people who are condemning him is that he knowingly looked the other way, in order to allow a friend/colleague pray on young children in a sickeningly systematic way.

Now, I am not sure I agree with that point of view (still waiting to find out more), but if that is what people believe Paterno is guilty of, I don't think it is very cut and dry that his crime is any worse than Rothelisberger's.