Author Topic: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18  (Read 7503 times)

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25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« on: August 20, 2009, 10:38:59 AM »

Offline Casperian

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This is #18 in a series of threads to determine the 25 greatest Celtics of All-Time.

Itīs the off-season, and we need something to talk about besides nonsensical trade-rumors.

So I thought we could make a big poll to decide once and for all who are the greatest Celtics of all-time. Iīm sure it has been done many times before, and I know that itīs tricky to rate our legends, but I think thereīs no better place for this than Celticsblog, and I havenīt seen such a poll here before.


Players to consider:

Frank Ramsey
Satch Sanders
Don Nelson
Jim Loscutoff
Paul Silas
Ed Macauley
Danny Ainge
Don Chaney
Charlie Scott
Ray Allen
Nate Archibald
M.L. Carr
Bailey Howell



Rules

1. Only former or current players are eligible.
No former coaches, GMs or owners. The Celticsī history has just too many characters to include all of them.
You canīt vote for a player who has already won one of the earlier polls.

2. You can include off-the-court performances.
Although only former or current players are eligible, it is perfectly fine to include Tommy`s contributions as a coach and broadcaster, Danny Ainge`s work as a GM or Dave Cowensī nap on a parkbench after celebrating with the fans in 1974 in your evaluation.

3. You have three votes
The first vote is worth 4 points, the second 2 points, and the third 1 point. This system is certainly more suited for a poll like this than a simple "one vote" poll.

Just write a post with your votes, and after the poll is closed, I will go through the thread and count every vote personally. Iīll close the poll in 2-4 days.


#1  Bill Russell
#2  Larry Bird
#3  John Havlicek
#4  Bob Cousy
#5  Kevin McHale
#6  Tommy Heinsohn
#7  Paul Pierce
#8  Dave Cowens
#9  Sam Jones
#10 Robert Parish
#11 Bill Sharman
#12 Dennis Johnson
#13 JoJo White
#14 Kevin Garnett
#15 Cedric Maxwell
#16 Reggie Lewis

Winner of the last poll:




K.C. Jones

Quote
K.C. Jones played college basketball at the University of San Francisco and, along with Bill Russell, led the Dons to two NCAA championships in 1955 and 1956. Jones also played with Russell on the United States men's Olympic team, which won the gold medal at the 1956 Olympics. As a member of the Boston Celtics Jones won eight NBA titles.

Few NBA players have won distinction by scoring 7.4 points per game. Few have survived more than a season or two with career percentages of .387 from the floor and .632 from the free-throw line. But K.C. Jones not only survived, he thrived for nine seasons as a key member of so many winning Boston Celtics teams that a sportswriter once suggested the initial "C" in his name stood for "championships."
Defensive intensity and the will to win made Jones a key part of the Celtics dynasty.

Jones and Russell entered into a lifetime friendship while rooming together at the university. The sociable, outgoing Russell was a stark contrast to Jones, who was so shy when he first appeared on campus that people wondered whether he ever spoke at all. In his book Second Wind, Russell once recalled that Jones didn't say a word to him for the first month.

"He'd slap my bunk on the way out of the room in the mornings, and he'd nod at the salt or sugar during the silent meals we ate in the school cafeteria. That was the extent of our communication, until one day when he started talking like a normal person."

The soft-spoken guard showed plenty of spark on the court. Like Russell, Jones excelled at defense. A quick 6-1 guard, he made his mark with sticky man-to-man pressure and a knack for steals. Neither Russell nor Jones shot well, but they led the Dons to 56 consecutive wins and back-to-back NCAA Championships in 1955 and 1956 (although Jones did not play in the 1956 NCAA Tournament because his eligibility had expired late in the regular season). Jones averaged 8.8 points during his college career. He also played on the 1956 U.S. Olympic Team that won a gold medal at Melbourne, Australia.

While scouting Russell, sharp-eyed Celtics Coach Red Auerbach took notice of Jones and selected him in the second round of the 1956 NBA Draft. Instead of going to camp with the Celtics, however, Jones joined the Army and served for almost two years. He later said that he thought he wouldn't have made the 1956-57 Celtics team because the squad had such a deep bench.

When his hitch with the Army was finished in 1958, he again sidestepped professional basketball. Although Jones hadn't played college football, Pete Rozelle, a former University of San Francisco public relations official and future NFL commissioner who had seen him excel in high school, brought him to the attention of the Los Angeles Rams, who made him a late draft pick. After playing several exhibition games as a defensive back for the Rams, Jones suffered a leg injury and quit the sport.

