Author Topic: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?  (Read 8701 times)

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Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2009, 09:00:48 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Ok. So what will be Lebron's excuse this year? Poor Lebron with his French name and center tandem of Ilgauskas, Shaq, and Varejao, and that one time all star Mo Williams to pass it to him.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2009, 11:36:21 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Ok. So what will be Lebron's excuse this year? Poor Lebron with his French name and center tandem of Ilgauskas, Shaq, and Varejao, and that one time all star Mo Williams to pass it to him.

What do you mean Lebron's excuse?

If the Celtics or Lakers have the better team, that's not Lebron's fault LOL!!

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2009, 12:27:10 AM »

Offline moiso

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Its not really even close.  And if Kobe and Lebron switched teams, the Lakers would be amazing, while Cleveland would be a middle of the pack playoff team.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2009, 04:29:47 AM »

Offline Bahku

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Kobe, without a doubt ... the Lakers were a much better supporting cast, (and it causes me physical pain to say that).
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Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2009, 09:00:32 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

You don't?  I think you're probably the only one, then.

Plus, of course, Kobe had Fisher and Ariza, as well.  I know which group I'd take if I was starting a team (at least after I washed the Lakers stink off of them.)
Hysterical. 

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2009, 09:14:20 AM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I think you guys are forgetting one thing as far as supporting cast:

Phil Jackson is an exponentially better playoff coach than Mike Brown.  If you were to trade supporting casts (but not coaches) then the Cavs would have "probably" won the championship.  Had they traded coaches too then it would have been no competition.. the Cavs 100%. 

On a somewhat related note:  Whenever the Celtics are playing the Lakers I hope that Kobe gets into a "me first" attitude and distrusts his teamates.  It's when he tries to do everything that gives the Celtics the edge.  Conversley I like it when Lebron defers and trusts his teammates... it's usually to the advantage of the opposing team.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2009, 12:53:12 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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The cavs were counting on Wally Sczerbiak, Ben Wallace and Danile Gibson for meaningful contributions off the bench in the playoffs last year.  I am pretty sure that shows you what Lebron was trying to work with.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2009, 02:37:39 PM »

Offline jasail

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Big Z was a two time all star.  Gasol is a top 5 PF.

imo i'd take odom and ariza over anyone on the Cav's time minus LBJ as well. odom is a very good 6th body and he creates match up probelms, can pass and can spread the floor.  big ben and side show do neither.  ariza is long, can guard multiple positions and spreads the floor, delonte (though i love him) is a tweener who plays hard but still struggles to guard larger guards. 

if you were to have a draft between these supporting casts i think it would go something like this:
1) gasol
2) odom
3) ariza
4) side show
5&6) mo/delonte





Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2009, 03:06:05 PM »

Offline j_fran

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I think the main thing is that both supporting casts are tailored to the respective individual.  Lebron has a group of spot-up shooters who float around the perimeter and wait for him to go one-on-one to create a jump shot opportunity.  Kobe has a group of players that compliment his skills in the triangle offensive.  Neither player would be as successful on the other team.  Kobe at his age doesn't drive the lane enough to create the open looks Lebron does and Lebron would be lost with the sophistication of the triangle and his poor jump-shooting would be a problem.

Lebron probably passed Kobe as an individual force last year, but I still think Kobe's skill set, which includes mental attributes, is more appropriate for a championship team.  For all his brilliance as a one-on-one player, Lebron's style of going one-on-five against the best teams is always going to have a hard time beating a squad that can match Cleveland for talent and runs a balanced team offensive, like the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and possibly the Spurs. 
   

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2009, 03:20:20 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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I think the main thing is that both supporting casts are tailored to the respective individual.  Lebron has a group of spot-up shooters who float around the perimeter and wait for him to go one-on-one to create a jump shot opportunity.  Kobe has a group of players that compliment his skills in the triangle offensive.  Neither player would be as successful on the other team.  Kobe at his age doesn't drive the lane enough to create the open looks Lebron does and Lebron would be lost with the sophistication of the triangle and his poor jump-shooting would be a problem.

Lebron probably passed Kobe as an individual force last year, but I still think Kobe's skill set, which includes mental attributes, is more appropriate for a championship team.  For all his brilliance as a one-on-one player, Lebron's style of going one-on-five against the best teams is always going to have a hard time beating a squad that can match Cleveland for talent and runs a balanced team offensive, like the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and possibly the Spurs. 
   

