Isiah Thomas miffed at Magic's comments in new book

[nickagneta]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4585983

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/10/22/isiah.magic/1.html

Apparently, the once chummy relationship between Magic and Isiah has soured and now gone public. In a book written by Jackie MacMullen entitled "When the Game Was Ours" and co-authored by Larry Bird and Magic Johnson, Magic goes on to mention Isiah 26 separate times with most being very unflattering.


Some of the things that Magic suggests is:

• that he no longer is close because Isiah has been questioning his sexuality ever since the HIV revelation came out.Even going so far as telling Magic's agent that people were saying Magic was gay and saying he didn't know what Magic did when he was in LA.
• that Isiah was his own worst enemy in being shunned off the Dream Team because there was no one on the team that wanted to play with him. He admits to being part of the group that helped to blackball him from the team.
• he refuses to recommend Isiah for anymore NBA jobs after
• he was not a part of the plot to not pass the ball to Michael Jordan during the 1985 All-Star game which led to a very chilly relationship between MJ and Magic for many a year. That left basically Isiah as the only other person that has been involved in that long time NBA rumor.

Some pretty heady stuff. Bird had nothing to say about Isiah in the entire book, which I guess is probably good because it's my guess that he probably could have gone on for hours about bad stuff about Isiah given he fired him upon becoming his boss and Isiah and Rodman had some racially insensitive stuff to say about Larry once.

[Celtic]

Man, that's some really interesting stuff, mainly the Dream Team and 1985 All star game info. I had always heard that Isiah was a bit of a pain, but this is some pretty bad stuff.

[fairweatherfan]

Not a big surprise about the Dream Team - as much as I hate to say it, on merit Isiah probably deserved to get in over Stockton.  Always seemed kinda political.

As for the 85 freezeout, how could Magic be involved?  He might've known about it, or even approved, but Jordan was on the EC team.  Seems like only Eastern guys mattered for that.  But yeah, Isiah seems like the least popular guy of the '80s greats by far.

[nickagneta]

I'm definitely getting the book on my next trip to the bookstore. The 1985 All-Star thing never did make any sense to me since Magic wasn't playing in the East and couldn't pass MJ the ball. I had heard this rumor a few times before and always shook my head in misunderstanding as to Magic's involvement.

Part I think is awful is Isiah's comments with Lon Rosen:

The book's main source for this allegation is Magic's longtime agent, Lon Rosen, who says Thomas told him in 1991, "I keep hearing Magic is gay.''

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

On Wednesday, Thomas denied that conversation. "I don't know Lon like that,'' he said, adding that he reached out to Johnson at the time. "I remember calling Magic and saying [of the allegations that he was rumor-mongering], 'You know that's some bulls---.' ''

Now having been old enough to remember Magic's revealing of his illness, there were a ton of Magic being gay rumors. And, there was a fairly large brouhaha over him playing in that All-Star game and unnamed players saying they were afraid to play with and against Magic for fear of him getting cut and having his blood hit them somewhere where they could be infected, but names never came out.

So I wouldn't put anything past Isiah who, as much as he proclaims being above prejudice, has been caught being a sexual harasser in the workplace and did say some unflattering things about Larry's whiteness once, so I guess I am more apt to believe Magic and Rosen.

[fairweatherfan]

The 1985 All-Star thing never did make any sense to me since Magic wasn't playing in the East and couldn't pass MJ the ball. I had heard this rumor a few times before and always shook my head in misunderstanding as to Magic's involvement.

Now that I think about it, maybe the idea is that Magic used his popularity and stature to get the Eastern players to participate in the freezeout.  I've always heard Isiah was the main culprit though.

[nickagneta]

I think it hilarious that in the SI article I referenced, Isiah starts spouting off about Magic hating Larry when they played against each other as a defense for somehow showing that Magic is two-faced. Larry and Magic have always stated they didn't like each other until they had to do that Converse commercial together and from then on became fast friends as they realized just how much they had in common and were alike.

Magic has commented in the past that one of the first and most supportive phone calls he got after the HIV story broke was from Larry and that they were both in tears together during the phone call. I just can't help but want to believe Magic in these allegations and see the Isiah spreading of the gay rumors to be very like his persona that we have seen publicly.

