Mike Brown does Big Z wrong

[Eja117]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

[Eja117]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities. 

Subbing Big Z in for those 2 minutes Darnell Jackson played couldn't possibly have effected the outcome of the game.  There's no excuse.  They won the game by 16 points.  At any point towards the end of the game he could've called a timeout to put Big Z in.  There's no way he was too "concentrated" on winning the game at the end to remember to put Big Z in.  The only explanation is that he's lazy or an idiot.

yeah. And Shaq is coming back from a sprained rotator cuff and they said they'd be soooo careful with him coming back. Isn't he a big guy? Doesn't he not fit with small ball? he doesn't have the outside shot Z has.

if it's xs and os it's not particularly good xs and os

[nickagneta]

Mike Brown thought it was a bad matchup to put in Zydrunas Ilgauskas into the game. Yet with 1:47 left in the game he had no problem taking Lebron James out of the game and subbing in Jawad Williams.

Apparently, Mike Brown felt that up 16 with 1:47 left the match ups still weren't in the Cavs favor and he had to keep Big Z off the floor.

Apparently, LeBron is so competitive that he lost touch concerning what was happening with his  good friend Zydrunas and when he came out of the game with 1:47 left in the game, up 16 and saw Jawad Williams going in for him, he didn't mention to the coach that he should put Z in given the game was over and Z hadn't played. And, because he obviously knew ahead of time that this was Z's record breaking game and he's such great friends with Z,. probably having to shoot his team's last 10 straight shots to make sure he was the leading scorer in the game got Lebron so tired he forgot about his good friend.

[soap07]

Apparently, LeBron is so competitive that he lost touch concerning what was happening with his  good friend Zydrunas and when he came out of the game with 1:47 left in the game, up 16 and saw Jawad Williams going in for him, he didn't mention to the coach that he should put Z in given the game was over and Z hadn't played. And, because he obviously knew ahead of time that this was Z's record breaking game and he's such great friends with Z,.  probably having to shoot his team's last 10 straight shots to make sure he was the leading scorer in the game got Lebron so tired he forgot about his good friend. 


Okay, so what did Lebron do to your family?

[Eja117]

Mike Brown thought it was a bad matchup to put in Zydrunas Ilgauskas into the game. Yet with 1:47 left in the game he had no problem taking Lebron James out of the game and subbing in Jawad Williams.

Apparently, Mike Brown felt that up 16 with 1:47 left the match ups still weren't in the Cavs favor and he had to keep Big Z off the floor.

Apparently, LeBron is so competitive that he lost touch concerning what was happening with his  good friend Zydrunas and when he came out of the game with 1:47 left in the game, up 16 and saw Jawad Williams going in for him, he didn't mention to the coach that he should put Z in given the game was over and Z hadn't played. And, because he obviously knew ahead of time that this was Z's record breaking game and he's such great friends with Z,. probably having to shoot his team's last 10 straight shots to make sure he was the leading scorer in the game got Lebron so tired he forgot about his good friend.

HA! TP!

[nickagneta]

Apparently, LeBron is so competitive that he lost touch concerning what was happening with his  good friend Zydrunas and when he came out of the game with 1:47 left in the game, up 16 and saw Jawad Williams going in for him, he didn't mention to the coach that he should put Z in given the game was over and Z hadn't played. And, because he obviously knew ahead of time that this was Z's record breaking game and he's such great friends with Z,.  probably having to shoot his team's last 10 straight shots to make sure he was the leading scorer in the game got Lebron so tired he forgot about his good friend. 


Okay, so what did Lebron do to your family?

Nothing. I just think he's a selfish, egotistical, self serving jerk and proves it every time he opens his mouth.

He obviously could care less if Mike Brown put in Ilgauskas or not yet rather than keeping his mouth shut and saying nothing he runs to Z's defense. Well, if he was so concerned about it, why wasn't he aware of what was happening and why didn't he do something about it? LeBron doesn't have the pull to tell Brown, "Put in Z, it's his record breaking game. He flew his family in to see this."?

Of course he does. But he didn't do that because he isn't close to Z and could care less. It was only after he found out what was going on that he goes public and throws his coach under the bus to seem like he is a team guy concerned with his team mates feelings.

The guy does nothing unless it benefits and serves himself.

[Chris]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

Oh, absolutely.  I think it was a terrible decision by Mike Brown.

But I am just saying that I don't think this was a case of him having a vendetta against Z, or simply forgetting.  I think it was a case of him overthinking it, and caring too much about the X's and O's to the detriment of team chemistry.  Pretty much the exact opposite of what Doc normally does.

[nickagneta]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

Oh, absolutely.  I think it was a terrible decision by Mike Brown.

But I am just saying that I don't think this was a case of him having a vendetta against Z, or simply forgetting.  I think it was a case of him overthinking it, and caring too much about the X's and O's to the detriment of team chemistry.  Pretty much the exact opposite of what Doc normally does.

