CelticsBlog has lost its way.

[JSD]

Do Mods check their PM's?

[Redz]

Do Mods check their PM's?

yup...thanks 

[Roy Hobbs]

Do Mods check their PM's?

Generally, yeah. 

The staff has been fairly preoccupied today, though.  We've had a mod announcement (and everything that comes along with that), an editor announcement (and everything that comes along with that), the construction of the CB HOF, multiple other side issues, and this thread.  Plus, of course, our "day jobs".

[ChampKind]

No no no, but if a moderator is called out or baited, they need to squash that, rather than continue bickering with the offending poster.  I think we saw this a few times with the CB draft.

I will agree that we were too lenient in the CB Draft.  If anything, we should have come down harder on people, which would have prevented some of the bickering.  Instead, we specifically didn't use our powers as mods, because we didn't want to take people out of a game they had spent several weeks and dozens of hours of time on. 

Speaking for me personally, certain members didn't like it when I criticized their team, so they attacked me on a personal level.  At that point, my hands are tied.  Either they're disciplined -- at which point they play the martyr card -- or we turn the other cheek.  I chose to turn the other cheek in terms of discipline, while also defending myself against outright lies. 

I just find it hard to criticize the staff for being hypocritical and overly harsh, when the other alternative was to "squash" things.

Understandable, but I think those things may have contributed to CM's complaint.  I think that we should be harsher in future iterations.  If someone steps out of line and makes an outlandish accusation, they should be warned rather than allowing accusations/bickering to take root and grow exponentially, which is what I think we saw.  

Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy the drama, because, oh yes, I did.  But I can see how it would turn others off.

[indeedproceed]

The internet is serious business.

That said I agree with CM that the mods get a carte blanche to instigate because they can lay the noob hammer down to "discipline" us...

I was going to post something to the same effect.  It does seem like the rules aren't universally enforced, and some posters get hit harder than others.  That would be my one suggestion for improvement.

While I understand many posters often feel this way, I just want to point out that probably 80-90% of the work we do as mods is not seen by the community.  I think you would be very surprised in the number of posters who have received warnings privately, and have simply heeded them.  

We do miss things though.  We are all volunteers here, and have other jobs/families/commitments, so we do rely on the rest of the community to point out when rules are broken, in case we miss them.  Then every single issue is addressed in a thorough manner, allowing the entire staff to weigh in, so that there is less chance of bias.  

My issue is more when a moderator jumps into a situation which other posters have been warned about doing.  Even if they are baited, the mods should have to refrain from jumping into situations like these.  In that case, they are antagonizing behavior that doesn't belong on the blog, but appear to face no public consequence for contributing to some of the problems which CM is alluding to.

Well, its something to think about. Can I just say that we're not paid, we're not police officers, heck we're not even really trained..most of us learn on the job the line to toe. As a moderator, I've made mistakes enforcing rules before, and I have no doubt I will again..I've broken a rule or two, and been told about it and apologized like I should. I'm human. Me, Chris, G17, Wd, Redz. Edgar, Roy, Steve, Dons, Jeff, and now Fafnir...we're all human. We're gonna make mistakes.

Also as mods we log dozens of hours a week, hundreds of hours a month, and countless hours a year doing our best to make sure this place stays the same as it ever was.

We have some pretty strict guidelines. They're hard to live by sometimes, but for the most part they work. If you think we're stepping outside of where we should be, don't keep it all bottled up. PM us. If you don't feel like you can discuss it with the mod you have an issue with, tell another. We'll all talk about it. I've been told to cool off before, and yeah, sure I was angry, but it happened and I get over it.

We're not teachers, we're not hall monitors, and we're not cops..we're just people who really love this community and consider you all our friends, and we want to keep this community great. If we falter, I ask only that you have some patience, and discuss it with us like adults.

Sorry if I am behind in the comments, that took like 10 mins to write, and I feel like its an issue that needed to be addressed.

[Hoops]

I haven't taken the time to read all of the comments, but let me respond to CM's initial post. I joined the CB community a LONG time ago (must have been very near the beginning), originally as DJ Hoops. I certainly don't have the post counts to show for it (how do you people do it?), but I visit the site just about every day.

I still think CB is a great site for all things Celtics. That said, anyone who suggests that things haven't changed is delusional. I agree with CM that some of the intimate camaraderie is gone. But that's to be expected given that Jeff's goal has always been to grow the site and the community (I would have the same goal if it were my site). So I guess what I'm saying is that I too really miss the OLD Celticsblog and at the same time, as per the old adage "the only thing that's constant in life is change," I understand why it has changed and I'm ok with it.

[Edgar]

  Plus, of course, our "day jobs".

huh
darn I knew I forgot something today...

[Chris]

The internet is serious business.

That said I agree with CM that the mods get a carte blanche to instigate because they can lay the noob hammer down to "discipline" us...

I was going to post something to the same effect.  It does seem like the rules aren't universally enforced, and some posters get hit harder than others.  That would be my one suggestion for improvement.

While I understand many posters often feel this way, I just want to point out that probably 80-90% of the work we do as mods is not seen by the community.  I think you would be very surprised in the number of posters who have received warnings privately, and have simply heeded them.  

