25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #22

[Roy Hobbs]

now i agree in giving silas one and ainge the other
and then jump into next position
it will be a tough run between Don Nelson, Ray Ray and Toine IMHO

I've got it:

24. Nelson
25. Ray
26. Antoine

[Edgar]

now i agree in giving silas one and ainge the other
and then jump into next position
it will be a tough run between Don Nelson, Ray Ray and Toine IMHO

I've got it:

24. Nelson
25. Ray
26. Antoine

nah hobbsy i will fight my fight for the fattie

[paintitgreen]

If my calculations are right, Ainge and Silas are in a dead heat - each with 8 firsts, 8 seconds and 2 thirds out of a possible 18 votes. It's obvious they're 22 and 23; Casperian, can we skip to 24 on the next vote?

You want them to tie?

I think we should wait for someone else to vote...

I meant it the way Edgar had it - regardless of who wins or if there's a tie, Silas and Ainge are clearly 22 and 23. The dropoff - at least in voting - between these two and everybody else is pretty steep (really, these two are part of a crew of about 10 that was really tight through the voting - KG, Max, Reggie, KC, Ramsey, Macauley, Satch, Tiny, Silas, Ainge), rendering it fairly unnecessary to have poll number 23. The remaining guy between Silas and Ainge will win with about 85% of votes.

[Casperian]

For example Chaney.

A nice thing to know about chaney other than a championship and a single final is that Chaney is the only Boston Celtic member who has played with both Bill Russell (1956–1969) and Larry Bird (1979–1992). ( yes I use to wiki when i dont knoe a thing about a player as part of the learning process)

Nothing´s wrong with wiki to learn about players you don´t know much about, imo. I´ve did the same. It would be wrong to not inform yourself if you don´t know much about a player, although there are certainly better sources than wiki.

Paul Silas
Danny Ainge
Don Chaney

[fairweatherfan]

Ainge
Silas
Antoine

[2short]

For example Chaney.

A nice thing to know about chaney other than a championship and a single final is that Chaney is the only Boston Celtic member who has played with both Bill Russell (1956–1969) and Larry Bird (1979–1992). ( yes I use to wiki when i dont knoe a thing about a player as part of the learning process)

Nothing´s wrong with wiki to learn about players you don´t know much about, imo. I´ve did the same. It would be wrong to not inform yourself if you don´t know much about a player, although there are certainly better sources than wiki.

Paul Silas
Danny Ainge
Don Chaney

imo chaney will keep antoine off the top 25 but i hate to admit it walker would make top 30

[Roy Hobbs]

For example Chaney.

A nice thing to know about chaney other than a championship and a single final is that Chaney is the only Boston Celtic member who has played with both Bill Russell (1956–1969) and Larry Bird (1979–1992). ( yes I use to wiki when i dont knoe a thing about a player as part of the learning process)

Nothing´s wrong with wiki to learn about players you don´t know much about, imo. I´ve did the same. It would be wrong to not inform yourself if you don´t know much about a player, although there are certainly better sources than wiki.

Paul Silas
Danny Ainge
Don Chaney

imo chaney will keep antoine off the top 25 but i hate to admit it walker would make top 30

I've got Chaney below both Antoine and Ray Allen.  I think a few people are overrating Don Chaney; he played on one championship team, and was the 6th (or even 7th) best player on that team.  In his days in Boston, he was never much better than the 4th or 5th best player here. 

[nickagneta]

 Already voted but my finish up on this subject is

22. Ainge
23. Silas
24. Nelson
25. Bailey Howell
26. Chris Ford - he did win 200+ wins as a coach and a bunch more as an assistant coach
27. Ray Allen - there is no number 17 without him
28. Okay, okay, okay, okay..... Antoine Walker. Stats wise he should be in the top 15 but anyone who ever watched him play knows that Red Auerbach would never have drafted him and would have traded him in a nano-second  after about his third Walker Wiggle and or his second 3-16 from three point land night. He was the epitome of all things non Celtic during the height of the Celtic demise into David Stern style play and away from Celtic team basketball style of play.

[Roy Hobbs]

26. Chris Ford - he did win 200+ wins as a coach and a bunch more as an assistant coach
27. Ray Allen - there is no number 17 without him

I'm shocked that anybody would have Ford over Ray Allen.  Chris Ford played four mediocre-to-poor years here, and was a mediocre coach with a losing career playoff record.  Ray has twice been an all-star, and was a key player on a championship winner. 

As for Bailey Howell, I think he's more an integral part of Celtics history than a guy like Don Chaney is.  He only played four years here, but three of them were very good, and he won two championships.

[Antoine] was the epitome of all things non Celtic during the height of the Celtic demise into David Stern style play and away from Celtic team basketball style of play.

I think that's overly harsh; I think if Antoine had gotten some good coaching early in his career, he would have been a less flawed player.  However, I think he always respected the uniform and demonstrated legitimate "Celtics pride".  He fell this far because of his lack of championships, I think, but he and Pierce almost single-handedly turned the Celts into an Eastern Conference contender.

[Silas]

Already voted but my finish up on this subject is

22. Ainge
23. Silas
24. Nelson
25. Bailey Howell
26. Chris Ford - he did win 200+ wins as a coach and a bunch more as an assistant coach
27. Ray Allen - there is no number 17 without him
28. Okay, okay, okay, okay..... Antoine Walker. Stats wise he should be in the top 15 but anyone who ever watched him play knows that Red Auerbach would never have drafted him and would have traded him in a nano-second  after about his third Walker Wiggle and or his second 3-16 from three point land night. He was the epitome of all things non Celtic during the height of the Celtic demise into David Stern style play and away from Celtic team basketball style of play.