With the welcome mat from the Celtics still out, Jones headed for the Boston training camp, where Auerbach had assembled a powerhouse club. They were about to begin winning championships routinely, revolutionizing basketball by emphasizing defense and shotblocking as the trigger for a high-scoring, fast-break attack.

When Jones arrived in 1958 Boston's backcourt boasted two All-NBA guards in Cousy and Bill Sharman. Not surprisingly, Jones saw limited playing time as a reserve during his rookie year. Spelling Cousy for 12 to 13 minutes per game, he averaged 3.5 points. The Celtics trounced an overmatched Minneapolis Lakers squad in the 1959 NBA Finals, capturing the championship in a four-game sweep.

The title marked the beginning of an extraordinary run of success for the Celtics. They went on to record eight consecutive NBA Championships, a record unparalleled in professional sports. The centerpiece of the team was Russell, whose rebounding, defense, and deft outlet passing keyed the Celtics' fast break. Boston's frontcourt featured hotshot forwards Tom Heinsohn and Frank Ramsey. Cousy, the passing wizard and court general, and sharp-shooting Sharman rounded out one of the greatest starting lineups ever assembled.

During Jones's second season his playing time increased to 17.2 minutes per contest. He posted a 6.3 scoring average for the Celtics, whose high-flying offense averaged 124.5 points. Boston defeated the St. Louis Hawks for the title, then repeated with a victory over the Hawks in the Finals the next year. The following two years, 1962 and 1963, Boston triumphed over the Lakers for the championship.

K.C. Jones and another new face, a young guard named Sam Jones, broke in as important reserves for Cousy and Sharman. The two Joneses complemented one another. Sam, a pure shooter, provided offense, while K.C. delivered defense. With the Jones duo shuttling in off the bench, the Celtics added the necessary depth to play fast-paced, pressure basketball for 48 minutes.

Sharman left the Celtics after the 1960-61 campaign to coach the Los Angeles Jets of the American Basketball League. Cousy's retirement two years later gave K.C. Jones a chance to step up to full-time duty. For five years he had been a patient reserve, soaking up basketball knowledge.

"I played for Red Auerbach. I watched him, listened to him, saw what he did," Jones recalled. "Cousy was the quarterback of our team and I watched him. I was a bench guy and I hated being on the bench, but while I was there I watched and absorbed, and when I got out there on the court I was in heaven."

Jones proved to be a talented, if unspectacular, floor leader. He directed the offense and distributed the ball well, placing among the league leaders in assists. (He ranks seventh among the Celtics' career leaders in assists with 2,908.) Most importantly, his defense regularly shackled stars such as the Los Angeles Lakers' Jerry West and the Cincinnati Royals' Oscar Robertson. Jones would have been a shoo-in for the NBA All-Defensive Team, but the award didn't come into existence until the 1968-69 season, two years after Jones had retired.

Even without Cousy and Sharman, the Celtics continued to roll during the mid-1960s. With K.C. Jones quarterbacking the offense, the team downed the San Francisco Warriors and Wilt Chamberlain in the 1964 NBA Finals. Jones averaged 8.2 points for the season and ranked third in the league in assists with 5.1 per game.

The Celtics won championships again in 1965 and 1966. Jones made the 1966-67 season his final campaign. His career came to a close when the Philadelphia 76ers ended the Celtics' reign in the playoffs. It was the first and only season in which Jones didn't wind up with a championship ring. His uniform No. 25 was retired by the Celtics and raised to the Boston Garden rafters

Although some observers suggested that he had been selected as head coach only because he was a sentimental favorite of Auerbach's, Jones was a popular choice among players. With his warm smile and easygoing demeanor, Jones was the antithesis of the hard-driving, volatile Fitch. Calm and cool, he rarely yelled at players or tried to motivate his team through intimidation. He welcomed the ideas of intelligent veterans such as Larry Bird, Robert Parish and Kevin McHale. "He's got our respect as a coach and as a person," Bird told USA Today.