We do miss things though.  We are all volunteers here, and have other jobs/families/commitments, so we do rely on the rest of the community to point out when rules are broken, in case we miss them.  Then every single issue is addressed in a thorough manner, allowing the entire staff to weigh in, so that there is less chance of bias.  

My issue is more when a moderator jumps into a situation which other posters have been warned about doing.  Even if they are baited, the mods should have to refrain from jumping into situations like these.  In that case, they are antagonizing behavior that doesn't belong on the blog, but appear to face no public consequence for contributing to some of the problems which CM is alluding to.

Oh, I think we are all in agreement here.  And I guarantee you, when a staff member crosses the line, it is addressed by the rest of the staff, and they are reminded of the rules just like anyone else.  

The thing is, this is done privately.  We try to do all moderating in private, and only do it publically when we either have no other choice, or need to put out a warning to multiple posters at once.  

Just because you do not see it does not mean it doesn't happen.  And I can guarantee you that when it does happen, the staff members are always very receptive to it, and immediately correct their actions, rather than arguing with their staff to try to justify their actions (which is often a reason why things are not dealt with as cleanly with some posters).

[ChampKind]

The internet is serious business.

That said I agree with CM that the mods get a carte blanche to instigate because they can lay the noob hammer down to "discipline" us...

I was going to post something to the same effect.  It does seem like the rules aren't universally enforced, and some posters get hit harder than others.  That would be my one suggestion for improvement.

While I understand many posters often feel this way, I just want to point out that probably 80-90% of the work we do as mods is not seen by the community.  I think you would be very surprised in the number of posters who have received warnings privately, and have simply heeded them.  

We do miss things though.  We are all volunteers here, and have other jobs/families/commitments, so we do rely on the rest of the community to point out when rules are broken, in case we miss them.  Then every single issue is addressed in a thorough manner, allowing the entire staff to weigh in, so that there is less chance of bias.  

My issue is more when a moderator jumps into a situation which other posters have been warned about doing.  Even if they are baited, the mods should have to refrain from jumping into situations like these.  In that case, they are antagonizing behavior that doesn't belong on the blog, but appear to face no public consequence for contributing to some of the problems which CM is alluding to.

Oh, I think we are all in agreement here.  And I guarantee you, when a staff member crosses the line, it is addressed by the rest of the staff, and they are reminded of the rules just like anyone else.  

The thing is, this is done privately.  We try to do all moderating in private, and only do it publically when we either have no other choice, or need to put out a warning to multiple posters at once.  

Just because you do not see it does not mean it doesn't happen.  And I can guarantee you that when it does happen, the staff members are always very receptive to it, and immediately correct their actions, rather than arguing with their staff to try to justify their actions (which is often a reason why things are not dealt with as cleanly with some posters).

Fair enough.  I guess I'd like to see the inner workings/have some form of disciplinary action made public a bit more clearly, but that's not my decision and probably for the best.  Thanks to the mods for the insightful discussion.  Much appreciated.

[Chris]

No no no, but if a moderator is called out or baited, they need to squash that, rather than continue bickering with the offending poster.  I think we saw this a few times with the CB draft.

I will agree that we were too lenient in the CB Draft.  If anything, we should have come down harder on people, which would have prevented some of the bickering.  Instead, we specifically didn't use our powers as mods, because we didn't want to take people out of a game they had spent several weeks and dozens of hours of time on. 

Speaking for me personally, certain members didn't like it when I criticized their team, so they attacked me on a personal level.  At that point, my hands are tied.  Either they're disciplined -- at which point they play the martyr card -- or we turn the other cheek.  I chose to turn the other cheek in terms of discipline, while also defending myself against outright lies. 

I just find it hard to criticize the staff for being hypocritical and overly harsh, when the other alternative was to "squash" things.

Understandable, but I think those things may have contributed to CM's complaint.  I think that we should be harsher in future iterations.  If someone steps out of line and makes an outlandish accusation, they should be warned rather than allowing accusations/bickering to take root and grow exponentially, which is what I think we saw.  

Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy the drama, because, oh yes, I did.  But I can see how it would turn others off.

This I agree with.  I think at times we give too much rope in situations like this, which help it to get out of control.  The fact is, we never like to...well, do our job.  We don't like to edit posts, or lock threads if we don't have to, and we absolutely hate to have to suspend or ban anyone.  So I think we all tend to let things go a little too much at times, and then things come back to bite us, forcing things to escalate.

Basically, we are not perfect.  But I just hope that everyone understands that none of us has an agenda here.  We do not play favorites, or punish anyone because we have a vendetta against them.  Every single punishment we hand out is VERY well earned, and I think our biggest weakness as a staff is that we let too many things slide at times, if we feel like it is not going to negatively affect the community.

[indeedproceed]

No no no, but if a moderator is called out or baited, they need to squash that, rather than continue bickering with the offending poster.  I think we saw this a few times with the CB draft.

