Author Topic: Hypothetical legal questions (possibly for Roy)  (Read 34886 times)

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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #30 on: November 11, 2011, 09:42:21 AM »

Offline eja117

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Money is something they do have, their endowment is like 6.5 billion.  You can bet lawyers will be setting up shop on this one.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Pennsylvania

Already it is projected that this will cost them about 200 million in costs.  That is lawsuits, defense costs and reduced fund raising.

http://www.centralpennbusiness.com/article/20111111/SPORTS/111119962/PSU-scandal-likely-to-cost-hundreds-of-millions&template=sports

No amount of money is going to fix what happened though.

p.s.  We didn't need to help Britain with Argentina, Eja117.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falklands_War

But if you read that we supplied them with missles, air tanker support and supplies.  The French helped them too.

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080713025643AA4YjqI
Falklands? U Penn?

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #31 on: November 11, 2011, 09:54:13 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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I think there should be a law about us knowing a lot less about Tiger.
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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2011, 10:37:54 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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quote]Falklands? U Penn?[/quote]

You had asked earlier about the Falklands and Nato.  I attempted to help with both sorry for the confusion.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2011, 11:11:22 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Roy et all....what would be the chances of a successful class action lawsuit on behalf of students and alumni alleging damages and the need for settlement?  Pretty low, huh.  But seriously. A PSU diploma with Spanier's name on it is a little like saying "I went to KKK University".   I feel I should compensated for that.

I'm sure some clever lawyer could come up with something.  Sue the university for fraud in the inducement, suggesting that you paid tuition under the understanding that the university was running a clean, moral program.  Or something like that.  Intentional / negligent infliction of emotional distress.

I don't think any lawsuit would be particularly successful, but it's probably possible to file something in good faith.  As for a class action, I don't do them, so I don't know all the requirements; no idea if this would pass muster to get a judge to certify it as a class.  Lastly, I know a lot of state universities are immune for being sued in a lot of instances, although I have no idea what Pennsylvania state law is.


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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2011, 12:23:33 PM »

Offline eja117

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quote]Falklands? U Penn?

You had asked earlier about the Falklands and Nato.  I attempted to help with both sorry for the confusion.
[/quote]Oh thanks. I forgot about that question. My mind has been elsewhere lately

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2011, 02:22:32 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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Ok. The cat's outta the bag.  I'm a PSU alum (of course). See ya Saturday Faf.  I'm also a Roman Catholic.  All I need now is to find out I'm a distant relative of Michael Jackson so I can get the frickin trifecta.

For one very very brief moment the PSU scandal actually registered on the wanting to kill myself scale. Not very high, but when you have a very very strong identity attached to something and it becomes this nasty and you find out it was so long and you fear the next thing....your head does weird things.  I have a pic of Paterno in my 4 year old's room. I have another of him on the way down to the basement. I have another poster on the way down that brags I was at his 300th win. I am close to finishing my college scrap book and Joe is in there more than anyone.  I imagine there are other alumni who named their kid's middle names Paterno. In my yearbook there's a huge thing about Sandusky's retirement.

I heard these rumors months ago. Me. I'm just a guy. And I heard them. I never thought it involved this many people for so long.

I went to an interview yesterday and wanted to hide my face. In another interview on Monday a guy held my official PSU transcript in front of him to read every class I took.

My brand has been forever dented and this has definitely caused me some minor pain and suffering. (Obviously nothing compared to the victims, but you see what I'm saying). Every year the school raised my tuition and they did it again to my brother, all the while calling me to ask for more money while I was buying PSU memorabilia, like mugs and jackets (can't wear that for a while, and forget the hat).

I feel entitled to a partial refund. I clearly don't stand as good a chance in an interview now, which is something they advertised to me.....PSU...#1 with corporate recruiters.

The recruiters won't come to campus nearly as much now. I won't get as many interviews now.

I've been damaged.

Roy et all....what would be the chances of a successful class action lawsuit on behalf of students and alumni alleging damages and the need for settlement?  Pretty low, huh.  But seriously. A PSU diploma with Spanier's name on it is a little like saying "I went to KKK University".   I feel I should compensated for that.

sue them based on what?  you paid for your education and they provided the education to you.  

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2011, 02:25:37 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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Ok. The cat's outta the bag.  I'm a PSU alum (of course). See ya Saturday Faf.  I'm also a Roman Catholic.  All I need now is to find out I'm a distant relative of Michael Jackson so I can get the frickin trifecta.

For one very very brief moment the PSU scandal actually registered on the wanting to kill myself scale. Not very high, but when you have a very very strong identity attached to something and it becomes this nasty and you find out it was so long and you fear the next thing....your head does weird things.  I have a pic of Paterno in my 4 year old's room. I have another of him on the way down to the basement. I have another poster on the way down that brags I was at his 300th win. I am close to finishing my college scrap book and Joe is in there more than anyone.  I imagine there are other alumni who named their kid's middle names Paterno. In my yearbook there's a huge thing about Sandusky's retirement.