Three weeks after he was named head coach the Celtics made a key trade, sending center Rick Robey to the Phoenix Suns for guard Dennis Johnson. With a nucleus of All-Stars, Jones had a veteran cast that needed little direction. The result was immediate success. During the 1983-84 season the Celtics posted a 62-20 record and then beat the Los Angeles Lakers in seven games for the NBA Championship. Jones was credited by many Celtics players for his leadership

Jones downplayed his nice-guy image. "I listen to the players. My job is to give them direction and a base to operate from, but you have to let them use their own creativity and imaginations. It's their game, they have to be allowed to play it." Critics claimed his laid-back style of coaching was successful merely because players such as Bird, Parish, McHale, and Johnson practically coached themselves.

In any case, Jones had his first NBA crown as a head coach. "Coming from where I was, with all the turmoil and rough seas, it was wonderful," he told Inside Sports after the season. "I knew a lot of people doubted my ability. I had grown bitter all those years, but that night when it was over, I said to myself, 'Look where you are.'"

Jones spent four more years coaching the Celtics. Following up his first season with a 63-19 record, his team then went 67-15 and won the title again in 1986. He closed in on another NBA title the following year, posting a record of 59-23, but he had to settle for a runner-up finish to the Lakers. During the final year of his tenure the Celtics went 57-25.

As coach of the Bullets, Celtics, and Sonics, Jones won 522 regular-season games, never had a losing season, and finished with a .674 winning percentage, which still stands as one of the best coaching marks of all time. He won eight championship rings as a player, one as an assistant coach with the Lakers, one as an assistant with Boston, and two as head coach of the Celtics. Few have matched Jones's lifetime record of NBA success.

When Jones was elected to the Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame in 1989, he brought with him a legacy of personal respect. As Bird once cracked, "He's the kind of person I'd like to be, but I don't have the time to work at it."

Final Outcome (points in parenthesis):
Total Votes: 20

K.C. Jones (40)
Ed Macauley (29)
Frank Ramsey (25)
Satch Sanders (17)
Danny Ainge (16)
Paul Silas (6)

2 players tied with 2 points
3 players tied with 1 point
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2009, 10:40:27 AM »

Offline Redz

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Ramsey
Silas
Ainge
Yup

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2009, 10:40:57 AM »

Offline Casperian

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...and if there are guys you want to see on the "players to consider" -list, let me know.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2009, 10:42:19 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Ed Macauley
Danny Ainge
Frank Ramsey

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

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Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2009, 11:03:55 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Ed  Macauley

Danny Ainge

Paul Silas
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Nice to be back!

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2009, 11:05:06 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Nice call on Silas...  he's probably next on my list after Ramsey.  (Ramsey - Silas - Sanders, probably).

But, we've got to get Easy Ed in first.

All the negativity in this town sucks. It sucks, and it stinks, and it sucks. - Rick Pitino

Portland CrotoNats:  2009 CB Draft Champions

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2009, 11:05:59 AM »

Offline Edgar

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I have been reading a lot on silas lately not on ramsey so maybe most surely i am a little based.


#1  Bill Russell  C
#2  Larry Bird    SF
#3  John Havlicek SG
#4  Bob Cousy     PG
#5  Kevin McHale  PF (the best ever)


So i guess coincidentally this is Boston Celtics All Time team
« Last Edit: August 20, 2009, 11:25:16 AM by Edgar »
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2009, 11:06:35 AM »

Offline paintitgreen

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Ramsey
Sanders
Silas
Go Celtics.

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2009, 11:53:41 AM »

Offline Hoops

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Ainge
Macauley
Ramsey

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2009, 01:08:33 PM »

Offline Gemini

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Ed Macauley
Satch Sanders
Antoine Walker
Green 18!

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #10 on: August 20, 2009, 01:28:59 PM »

Offline feckless

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Tiny Archibald was the best player on the list--tail end of his career when a Celt!

Paul Silas

Don Nelson
Days up and down they come, like rain on a conga drum, forget most, remember some, don't turn none away.   Townes Van Zandt

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2009, 01:32:43 PM »

Offline Who

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Paul Silas
Satch Sanders
Frank Ramsey

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2009, 04:44:51 PM »

Offline Donoghus

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Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2009, 05:17:34 PM »

Offline RAcker

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Ed Macauley
Danny Ainge
Frank Ramsey

Re: 25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #18
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2009, 05:42:07 PM »

Offline hardlyyardley

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definitely tiny....he was a star on any team not a role player like KC or Sanders

Also Ramsey would be a great player in any era

Add Silas for my third vote