[2short]

Isiah Thomas isn't worth even having a forum on
Pitino realm
(see how much I think of him)

[GKC]

I just saw Jackie guest on PTI and talk about how weird it was.

- They were best friends
- Magic has a guest room in his mansion that he once nicknamed the Isiah room
- Isiah actually has an HIV brother, and confided in Magic about it.

This is weird, as Magic doesn't usually seem like a guy to come out with these dick moves. I'm not defending Isiah. Don't like the guy. But this seems very uncharacteristic of Magic.

[bdm860]

I'm definitely getting the book on my next trip to the bookstore. The 1985 All-Star thing never did make any sense to me since Magic wasn't playing in the East and couldn't pass MJ the ball. I had heard this rumor a few times before and always shook my head in misunderstanding as to Magic's involvement.

Part I think is awful is Isiah's comments with Lon Rosen:

The book's main source for this allegation is Magic's longtime agent, Lon Rosen, who says Thomas told him in 1991, "I keep hearing Magic is gay.''

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

On Wednesday, Thomas denied that conversation. "I don't know Lon like that,'' he said, adding that he reached out to Johnson at the time. "I remember calling Magic and saying [of the allegations that he was rumor-mongering], 'You know that's some bulls---.' ''

Now having been old enough to remember Magic's revealing of his illness, there were a ton of Magic being gay rumors. And, there was a fairly large brouhaha over him playing in that All-Star game and unnamed players saying they were afraid to play with and against Magic for fear of him getting cut and having his blood hit them somewhere where they could be infected, but names never came out.

So I wouldn't put anything past Isiah who, as much as he proclaims being above prejudice, has been caught being a sexual harasser in the workplace and did say some unflattering things about Larry's whiteness once, so I guess I am more apt to believe Magic and Rosen.

All I know about the Isiah saying Magic is gay is what I read in the quote above.  Personally I don't view that as Isiah saying Magic is gay.

I picture me and a very good friend who I work with but lives across the country and that I only see a few times a year.  One friend gets a disease that at the time is largely associated with gay people.  Now me (as Isiah) keeping hearing other people (like the other players) talking and saying my friend is gay (oh I know he's gay from when I played in LA, or my buddy who used to play in LA always said he thought something was a little weird with how Magic acted, etc.).  I'd probably tell the people I hear talking that hey my friend is not gay, but the thought could creep into the back of my mind (hey even in 2009 I've known people to come out who I would never have imagined, so you can never know unless someone tells you, you hear rumors thoughts can creep into your head).  So in a private conversation with a mutual friend, I might just vent and look for some assurance.

Personally I could see Isiah hoping the conversation would go like this:

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: I know that's crazy right, people spreading these rumors

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya people talking trash, just hating on Magic now

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya I keep hearing that too, but we both know Magic ain't

I mean I could just see some conversation coming out like that from Isiah's end.  Saying that you're hearing rumors someone is gay, is totally different then somebody accusing somebody of being gay.

If this is Lon, telling Magic what Isiah said to Lon in private, then I mean this is totally how rumors start and friends get divided.  Isiah might have told everyone else no Magic isn't gay, but just talked about the rumors with a mutual friend, and then the friend passed it on and Magic took it the wrong way since he never spoke to Isiah about.  This is how rumors start.

Just saying, how I interpret the script above, that is not bad.  Maybe many other instances I don't know about, but that one instance doesn't seem bad.

Now all the other accusations...

[BBS]

Isiah Thomas isn't worth even having a forum on
Pitino realm
(see how much I think of him)

HERE HERE. 

[nickagneta]

I'm definitely getting the book on my next trip to the bookstore. The 1985 All-Star thing never did make any sense to me since Magic wasn't playing in the East and couldn't pass MJ the ball. I had heard this rumor a few times before and always shook my head in misunderstanding as to Magic's involvement.

Part I think is awful is Isiah's comments with Lon Rosen:

The book's main source for this allegation is Magic's longtime agent, Lon Rosen, who says Thomas told him in 1991, "I keep hearing Magic is gay.''