I will agree that we were too lenient in the CB Draft.  If anything, we should have come down harder on people, which would have prevented some of the bickering.  Instead, we specifically didn't use our powers as mods, because we didn't want to take people out of a game they had spent several weeks and dozens of hours of time on. 

Speaking for me personally, certain members didn't like it when I criticized their team, so they attacked me on a personal level.  At that point, my hands are tied.  Either they're disciplined -- at which point they play the martyr card -- or we turn the other cheek.  I chose to turn the other cheek in terms of discipline, while also defending myself against outright lies. 

I just find it hard to criticize the staff for being hypocritical and overly harsh, when the other alternative was to "squash" things.

Understandable, but I think those things may have contributed to CM's complaint.  I think that we should be harsher in future iterations.  If someone steps out of line and makes an outlandish accusation, they should be warned rather than allowing accusations/bickering to take root and grow exponentially, which is what I think we saw.  

Which is not to say that I didn't enjoy the drama, because, oh yes, I did.  But I can see how it would turn others off.

This I agree with.  I think at times we give too much rope in situations like this, which help it to get out of control.  The fact is, we never like to...well, do our job.  We don't like to edit posts, or lock threads if we don't have to, and we absolutely hate to have to suspend or ban anyone.  So I think we all tend to let things go a little too much at times, and then things come back to bite us, forcing things to escalate.

Basically, we are not perfect.  But I just hope that everyone understands that none of us has an agenda here.  We do not play favorites, or punish anyone because we have a vendetta against them.  Every single punishment we hand out is VERY well earned, and I think our biggest weakness as a staff is that we let too many things slide at times, if we feel like it is not going to negatively affect the community.

completely co-signed.

[Redz]

The internet is serious business.

That said I agree with CM that the mods get a carte blanche to instigate because they can lay the noob hammer down to "discipline" us...

I was going to post something to the same effect.  It does seem like the rules aren't universally enforced, and some posters get hit harder than others.  That would be my one suggestion for improvement.

While I understand many posters often feel this way, I just want to point out that probably 80-90% of the work we do as mods is not seen by the community.  I think you would be very surprised in the number of posters who have received warnings privately, and have simply heeded them.  

We do miss things though.  We are all volunteers here, and have other jobs/families/commitments, so we do rely on the rest of the community to point out when rules are broken, in case we miss them.  Then every single issue is addressed in a thorough manner, allowing the entire staff to weigh in, so that there is less chance of bias.  

My issue is more when a moderator jumps into a situation which other posters have been warned about doing.  Even if they are baited, the mods should have to refrain from jumping into situations like these.  In that case, they are antagonizing behavior that doesn't belong on the blog, but appear to face no public consequence for contributing to some of the problems which CM is alluding to.

Oh, I think we are all in agreement here.  And I guarantee you, when a staff member crosses the line, it is addressed by the rest of the staff, and they are reminded of the rules just like anyone else.  

The thing is, this is done privately.  We try to do all moderating in private, and only do it publically when we either have no other choice, or need to put out a warning to multiple posters at once.  

Just because you do not see it does not mean it doesn't happen.  And I can guarantee you that when it does happen, the staff members are always very receptive to it, and immediately correct their actions, rather than arguing with their staff to try to justify their actions (which is often a reason why things are not dealt with as cleanly with some posters).

Fair enough.  I guess I'd like to see the inner workings/have some form of disciplinary action made public a bit more clearly, but that's not my decision and probably for the best.  Thanks to the mods for the insightful discussion.  Much appreciated.

Roy can probably answer to the reasoning behind this better than I can, but suspensions and bans are not announced publicly.

[Roy Hobbs]

Fair enough.  I guess I'd like to see the inner workings/have some form of disciplinary action made public a bit more clearly, but that's not my decision and probably for the best.  Thanks to the mods for the insightful discussion.  Much appreciated.

Roy can probably answer to the reasoning behind this better than I can, but suspensions and bans are not announced publicly.

Exactly right.  The purpose of discipline isn't to embarass anybody.  At times, there will be public warnings -- usually after private warnings -- but in terms of suspensions / bans, we simply don't go public with those.  It's not fair to the person who was disciplined, first and foremost.

That being the case, of course we're going to follow the same policy with staff members.  However, I can honestly say that I've yet to see any current member of the staff ever commit a serious breach of trust.  Maybe there are things that I would have handled differently -- and other staff members have felt the same way about me, I'm sure -- but never once have any of this current group of mods ever crossed a serious line, in my opinion.

[angryguy77]

 I do feel that some get away with more than others here with how they talk and react to some others. That's the only thing that I see wrong with the site. But its not a big problem that ruins the site. I think the mods do a pretty good job at keeping things in hand.
My suggestion to some is to put the big boy pants on and realize this is the internet and when you discuss things like sports it can get a little rough. But you turn off the computer when you are done and go on living your real life. When it comes down to it, who the hell cares if someone was mean to you on C's blog?

[Potapenko Boxout]

"I promise you one thing. A lot of good will come out of this. You will never see any blogger in the entire country play as hard as I will play the rest of the offseason. You will never see someone push the rest of the team as hard as I will push everybody the rest of the season. You will never see a team play harder than we will the rest of the season."