I heard these rumors months ago. Me. I'm just a guy. And I heard them. I never thought it involved this many people for so long.

I went to an interview yesterday and wanted to hide my face. In another interview on Monday a guy held my official PSU transcript in front of him to read every class I took.

My brand has been forever dented and this has definitely caused me some minor pain and suffering. (Obviously nothing compared to the victims, but you see what I'm saying). Every year the school raised my tuition and they did it again to my brother, all the while calling me to ask for more money while I was buying PSU memorabilia, like mugs and jackets (can't wear that for a while, and forget the hat).

I feel entitled to a partial refund. I clearly don't stand as good a chance in an interview now, which is something they advertised to me.....PSU...#1 with corporate recruiters.

The recruiters won't come to campus nearly as much now. I won't get as many interviews now.

I've been damaged.

Roy et all....what would be the chances of a successful class action lawsuit on behalf of students and alumni alleging damages and the need for settlement?  Pretty low, huh.  But seriously. A PSU diploma with Spanier's name on it is a little like saying "I went to KKK University".   I feel I should compensated for that.

sue them based on what?  you paid for your education and thy provided the education to you. 

I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree
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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2011, 02:26:44 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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Ok. The cat's outta the bag.  I'm a PSU alum (of course). See ya Saturday Faf.  I'm also a Roman Catholic.  All I need now is to find out I'm a distant relative of Michael Jackson so I can get the frickin trifecta.

For one very very brief moment the PSU scandal actually registered on the wanting to kill myself scale. Not very high, but when you have a very very strong identity attached to something and it becomes this nasty and you find out it was so long and you fear the next thing....your head does weird things.  I have a pic of Paterno in my 4 year old's room. I have another of him on the way down to the basement. I have another poster on the way down that brags I was at his 300th win. I am close to finishing my college scrap book and Joe is in there more than anyone.  I imagine there are other alumni who named their kid's middle names Paterno. In my yearbook there's a huge thing about Sandusky's retirement.

I heard these rumors months ago. Me. I'm just a guy. And I heard them. I never thought it involved this many people for so long.

I went to an interview yesterday and wanted to hide my face. In another interview on Monday a guy held my official PSU transcript in front of him to read every class I took.

My brand has been forever dented and this has definitely caused me some minor pain and suffering. (Obviously nothing compared to the victims, but you see what I'm saying). Every year the school raised my tuition and they did it again to my brother, all the while calling me to ask for more money while I was buying PSU memorabilia, like mugs and jackets (can't wear that for a while, and forget the hat).

I feel entitled to a partial refund. I clearly don't stand as good a chance in an interview now, which is something they advertised to me.....PSU...#1 with corporate recruiters.

The recruiters won't come to campus nearly as much now. I won't get as many interviews now.

I've been damaged.

Roy et all....what would be the chances of a successful class action lawsuit on behalf of students and alumni alleging damages and the need for settlement?  Pretty low, huh.  But seriously. A PSU diploma with Spanier's name on it is a little like saying "I went to KKK University".   I feel I should compensated for that.

sue them based on what?  you paid for your education and thy provided the education to you. 

I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

the school doesnt do job placement, they educate.  going out and getting a job is on the individual

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2011, 02:29:37 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

You aren't paying for a degree, you're paying to attend and have the opportunity to, among other things, get a degree.  You don't get a refund if you fail or drop out.

The degree and the opportunities might be what motivates you to go somewhere, but that's not what you're actually buying from them.

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2011, 02:33:34 PM »

Offline Chris

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Ok. The cat's outta the bag.  I'm a PSU alum (of course). See ya Saturday Faf.  I'm also a Roman Catholic.  All I need now is to find out I'm a distant relative of Michael Jackson so I can get the frickin trifecta.

For one very very brief moment the PSU scandal actually registered on the wanting to kill myself scale. Not very high, but when you have a very very strong identity attached to something and it becomes this nasty and you find out it was so long and you fear the next thing....your head does weird things.  I have a pic of Paterno in my 4 year old's room. I have another of him on the way down to the basement. I have another poster on the way down that brags I was at his 300th win. I am close to finishing my college scrap book and Joe is in there more than anyone.  I imagine there are other alumni who named their kid's middle names Paterno. In my yearbook there's a huge thing about Sandusky's retirement.

I heard these rumors months ago. Me. I'm just a guy. And I heard them. I never thought it involved this many people for so long.

I went to an interview yesterday and wanted to hide my face. In another interview on Monday a guy held my official PSU transcript in front of him to read every class I took.

My brand has been forever dented and this has definitely caused me some minor pain and suffering. (Obviously nothing compared to the victims, but you see what I'm saying). Every year the school raised my tuition and they did it again to my brother, all the while calling me to ask for more money while I was buying PSU memorabilia, like mugs and jackets (can't wear that for a while, and forget the hat).

