Author Topic: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.  (Read 16220 times)

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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2009, 04:11:39 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 04:23:39 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2009, 04:41:31 PM »

Offline RAcker

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This thread just set a new standard...I won't specify which standard that is exactly.

Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2009, 07:10:38 PM »

Offline Bahku

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While I respect the impetus behind this, (I don't think it was motivated by anti-Pierce sentiment, though I'm not sure), the idea of taking the emotional, physical and spiritual CORE of this team, the Captain, (unquestionably one of the top 10 players in the NBA - for me, one of the top 5), and making him a bench-warmer, would not only undermine everything this team is ABOUT, but would seriously take the proverbial "air" out of this team and put an end to Ubuntu and every chance we have at a post-season. (This was even more of a shock than the endless "Bring Back 'Toine" threads!).
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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2009, 09:03:11 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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While I respect the impetus behind this, (I don't think it was motivated by anti-Pierce sentiment, though I'm not sure), the idea of taking the emotional, physical and spiritual CORE of this team, the Captain, (unquestionably one of the top 10 players in the NBA - for me, one of the top 5), and making him a bench-warmer, would not only undermine everything this team is ABOUT, but would seriously take the proverbial "air" out of this team and put an end to Ubuntu and every chance we have at a post-season. (This was even more of a shock than the endless "Bring Back 'Toine" threads!).

From 1980 up until 1984, where the Celts had won two titles, McHale was not starting alongside Bird and Parish but yet, they're still the big three. Had Maxwell stayed resiliently healthy, throughout the '85 season, McHale might never have been a starter and always the sixth man extraordinaire ala John Havlicek (during the Russell era) or Silas during the mid-70s. Now, is anyone taking anything away from McHale, by not having him start until '85?

Now let's get back to Paul. Pierce is the one player, of the big four (now five, including 'Sheed and an improved Rondo), who still has the *take over the fourth* mojo left in him. What's missing, however, is the immortality gene where Paul effectively gets back his stem cell count a/o human growth hormone secretion of his mid-20s. I'm simply looking at the biochemistry and human physiology of the situation. Pierce can still have those 2002-2004 fourth quarters but in order to do so, consistently, not those rare games, he needs to gently glide into the game, not play all four quarters like an ordinary starter. That's what'll make him play, not like a top ten NBA player, but a top 1-3 one! And that, I guarantee!

Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #37 on: October 06, 2009, 09:19:59 PM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #38 on: October 06, 2009, 09:35:36 PM »

Offline Bahku

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While I respect the impetus behind this, (I don't think it was motivated by anti-Pierce sentiment, though I'm not sure), the idea of taking the emotional, physical and spiritual CORE of this team, the Captain, (unquestionably one of the top 10 players in the NBA - for me, one of the top 5), and making him a bench-warmer, would not only undermine everything this team is ABOUT, but would seriously take the proverbial "air" out of this team and put an end to Ubuntu and every chance we have at a post-season. (This was even more of a shock than the endless "Bring Back 'Toine" threads!).

From 1980 up until 1984, where the Celts had won two titles, McHale was not starting alongside Bird and Parish but yet, they're still the big three. Had Maxwell stayed resiliently healthy, throughout the '85 season, McHale might never have been a starter and always the sixth man extraordinaire ala John Havlicek (during the Russell era) or Silas during the mid-70s. Now, is anyone taking anything away from McHale, by not having him start until '85?

Now let's get back to Paul. Pierce is the one player, of the big four (now five, including 'Sheed and an improved Rondo), who still has the *take over the fourth* mojo left in him. What's missing, however, is the immortality gene where Paul effectively gets back his stem cell count a/o human growth hormone secretion of his mid-20s. I'm simply looking at the biochemistry and human physiology of the situation. Pierce can still have those 2002-2004 fourth quarters but in order to do so, consistently, not those rare games, he needs to gently glide into the game, not play all four quarters like an ordinary starter. That's what'll make him play, not like a top ten NBA player, but a top 1-3 one! And that, I guarantee!

Again, while I can certainly see the motivation for the idea and your rationale behind it, (I'll TP you for the thoughtfulness and courage here), the negative results of making this move would just far outweigh the positive. The degenerative effect on Pierce's psyche alone doesn't justify it, let alone the endless repercussions with the adjustments needed to retain the chemistry on the floor with the starting five, the time and experience that the present five has had getting in-sync, the mental and emotional effect on KG especially, (who looks up to the Truth and keys on his leadership), and the rest of the team, who would be completely dumbfounded and shaken by witnessing their coach technically making the admission that he no longer has enough faith in his captain to start him, etc., and on-and-on. It's an interesting thought, but just far too many negatives, and very few positives.
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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2009, 09:40:07 PM »

Offline Eja117

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The reason he's not thought of as a *Lebron* is because he's not as good as Lebron.