Nice post.
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Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2009, 04:24:57 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I don't put too much stock into "coaching".

As long as the coach gets his players to "play hard", more often than not, talent and execution by the players, determines the outcomes of the game.

So, if Mike Brown was coaching the Lakers, they win the title against the Magic.

If Jackson was coaching the Cavs, they don't win the title cause the Cavs' team was not championship material. The Cavs' were a "regular season" team, not a championship team.

Great players make coaches "look smart".

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2009, 04:27:17 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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I think the main thing is that both supporting casts are tailored to the respective individual.  Lebron has a group of spot-up shooters who float around the perimeter and wait for him to go one-on-one to create a jump shot opportunity.  Kobe has a group of players that compliment his skills in the triangle offensive.  Neither player would be as successful on the other team.  Kobe at his age doesn't drive the lane enough to create the open looks Lebron does and Lebron would be lost with the sophistication of the triangle and his poor jump-shooting would be a problem.

Lebron probably passed Kobe as an individual force last year, but I still think Kobe's skill set, which includes mental attributes, is more appropriate for a championship team.  For all his brilliance as a one-on-one player, Lebron's style of going one-on-five against the best teams is always going to have a hard time beating a squad that can match Cleveland for talent and runs a balanced team offensive, like the Lakers, Celtics, Magic, and possibly the Spurs. 
   

Good post.  Couple comments, Lebron's jump shot was actually much, much better last year.  Also, his 1-on-5 drives were mor a product of necessity than what Lebron likes to do.  Watch this year how often he dishes to Shaq.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #27 on: October 15, 2009, 05:52:15 PM »

Offline Spilling Green Dye

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I don't put too much stock into "coaching".

As long as the coach gets his players to "play hard", more often than not, talent and execution by the players, determines the outcomes of the game.

So, if Mike Brown was coaching the Lakers, they win the title against the Magic.

If Jackson was coaching the Cavs, they don't win the title cause the Cavs' team was not championship material. The Cavs' were a "regular season" team, not a championship team.

Great players make coaches "look smart".

I'm not entirely sold on that.  Granted the chasm between the Cavs and Lakers (roster wise) was pretty big that it'd be impossible for 1 coach to overcome... but Mike Brown makes a lot of substitution and scheming mistakes.  I don't consider him a good playoff coach and it shows.

Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #28 on: October 15, 2009, 07:04:11 PM »

Offline LB3533

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I don't put too much stock into "coaching".

As long as the coach gets his players to "play hard", more often than not, talent and execution by the players, determines the outcomes of the game.

So, if Mike Brown was coaching the Lakers, they win the title against the Magic.

If Jackson was coaching the Cavs, they don't win the title cause the Cavs' team was not championship material. The Cavs' were a "regular season" team, not a championship team.

Great players make coaches "look smart".

I'm not entirely sold on that.  Granted the chasm between the Cavs and Lakers (roster wise) was pretty big that it'd be impossible for 1 coach to overcome... but Mike Brown makes a lot of substitution and scheming mistakes.  I don't consider him a good playoff coach and it shows.

Brown isn't a great nuances or misc. coach, just like Doc, but Brown is pretty darn good defensive coach (which Doc is not).

Offensively, Cavs pretty much live and die by Lebron's playmaking and the rest of the Cavs' role players to hit open 3's or open J's.

The first 2 rounds in last year's playoffs, Cavs went 8-0 and had a +15 and +18 points per game margin. Their opponents shot .409 in the 1st round and .385 in the 2nd round.

Oh, and Lebron played like a monster throughout the whole playoffs, but his teammates were pretty darn good offensively in the 1st 2 rounds.

ECF happens and the Cavs' offense is Lebron doing it on his own and hurting his own team, because his mates failed to hit open shots and also failed to defend the Magic.


Re: Who had a better supporting cast last year, Kobe or Lebron?
« Reply #29 on: October 15, 2009, 11:10:13 PM »

Offline TradeProposalDude

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Kobe's was much better, and I hate LeBron. During the regular season, the gap was probably closer. But LeBron's supporting cast quit on him in the playoffs. Allow me to re-iterate once again that I am NOT a LeBron fan by any stretch of the imagination. While he tends to hog the ball leading to disrupted team play, notably on offense, Mo Williams suddenly couldn't make shots and neither could Big Z, two of their more important and dependable players. Kobe never had any such problem with his teammates, if memory serves me correct. It wasn't that long ago.