Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.

[GKC]

This is an absolutely bad idea.

First off, you have to realize that breaks, and not total minutes, are what's important throughout the course of a game.

A player playing 36 minutes in a row, will be much more tired than a player playing 36 minutes with 3 4 minute breaks.

It also removes the defense that Paul Brings, having him play with certain players and matchups, as well as his leadership and rhythm.

[Steve Weinman]

The reason he's not thought of as a *Lebron* is because he's not as good as Lebron.

Perhaps it's that LeBron was crowned... best combination of Magic's passing and Jordan's finishing at the rim, on the day of his election. Let's face it, he was given a franchise promise which was suppose to be *built around him*, from the get-go.

Pierce, on the other foot, was given Pitino, a slophouse of malcontents, and a near death experience, in contrast, during his formative years in the league. And when Shaq named him "the Truth", he was being guided by the Jim O'Brien 3 point party marathoners but was surprisingly, beating up everyone else in the league. This is clearly one of the greatest players with the worst NBA upbringing of any star.

It has nothing to do with upbringing.  Lebron is simply the better player.  All I have to do is watch the guy play to realize he's one of the special talents to come into this game. 

Pierce is heckuva player but he's not on the same level as Lebron.  I'm a diehard Celtics (and Pierce) fan and even I realize this.

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

Right, because if Cleveland only had the chance to swap Pierce for LeBron in that series they would have...

...what would they have done exactly?

I'd be shocked if it involved doing any more than the '08 Cavs did - or anything close really.  And I love the Captain.

But that comparison conveniently forgets that this is a 5-on-5 game rather than a 1-on-1 type of deal.

-sw

[crownsy]

The reason he's not thought of as a *Lebron* is because he's not as good as Lebron.

Perhaps it's that LeBron was crowned... best combination of Magic's passing and Jordan's finishing at the rim, on the day of his election. Let's face it, he was given a franchise promise which was suppose to be *built around him*, from the get-go.

Pierce, on the other foot, was given Pitino, a slophouse of malcontents, and a near death experience, in contrast, during his formative years in the league. And when Shaq named him "the Truth", he was being guided by the Jim O'Brien 3 point party marathoners but was surprisingly, beating up everyone else in the league. This is clearly one of the greatest players with the worst NBA upbringing of any star.

That's fine and all, and i'm the biggest paul fan around, but the fact remains that Lebron is a better all around player than he is.

[Tai]

I giggled at the topic post.

I laughed at the comparison of Lebron and Pierce.

I think the wait for the pre-season and ultimately the regular season has taken it's tolls on some people here. 

[TitleMaster]

First off, you have to realize that breaks, and not total minutes, are what's important throughout the course of a game.

A player playing 36 minutes in a row, will be much more tired than a player playing 36 minutes with 3 4 minute breaks.

Ok, the idea here was this...

Q1: 3-4 mins
Q2: 3-4 mins
Q3: 4-5 mins
Q4: 12 mins
OT: the full 5 mins per OT

So for a normal game, that's 22 to 25 minutes per game. So in effect, it includes breaks, up until Q4 where there are no breaks. What this does is make the following day, a near full recovery, see stem cells finding their target tissues for repair/regeneration. At 36-40 mins, the recovery time increases and for Pierce, that means less bounce, in followup contests. My regimen almost guarantees a consistent Mr Fourth Quarter.

And I will compromise, Daniels can start in place of 'Sheed at the 3.

[Roy Hobbs]

First off, you have to realize that breaks, and not total minutes, are what's important throughout the course of a game.

A player playing 36 minutes in a row, will be much more tired than a player playing 36 minutes with 3 4 minute breaks.

Ok, the idea here was this...

Q1: 3-4 mins
Q2: 3-4 mins
Q3: 4-5 mins
Q4: 12 mins
OT: the full 5 mins per OT

So for a normal game, that's 22 to 25 minutes per game. So in effect, it includes breaks, up until Q4 where there are no breaks. What this does is make the following day, a near full recovery, see stem cells finding their target tissues for repair/regeneration. At 36-40 mins, the recovery time increases and for Pierce, that means less bounce, in followup contests. My regimen almost guarantees a consistent Mr Fourth Quarter.

And I will compromise, Daniels can start in place of 'Sheed at the 3.

What about Doc's comment that players need a certain amount of playing time to get into a rhythm?  25 minutes for Pierce wouldn't really work for anyone, I think.

[Eja117]

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

I don't think that's fair.  That series wouldn't have gone seven games without Lebron.  He outscored and out-assisted Paul in all seven games, and out-rebounded him in five of them.

Neither one of them shot particularly well in that series, but Lebron's other contributions trumped Pierce.   I have a hard time saying Paul outplayed LBJ in that series.

Waaaaitttt a second.

Game 2 he goes for 21 and 6 assists (the most by a Cav which kept happening the whole series) while PP goes for 19 to lead the Celts and the Cavs lose by 16. That's not a good stat line for Lebron, it's a bad one. When you dominate the ball and your team loses it doesn't mean you outplayed anyone.

In game 5 Lebron scored 35 and led his team with 5 assists (while PP led the Celts with 29) and his team lost by 7.

Game 7 he goes for 45 points and leads in assists again while PP goes for 41 and his team loses by 5. Another bad stat line. Maybe a little defense might be a good idea Brony? Maybe hold your man under his average?

How is it good if you get in a shootout with another guy and win the shootout while losing the game?

[Roy Hobbs]

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

I don't think that's fair.  That series wouldn't have gone seven games without Lebron.  He outscored and out-assisted Paul in all seven games, and out-rebounded him in five of them.

Neither one of them shot particularly well in that series, but Lebron's other contributions trumped Pierce.   I have a hard time saying Paul outplayed LBJ in that series.