Perhaps it's that LeBron was crowned... best combination of Magic's passing and Jordan's finishing at the rim, on the day of his election. Let's face it, he was given a franchise promise which was suppose to be *built around him*, from the get-go.

Pierce, on the other foot, was given Pitino, a slophouse of malcontents, and a near death experience, in contrast, during his formative years in the league. And when Shaq named him "the Truth", he was being guided by the Jim O'Brien 3 point party marathoners but was surprisingly, beating up everyone else in the league. This is clearly one of the greatest players with the worst NBA upbringing of any star.



It has nothing to do with upbringing.  Lebron is simply the better player.  All I have to do is watch the guy play to realize he's one of the special talents to come into this game. 

Pierce is heckuva player but he's not on the same level as Lebron.  I'm a diehard Celtics (and Pierce) fan and even I realize this.

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2009, 09:45:59 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

I don't think that's fair.  That series wouldn't have gone seven games without Lebron.  He outscored and out-assisted Paul in all seven games, and out-rebounded him in five of them.

Neither one of them shot particularly well in that series, but Lebron's other contributions trumped Pierce.   I have a hard time saying Paul outplayed LBJ in that series.

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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2009, 09:56:28 PM »

Offline Bahku

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The reason he's not thought of as a *Lebron* is because he's not as good as Lebron.

Perhaps it's that LeBron was crowned... best combination of Magic's passing and Jordan's finishing at the rim, on the day of his election. Let's face it, he was given a franchise promise which was suppose to be *built around him*, from the get-go.

Pierce, on the other foot, was given Pitino, a slophouse of malcontents, and a near death experience, in contrast, during his formative years in the league. And when Shaq named him "the Truth", he was being guided by the Jim O'Brien 3 point party marathoners but was surprisingly, beating up everyone else in the league. This is clearly one of the greatest players with the worst NBA upbringing of any star.



It has nothing to do with upbringing.  Lebron is simply the better player.  All I have to do is watch the guy play to realize he's one of the special talents to come into this game. 

Pierce is heckuva player but he's not on the same level as Lebron.  I'm a diehard Celtics (and Pierce) fan and even I realize this.

i didn't get the feeling Lebron was a lot better than Pierce when PP was kicking his butt in the 2007 playoffs.

Lebron....the guy is a champion on every level other than college and pro

While it's completely undeniable that LeBron is an amazing athlete and one of the best players in the NBA, no matter how hard other people press the issue, I just can't get on the "LeBron is God" bandwagon ... and I'd much rather have a player like Paul Pierce, whose priority is doing the most he can to help make his team better and function as a more cohesive unit, than someone like LeBron, whose priority is getting the ball in his hands, making sure his team gets the ball in his hands, and whining and behaving like he's in mortal danger every time he gets a scratch on his arm. Paul Pierce is a complete player, a team player of the highest order, and I'll take him any day over a "superstar". LeBron has half the world thinking he's basketball's gift from God ... he certainly doesn't need me as well. (TP to you eja ... love the post!)
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Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #42 on: October 06, 2009, 10:13:30 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I didn't realize that only the fourth quarter scoring counts.

Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #43 on: October 06, 2009, 10:16:30 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Here's a radical idea. How about we play players at positions where they fit best? Sheed at SF is an inexcusably bad idea.

Re: Radical idea, start 'Sheed, make Pierce all Q4.
« Reply #44 on: October 06, 2009, 11:08:26 PM »

Offline TitleMaster

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The only reason why it appeared that LBJ outplayed Pierce in the '08 series was because he was younger and thus, was able to grind it out longer. All and all, the Celts played poorly on the road, those first two rounds and thus, it should never have gone seven, two series in a row.

And that's the whole point of this thread. From my p.o.v, Paul Pierce is as great of a player as either LeBron or Kobe. There is however, one difference, the man simply doesn't have the same re-generative capabilities as earlier. This is pure biomed science here. Therefore, the 2002-03 Pierce will not emerge again, a man who, with the help of a bunch of three pt bombers, beat the likes of a former ECF Champ Sixers or Pacers (of Tingsley/J'O/Miller).

My goal is to showcase that 'Mr Fourth Quarter' again. And the only way to do that is to contain Paul's role in the first half of a the game, as one who holds the fort. And yes, we have the headcount to do that now, our teammates are quite excellent. As Mr Fourth Quarter, Paul can in effect, do what LeBron can do, but for a limited spurt, than all game long.