But Chris, if he didn't forget, why, when the game was over with a minute and a half left in the game up 16, why didn't he throw in Ilgauskas when he took out LeBron rather than putting in Jawad Williams?

[Chris]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

Oh, absolutely.  I think it was a terrible decision by Mike Brown.

But I am just saying that I don't think this was a case of him having a vendetta against Z, or simply forgetting.  I think it was a case of him overthinking it, and caring too much about the X's and O's to the detriment of team chemistry.  Pretty much the exact opposite of what Doc normally does.

But Chris, if he didn't forget, why, when the game was over with a minute and a half left in the game up 16, why didn't he throw in Ilgauskas when he took out LeBron rather than putting in Jawad Williams?

Because Z is not a garbage-time player? 

That would be like Doc sitting Rasheed all game because of bad matchups, and then deciding to throw him in for the last 2 minutes. 

I think he is just set on doing things "his" way, and not worrying about things like records for games played. 

[nickagneta]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

Oh, absolutely.  I think it was a terrible decision by Mike Brown.

But I am just saying that I don't think this was a case of him having a vendetta against Z, or simply forgetting.  I think it was a case of him overthinking it, and caring too much about the X's and O's to the detriment of team chemistry.  Pretty much the exact opposite of what Doc normally does.

But Chris, if he didn't forget, why, when the game was over with a minute and a half left in the game up 16, why didn't he throw in Ilgauskas when he took out LeBron rather than putting in Jawad Williams?

Because Z is not a garbage-time player? 

That would be like Doc sitting Rasheed all game because of bad matchups, and then deciding to throw him in for the last 2 minutes. 

I think he is just set on doing things "his" way, and not worrying about things like records for games played. 

That's pretty weak rationale in my book...i think he either didn't know or forgot.

[Eja117]

Honestly, I think Brown's explanation makes sense from a coaching standpoint.  I did not see the game, but that rationale absolutely makes sense from an X's and O's standpoint.

The problem is, he is dealing with a very talented team with a lot of egos, and some clear chemistry concerns.  If he wants to win a championship, he needs to learn to concentrate a little more on working with the personalities.


I wonder if any assistant coaches reminded him during the game of Ilgauskus' pending accomplishment. It's possible that in the heat in the moment something like this would escape his mind.

If they didn't, they should be fired.

Ultimately though I don't think he forgot.  I think he just legitimately thought Z was not a good fit, given the way the game was going.

Chris I see where you're coming from and I don't think players are owed much, but think of it from a Celts perspective.

Let's say a good and well liked Celtic was juuussst about to get the record for most games played in a Celts uniform, and he invited his whole family and got just about the only DNP in his career (and was nowhere near the worst player on the team). What would you say if the coach was just like "Oh yeah. I forgot. bad match up" and the game was almost a blowout?

What if this happened to...idk...Walta or Pierce like 7 years from now when he's not as good, or Perk or something.

I'm pretty sure a lot of Cs fans would be pretty ticked.

And it's not like Z is a punk or something

Oh, absolutely.  I think it was a terrible decision by Mike Brown.

But I am just saying that I don't think this was a case of him having a vendetta against Z, or simply forgetting.  I think it was a case of him overthinking it, and caring too much about the X's and O's to the detriment of team chemistry.  Pretty much the exact opposite of what Doc normally does.

But Chris, if he didn't forget, why, when the game was over with a minute and a half left in the game up 16, why didn't he throw in Ilgauskas when he took out LeBron rather than putting in Jawad Williams?

Because Z is not a garbage-time player? 

That would be like Doc sitting Rasheed all game because of bad matchups, and then deciding to throw him in for the last 2 minutes. 

I think he is just set on doing things "his" way, and not worrying about things like records for games played. 

That's pretty weak rationale in my book...i think he either didn't know or forgot.

If the guy knew and forgot Big Zs whole family was there, then he needs those memory technique tapes

[Finkelskyhook]

I would suggest that the Sixers sign Iverson and immediately trade Iverson and pieces for Ilgauskas.

If Brown hasn't already ruined chemistry with this pathetic move Iverson could put the finishing touches on it for him.

[ManUp]

I find this too be an accurate assessment of his offensive schemes.

[moiso]

I always thought Zydrunas was a funny name but Jawad has him beat.  I also noticed Darnell Jackson got some minutes also.  Poor on Brown's part.

[scoop]

I watched this game and I have no problem with Brown's decision - Moon and West were playing well, Dallas went small and Z was just a bad fit .

To me it wouldn't make no sense whatsoever to play him in garbage time (or even 1 minute at the end of the 2nd/3rd quarter or something like that) - I think that would be kind of disrespectful and take away some meaning from the moment.

What they should have done: started him. Shaq would be glad to grant him the courtesy. The Cavs are generally a very good organization dealing with their players, but they could have done better here. No big deal though.

Btw, this episode highlights why Cleveland must trade one of the glaciers ASAP.