next »

[Roy Hobbs]

Split from another thread:

I have a hard time blaming Lebron for the Cavs failures.  Who has his best teammate been?  Mo Williams?  And yet, in his career, he's carried a poor team to the Finals, and won 66 games with another team that wasn't anything special.  There's no doubt in my mind that Lebron will win multiple championships in his career, once he's surrounded by legitimate teammates.

He's got a good cast around him this year.  I think the Celts are better, but Lebron is a concern.

[eja117]

So what was the excuse this year? And the year before last year? And the one before that? And what will it be this year?

I have a hard time blaming Lebron for the Cavs failures.  Who has his best teammate been?  Mo Williams?  And yet, in his career, he's carried a poor team to the Finals, and won 66 games with another team that wasn't anything special.  There's no doubt in my mind that Lebron will win multiple championships in his career, once he's surrounded by legitimate teammates.

He's got a good cast around him this year.  I think the Celts are better, but Lebron is a concern.

So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

[Roy Hobbs]

So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

You don't?  I think you're probably the only one, then.

Plus, of course, Kobe had Fisher and Ariza, as well.  I know which group I'd take if I was starting a team (at least after I washed the Lakers stink off of them.)

[Steve Weinman]

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

I don't think that's fair.  That series wouldn't have gone seven games without Lebron.  He outscored and out-assisted Paul in all seven games, and out-rebounded him in five of them.

Neither one of them shot particularly well in that series, but Lebron's other contributions trumped Pierce.   I have a hard time saying Paul outplayed LBJ in that series.

Waaaaitttt a second.

Game 2 he goes for 21 and 6 assists (the most by a Cav which kept happening the whole series) while PP goes for 19 to lead the Celts and the Cavs lose by 16. That's not a good stat line for Lebron, it's a bad one. When you dominate the ball and your team loses it doesn't mean you outplayed anyone.

In game 5 Lebron scored 35 and led his team with 5 assists (while PP led the Celts with 29) and his team lost by 7.

Game 7 he goes for 45 points and leads in assists again while PP goes for 41 and his team loses by 5. Another bad stat line. Maybe a little defense might be a good idea Brony? Maybe hold your man under his average?

How is it good if you get in a shootout with another guy and win the shootout while losing the game?

If you outproduce the guy you're guarding in pretty much every area, but you lose because the other guy has better teammates, it doesn't me that you individually were outplayed.

So what was the excuse this year? And the year before last year? And the one before that? And what will it be this year?

I have a hard time blaming Lebron for the Cavs failures.  Who has his best teammate been?  Mo Williams?  And yet, in his career, he's carried a poor team to the Finals, and won 66 games with another team that wasn't anything special.  There's no doubt in my mind that Lebron will win multiple championships in his career, once he's surrounded by legitimate teammates.

He's got a good cast around him this year.  I think the Celts are better, but Lebron is a concern.

So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

Yes, and I'm not sure it's particularly close.

And see also Roy's comments re: Ariza.

-sw

[eja117]

So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

You don't?  I think you're probably the only one, then.

Plus, of course, Kobe had Fisher and Ariza, as well.  I know which group I'd take if I was starting a team (at least after I washed the Lakers stink off of them.)

Wait a second. Odom has never been an all-star and Gasol has only been one twice, whereas Mo Williams was this year and Illgauskas is a two timer.  bynum averaged 14 and 8 in 50 whole games played, but only 6.3 and 3.7 in the playoffs. Varejao played better than that in the playoffs. Delonte scored twice as much in the playoffs as Ariza.

 What next? Luke Walton is a lot better than Daniel Gibson?

Is this to say that if Lebron and Kobe get traded straight up Cleveland gets worse and LA gets better? 

[Roy Hobbs]

So Lamar Odom, Pau gasol, and Andrew bynum is somehow a lot better than Ilgauskas, Mo Williams, Delonte, and varejo?

I don't know about that

You don't?  I think you're probably the only one, then.

Plus, of course, Kobe had Fisher and Ariza, as well.  I know which group I'd take if I was starting a team (at least after I washed the Lakers stink off of them.)

Wait a second. Odom has never been an all-star and Gasol has only been one twice, whereas Mo Williams was this year and Illgauskas is a two timer.  bynum averaged 14 and 8 in 50 whole games played, but only 6.3 and 3.7 in the playoffs. Varejao played better than that in the playoffs. Delonte scored twice as much in the playoffs as Ariza.

 What next? Luke Walton is a lot better than Daniel Gibson?

Is this to say that if Lebron and Kobe get traded straight up Cleveland gets worse and LA gets better? 

Who cares about all-star berths?  Pau Gasol is much, much better than Ilgauskas, and showed it in the playoffs.  Odom averaged nearly a double-double in the playoffs, and has averaged 15/9 over his career. 

Ariza is much better than Delonte.  Contrary to your statement, Ariza only averaged 2.5 points less than Delonte, and was a better shooter and defender.

And yes, if Kobe and Cleveland swapped places, Cleveland would be worse and L.A. would be better.  There's not much doubt in my mind of that.

[lon3lytoaster]

If LeBron had Pau and the Lakers had Varejao or Ilguskas last year, the Cavs are winning the championship. At least they would of had a better chance against Orlando with Gasol.

Lamar Odom is a real nice player, too. He makes a lot of stupid mistakes and (At least from the times i've seen him) takes some bad shots but If I was running a team and he was willing to play off the bench most nights, I'd welcome him with open arms.

Fisher sucks, but so does Mo Williams. Mo got a bogus all-star nod thanks to the NBA's "king" but he has never impressed me, I'd much rather have Fisher and Gasol or Bynum than Mo and anyone else the Cavs have except LeBron.

[Who]

Kobe had the better supporting cast. Give LeBron Pau Gasol and the Cavs are the one's holding the Championship.

That said, LeBron's Cavs did underachieve and his play was part of that (his attempts to take over the series ostracized his teammates) ... although Mike Brown deserves more criticism than him.

[ToppersBsktball10]

Kobe

[Donoghus]

Kobe, hands down.

Not much of an argument in my book, either.

[liam]

Kobe, hands down.

Not much of an argument in my book, either.

Yeah, nothing to really compare. I don't think anyone from that Cavs ( Except LB) team even starts on the Lakers.

[jambr380]

I am really not sure the thread title is correct. It should probably be something like, 'how much better was Kobe's supporting cast last year compared to Lebron's?'

Anyone arguing for Lebron's team here is really just arguing for argument's sake. The Lakers would have made the playoffs last year without Kobe. The Cavs would have been fighting for last place in the East.

[Fafnir]

Pau Gasol is a top 4 PF in this league now. So that instantly makes Kobe's supporting cast better.

[ManUp]

Kobe.

And Lebron is the better NBA player.

[wdleehi]

Kobe


Everyone likes to forget that Gasol lead the Griz to a 50 win season. 


Who on the Cavs (at their current playing level)outside of Lebron could do that in the NBA?