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

On Wednesday, Thomas denied that conversation. "I don't know Lon like that,'' he said, adding that he reached out to Johnson at the time. "I remember calling Magic and saying [of the allegations that he was rumor-mongering], 'You know that's some bulls---.' ''

Now having been old enough to remember Magic's revealing of his illness, there were a ton of Magic being gay rumors. And, there was a fairly large brouhaha over him playing in that All-Star game and unnamed players saying they were afraid to play with and against Magic for fear of him getting cut and having his blood hit them somewhere where they could be infected, but names never came out.

So I wouldn't put anything past Isiah who, as much as he proclaims being above prejudice, has been caught being a sexual harasser in the workplace and did say some unflattering things about Larry's whiteness once, so I guess I am more apt to believe Magic and Rosen.

All I know about the Isiah saying Magic is gay is what I read in the quote above.  Personally I don't view that as Isiah saying Magic is gay.

I picture me and a very good friend who I work with but lives across the country and that I only see a few times a year.  One friend gets a disease that at the time is largely associated with gay people.  Now me (as Isiah) keeping hearing other people (like the other players) talking and saying my friend is gay (oh I know he's gay from when I played in LA, or my buddy who used to play in LA always said he thought something was a little weird with how Magic acted, etc.).  I'd probably tell the people I hear talking that hey my friend is not gay, but the thought could creep into the back of my mind (hey even in 2009 I've known people to come out who I would never have imagined, so you can never know unless someone tells you, you hear rumors thoughts can creep into your head).  So in a private conversation with a mutual friend, I might just vent and look for some assurance.

Personally I could see Isiah hoping the conversation would go like this:

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: I know that's crazy right, people spreading these rumors

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya people talking trash, just hating on Magic now

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya I keep hearing that too, but we both know Magic ain't

I mean I could just see some conversation coming out like that from Isiah's end.  Saying that you're hearing rumors someone is gay, is totally different then somebody accusing somebody of being gay.

If this is Lon, telling Magic what Isiah said to Lon in private, then I mean this is totally how rumors start and friends get divided.  Isiah might have told everyone else no Magic isn't gay, but just talked about the rumors with a mutual friend, and then the friend passed it on and Magic took it the wrong way since he never spoke to Isiah about.  This is how rumors start.

Just saying, how I interpret the script above, that is not bad.  Maybe many other instances I don't know about, but that one instance doesn't seem bad.

Now all the other accusations...

You seem to be overlooking this part of the quote, which, I think is the part that if I was Isiah's friend, I would be severely miffed about.

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

That last part, between two people who profess to be best friends, says a lot in my opinion.

[fairweatherfan]

You seem to be overlooking this part of the quote, which, I think is the part that if I was Isiah's friend, I would be severely miffed about.

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

That last part, between two people who profess to be best friends, says a lot in my opinion.

True, but in 1991 AIDS was still largely seen as just a "gay disease" and Magic was by all accounts very promiscuous when he played.  Isiah almost certainly knew this, and that plus the diagnosis must've made him wonder if Magic was ever experimenting with men - he wouldn't be the first LA celebrity to do so.  I give him a partial pass on that one, though I absolutely see how that would tick Magic off.

[the_Bird]

Isiah's p---ed off?  GOOD.

Even back in 1991, you had to be a closed-minded idiot to think that HIV/AIDS was just a "gay disease."

[KCattheStripe]

You seem to be overlooking this part of the quote, which, I think is the part that if I was Isiah's friend, I would be severely miffed about.

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

That last part, between two people who profess to be best friends, says a lot in my opinion.

True, but in 1991 AIDS was still largely seen as just a "gay disease" and Magic was by all accounts very promiscuous when he played.  Isiah almost certainly knew this, and that plus the diagnosis must've made him wonder if Magic was ever experimenting with men - he wouldn't be the first LA celebrity to do so.  I give him a partial pass on that one, though I absolutely see how that would tick Magic off.

It seems weird though, that because Isiah's brother got it through drug use, that Isiah was only asking about Magic's sexuality and not his drug use.