Waaaaitttt a second.

Game 2 he goes for 21 and 6 assists (the most by a Cav which kept happening the whole series) while PP goes for 19 to lead the Celts and the Cavs lose by 16. That's not a good stat line for Lebron, it's a bad one. When you dominate the ball and your team loses it doesn't mean you outplayed anyone.

In game 5 Lebron scored 35 and led his team with 5 assists (while PP led the Celts with 29) and his team lost by 7.

Game 7 he goes for 45 points and leads in assists again while PP goes for 41 and his team loses by 5. Another bad stat line. Maybe a little defense might be a good idea Brony? Maybe hold your man under his average?

How is it good if you get in a shootout with another guy and win the shootout while losing the game?

If you outproduce the guy you're guarding in pretty much every area, but you lose because the other guy has better teammates, it doesn't me that you individually were outplayed.

[Eja117]

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

I don't think that's fair.  That series wouldn't have gone seven games without Lebron.  He outscored and out-assisted Paul in all seven games, and out-rebounded him in five of them.

Neither one of them shot particularly well in that series, but Lebron's other contributions trumped Pierce.   I have a hard time saying Paul outplayed LBJ in that series.

Waaaaitttt a second.

Game 2 he goes for 21 and 6 assists (the most by a Cav which kept happening the whole series) while PP goes for 19 to lead the Celts and the Cavs lose by 16. That's not a good stat line for Lebron, it's a bad one. When you dominate the ball and your team loses it doesn't mean you outplayed anyone.

In game 5 Lebron scored 35 and led his team with 5 assists (while PP led the Celts with 29) and his team lost by 7.

Game 7 he goes for 45 points and leads in assists again while PP goes for 41 and his team loses by 5. Another bad stat line. Maybe a little defense might be a good idea Brony? Maybe hold your man under his average?

How is it good if you get in a shootout with another guy and win the shootout while losing the game?

If you outproduce the guy you're guarding in pretty much every area, but you lose because the other guy has better teammates, it doesn't me that you individually were outplayed.

So what was the excuse this year? And the year before last year? And the one before that? And what will it be this year?

[TitleMaster]

I have a hard time blaming Lebron for the Cavs failures.  Who has his best teammate been?  Mo Williams?

Well, when Pierce was LeBron's age, see '02-'04, he led a team of three pt bombers (and a 'Toine, who thought that he was Horry from downtown) and beat the former ECF, the Sixers. The following year, the same crew (minus Rogers and KA), beat a superior Pacer's squad. The way I see it, Pierce had an even more subpar squad than LeBron and did, practically just as well, and even against the championship Lakers, in several contests during the regular season. Of course, take away the 3 pt line, Byron Scott/Jason Kidd's team defense moves, and they lose in 6 w/o a real team (inside-out game), but in a sense, the Cavs folded just as well when push came to shove.

[CelticG1]

I have a hard time blaming Lebron for the Cavs failures.  Who has his best teammate been?  Mo Williams?

Well, when Pierce was LeBron's age, see '02-'04, he led a team of three pt bombers (and a 'Toine, who thought that he was Horry from downtown) and beat the former ECF, the Sixers. The following year, the same crew (minus Rogers and KA), beat a superior Pacer's squad. The way I see it, Pierce had an even more subpar squad than LeBron and did, practically just as well, and even against the championship Lakers, in several contests during the regular season. Of course, take away the 3 pt line, Byron Scott/Jason Kidd's team defense moves, and they lose in 6 w/o a real team (inside-out game), but in a sense, the Cavs folded just as well when push came to shove.

I hate to admit it but I think it is clear that Lebron is better than Paul. But I am kind of sick of the argument that Lebron isn't surrounded by any teammates. As stated above Paul Pierce has had some very subpar teams and took many of them into the playoffs without much help at all. If Lebron loses this year I feel like people will still say he doesn't have a cast and blah blah. If he needs stars like KG and Ray Allen to help him win a championship what makes him so special?

[TitleMaster]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/celtics/index.php/2009/10/13/nba-gms-favor-lakers-over-celtics-this-season/

Paul Pierce only ranked in one category, but it was a big one. Pierce finished second (6.9 percent) to only Bryant (89.7 percent) as the player GM’s want taking the shot with the game on the line.

Ok, the above category is the crux of my theme. Paul Pierce cannot have tired legs in the fourth quarter. My game plan insures a 100% Pierce with the game on the line.

[Rondo2287]

But people already recognize he is good taking the last shot without your plan.  There is no way that you can prove that your plan would make him better.  Devil we know better than the Devil we dont.

[Fafnir]

http://www.bostonherald.com/blogs/sports/celtics/index.php/2009/10/13/nba-gms-favor-lakers-over-celtics-this-season/

Paul Pierce only ranked in one category, but it was a big one. Pierce finished second (6.9 percent) to only Bryant (89.7 percent) as the player GM’s want taking the shot with the game on the line.

Ok, the above category is the crux of my theme. Paul Pierce cannot have tired legs in the fourth quarter. My game plan insures a 100% Pierce with the game on the line.

Playing a full 12 minutes of NBA game uninterrupted seems to be a good way to make sure he's gassed to me.

Your plan is still silly.

[TitleMaster]

Playing a full 12 minutes of NBA game uninterrupted seems to be a good way to make sure he's gassed to me.

Yes, he's supposedly gassed for the night, my guess is that it would at the circa 15 min zone, not earlier, but then... the game's over and he can go home and sleep. All and all, a 12 min *burn* is considered a great workout, even for someone in their forties. That's essentially a cross product of an anaerobic/aerobic workout but by keeping it contained, it allows for fast recovery. The other three quarters of sub-ing will be relatively easy for him and won't really add to the stressing of the muscles, joints, and ligaments.