I feel entitled to a partial refund. I clearly don't stand as good a chance in an interview now, which is something they advertised to me.....PSU...#1 with corporate recruiters.

The recruiters won't come to campus nearly as much now. I won't get as many interviews now.

I've been damaged.

Roy et all....what would be the chances of a successful class action lawsuit on behalf of students and alumni alleging damages and the need for settlement?  Pretty low, huh.  But seriously. A PSU diploma with Spanier's name on it is a little like saying "I went to KKK University".   I feel I should compensated for that.

sue them based on what?  you paid for your education and thy provided the education to you. 

I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

the school doesnt do job placement, they educate.  going out and getting a job is on the individual

I also am not so sure that it will have much of an effect on recruiters.

In general, unless you went to someplace like Harvard or Stanford, or the alma mater of the hiring manager, the school you went to will not have much of an effect on your ability to get a job. 

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2011, 02:36:04 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

You aren't paying for a degree, you're paying to attend and have the opportunity to, among other things, get a degree.  You don't get a refund if you fail or drop out.

The degree and the opportunities might be what motivates you to go somewhere, but that's not what you're actually buying from them.

Right now Im going to Umass Boston for my Masters, my brother is going to BC for his MBA.  I have actually really enjoyed several of my teachers and have thought they were some of the best I have ever had.  My brother has been very dissapointed in his teachers at BC and overall much of the stuff we are learning is the same, when comparing our classes and exams.  

We are both paying for an education yes, but the premium that he is paying over me, (about 3 grand more per class) is being paid for the degree, and notariety that comes with it.  Which I think was EJA's point
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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2011, 02:59:18 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

You aren't paying for a degree, you're paying to attend and have the opportunity to, among other things, get a degree.  You don't get a refund if you fail or drop out.

The degree and the opportunities might be what motivates you to go somewhere, but that's not what you're actually buying from them.

Nailed it.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2011, 03:11:47 PM »

Offline indeedproceed

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I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

You aren't paying for a degree, you're paying to attend and have the opportunity to, among other things, get a degree.  You don't get a refund if you fail or drop out.

The degree and the opportunities might be what motivates you to go somewhere, but that's not what you're actually buying from them.

Right now Im going to Umass Boston for my Masters, my brother is going to BC for his MBA.  I have actually really enjoyed several of my teachers and have thought they were some of the best I have ever had.  My brother has been very dissapointed in his teachers at BC and overall much of the stuff we are learning is the same, when comparing our classes and exams. 

We are both paying for an education yes, but the premium that he is paying over me, (about 3 grand more per class) is being paid for the degree, and notariety that comes with it.  Which I think was EJA's point

But FWF's point is still valid. You pay money to the school, but they don't guarantee a degree. If you don't work hard enough, or aren't smart enough to get through, you don't get one, even if you can pay for 4 or 5 years of undergrad.

All the tuition guarantees is the opportunity to pursue an education. That could end up in a degree, or it could not.

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like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2011, 03:19:37 PM »

Online Moranis

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I certainly believe someone could argue that you pay a premium for the name on the diploma and that the school has intentionally depreciated the name on that diploma by its actions.

I don't believe that is a winning argument and I would certainly never take that case, but as Roy says it probably doesn't get an attorney sanctioned for making it (which is perhaps the best advice I could give a new attorney - do not do anything that you think will get you sanctioned).
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Re: Hypothetical legal questions (probably for Roy)
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2011, 03:23:30 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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I respectfully disagree, you are getting an education yes, but you are paying for a degree and the doors that open because you have that degree

You aren't paying for a degree, you're paying to attend and have the opportunity to, among other things, get a degree.  You don't get a refund if you fail or drop out.

The degree and the opportunities might be what motivates you to go somewhere, but that's not what you're actually buying from them.

Right now Im going to Umass Boston for my Masters, my brother is going to BC for his MBA.  I have actually really enjoyed several of my teachers and have thought they were some of the best I have ever had.  My brother has been very dissapointed in his teachers at BC and overall much of the stuff we are learning is the same, when comparing our classes and exams. 

We are both paying for an education yes, but the premium that he is paying over me, (about 3 grand more per class) is being paid for the degree, and notariety that comes with it.  Which I think was EJA's point

But FWF's point is still valid. You pay money to the school, but they don't guarantee a degree. If you don't work hard enough, or aren't smart enough to get through, you don't get one, even if you can pay for 4 or 5 years of undergrad.

All the tuition guarantees is the opportunity to pursue an education. That could end up in a degree, or it could not.

Right but unfortunately, if you go through a couple years and drop out you are pretty much wasting your money. 

My main point is that the most valuable asset that you attain from going to college is the degree.  Education without a completed degree holds little to no future economic benefit. 

Yes tuition allows you to sit for classes, but if Penn state made statements regarding the value of a penn state education, you can see something like this class action law-suits against Law schools for misrepresenting life after law school

http://www.lawschooltransparency.com/2011/10/15-more-aba-approved-law-schools-to-be-sued/
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