[bdm860]

I'm definitely getting the book on my next trip to the bookstore. The 1985 All-Star thing never did make any sense to me since Magic wasn't playing in the East and couldn't pass MJ the ball. I had heard this rumor a few times before and always shook my head in misunderstanding as to Magic's involvement.

Part I think is awful is Isiah's comments with Lon Rosen:

The book's main source for this allegation is Magic's longtime agent, Lon Rosen, who says Thomas told him in 1991, "I keep hearing Magic is gay.''

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

On Wednesday, Thomas denied that conversation. "I don't know Lon like that,'' he said, adding that he reached out to Johnson at the time. "I remember calling Magic and saying [of the allegations that he was rumor-mongering], 'You know that's some bulls---.' ''

Now having been old enough to remember Magic's revealing of his illness, there were a ton of Magic being gay rumors. And, there was a fairly large brouhaha over him playing in that All-Star game and unnamed players saying they were afraid to play with and against Magic for fear of him getting cut and having his blood hit them somewhere where they could be infected, but names never came out.

So I wouldn't put anything past Isiah who, as much as he proclaims being above prejudice, has been caught being a sexual harasser in the workplace and did say some unflattering things about Larry's whiteness once, so I guess I am more apt to believe Magic and Rosen.

All I know about the Isiah saying Magic is gay is what I read in the quote above.  Personally I don't view that as Isiah saying Magic is gay.

I picture me and a very good friend who I work with but lives across the country and that I only see a few times a year.  One friend gets a disease that at the time is largely associated with gay people.  Now me (as Isiah) keeping hearing other people (like the other players) talking and saying my friend is gay (oh I know he's gay from when I played in LA, or my buddy who used to play in LA always said he thought something was a little weird with how Magic acted, etc.).  I'd probably tell the people I hear talking that hey my friend is not gay, but the thought could creep into the back of my mind (hey even in 2009 I've known people to come out who I would never have imagined, so you can never know unless someone tells you, you hear rumors thoughts can creep into your head).  So in a private conversation with a mutual friend, I might just vent and look for some assurance.

Personally I could see Isiah hoping the conversation would go like this:

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: I know that's crazy right, people spreading these rumors

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya people talking trash, just hating on Magic now

or maybe

Isiah: Man I keep hearing all these rumors that Magic is gay
Lon: Ya I keep hearing that too, but we both know Magic ain't

I mean I could just see some conversation coming out like that from Isiah's end.  Saying that you're hearing rumors someone is gay, is totally different then somebody accusing somebody of being gay.

If this is Lon, telling Magic what Isiah said to Lon in private, then I mean this is totally how rumors start and friends get divided.  Isiah might have told everyone else no Magic isn't gay, but just talked about the rumors with a mutual friend, and then the friend passed it on and Magic took it the wrong way since he never spoke to Isiah about.  This is how rumors start.

Just saying, how I interpret the script above, that is not bad.  Maybe many other instances I don't know about, but that one instance doesn't seem bad.

Now all the other accusations...

You seem to be overlooking this part of the quote, which, I think is the part that if I was Isiah's friend, I would be severely miffed about.

"C'mon, Isiah, you know Earvin better than anyone,'' Rosen replies.

"I know,'' Thomas answers, "but I don't know what he's doing when he's out there in L.A.''

That last part, between two people who profess to be best friends, says a lot in my opinion.

But I'm not ignoring that part of the quote (I just thought my analysis was long enough all ready lol).  I don't view that part as changing anything.  That's a reasonable reply I think, "I only see the guy a few times a year, I don't think he's gay, but I don't know what he's doing the rest of the time."  Could be said in a venting way, if your friend gets a major disease, you can be frustrated, upset, unsure, looking to vent, etc.

Again, I could just see that little bit of conversation being innocent from Isiah.  But of course I think the tone of the conversation and the tone of the replies would say alot too, and that's something we can't pick up from a little quote like that.

I could see it being Isiah saying it in an innocent way just relaying rumors he's hearing about a friend.

But I could also see it as a backhanded way to dig deeper, trying to act innocent but really have a "I think Magic is gay" intentions.  When I first read it, I took it the first way though.