I thought my vote broke the tie and put Silas ahead of Ainge?

[nickagneta]

26. Chris Ford - he did win 200+ wins as a coach and a bunch more as an assistant coach
27. Ray Allen - there is no number 17 without him

I'm shocked that anybody would have Ford over Ray Allen.  Chris Ford played four mediocre-to-poor years here, and was a mediocre coach with a losing career playoff record.  Ray has twice been an all-star, and was a key player on a championship winner. 

As for Bailey Howell, I think he's more an integral part of Celtics history than a guy like Don Chaney is.  He only played four years here, but three of them were very good, and he won two championships.

[Antoine] was the epitome of all things non Celtic during the height of the Celtic demise into David Stern style play and away from Celtic team basketball style of play.

I think that's overly harsh; I think if Antoine had gotten some good coaching early in his career, he would have been a less flawed player.  However, I think he always respected the uniform and demonstrated legitimate "Celtics pride".  He fell this far because of his lack of championships, I think, but he and Pierce almost single-handedly turned the Celts into an Eastern Conference contender.

Okay so switch Ray and Ford though I don't think you are giving Ford enough due as a coach and asst. coach. And I really don't think I'm being too harsh with Antoine. He has pride in being a Celtic but never had Celtic Pride. To me that's a huge difference. His game was all about the name on the back of the jersey and not about the name on the front of the jersey.

Want to blame that on immaturity, bad coaching, bad players surrounding him...that matters not to me. His game was a selfish one and because of that I think he has deserved his fall out of the top 25 of this list.

[2short]

I actually thought Ford was a good coach (not great) who did some good work with an aging team and injuries who just were not that good.  Do I have Ford in top 40, not likely.  I think chaney had a good solid career with c's, silas has good solid years with us and I loved his game but he was not a great stand out (just perfect fit for cowens) .   
 I kind of agree with nick on antoine.  Great stats if you never saw him play and I will say he definately loved the team.  Did he work as hard as he could ? no way.  Was he a stats first guy? yes.  You could see when Pierce was becoming "the man" walker was chucking up shots even at a shocking rate for himself to try and keep his points coming.  And I think red or tommy as coach would have sent walker packing or squished him into a defensive team player immediately. 
Bailey Howell ? I have to say I don't know much about him.

[nickagneta]

I actually thought Ford was a good coach (not great) who did some good work with an aging team and injuries who just were not that good.  Do I have Ford in top 40, not likely.  I think chaney had a good solid career with c's, silas has good solid years with us and I loved his game but he was not a great stand out (just perfect fit for cowens) .   
 I kind of agree with nick on antoine.  Great stats if you never saw him play and I will say he definately loved the team.  Did he work as hard as he could ? no way.  Was he a stats first guy? yes.  You could see when Pierce was becoming "the man" walker was chucking up shots even at a shocking rate for himself to try and keep his points coming.  And I think red or tommy as coach would have sent walker packing or squished him into a defensive team player immediately. 
Bailey Howell ? I have to say I don't know much about him.

Bailey Howell played for the team for 4 or 5 years in the late sixties and won 2 titles. He even made an All-Star team with the Celtics and for three of his seasons here averaged almost a 20/10 in points and rebounds. I think he finished his C's career in the C's top 15 or so all time for PPG and RPG with numbers around 19 PPG and 8 RPG.

Howell is in the Hall of Fame and was a 6 time AllStar. If Ray and Tiny and DJ and KG deserve high rankings for winning one or two titles with the team and being great parts to winning teams because they were great players, Howell deserves just as much acclaim and is getting none of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_Howell

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howelba01.html

[Fan from VT]

I'm tempted to put Big Al at number 25. At a serious franchise lull, he represented hope for the future and the talents of Ainge to hit a homerun without a high pick. So much emotion invested in his development and progress. Even though he didn't pull us out of the lull, he was the key player dealt for KG. If he doesn't pan out at #15, no KG, to title.

[2short]

I actually thought Ford was a good coach (not great) who did some good work with an aging team and injuries who just were not that good.  Do I have Ford in top 40, not likely.  I think chaney had a good solid career with c's, silas has good solid years with us and I loved his game but he was not a great stand out (just perfect fit for cowens) .   
 I kind of agree with nick on antoine.  Great stats if you never saw him play and I will say he definately loved the team.  Did he work as hard as he could ? no way.  Was he a stats first guy? yes.  You could see when Pierce was becoming "the man" walker was chucking up shots even at a shocking rate for himself to try and keep his points coming.  And I think red or tommy as coach would have sent walker packing or squished him into a defensive team player immediately. 
Bailey Howell ? I have to say I don't know much about him.

Bailey Howell played for the team for 4 or 5 years in the late sixties and won 2 titles. He even made an All-Star team with the Celtics and for three of his seasons here averaged almost a 20/10 in points and rebounds. I think he finished his C's career in the C's top 15 or so all time for PPG and RPG with numbers around 19 PPG and 8 RPG.

Howell is in the Hall of Fame and was a 6 time AllStar. If Ray and Tiny and DJ and KG deserve high rankings for winning one or two titles with the team and being great parts to winning teams because they were great players, Howell deserves just as much acclaim and is getting none of it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bailey_Howell

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/howelba01.html

thanks, if he was precowens that must be the reason, or just old age mental block