Author Topic: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread  (Read 8670 times)

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Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« on: July 10, 2009, 11:03:24 PM »

Offline Nut from Nh

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We lost out on Grant Hill, ouch!  I think we must resign Baby, and we must get a good wing, and we should get a serviceable backup pg but it's not a necessity.  There is a lot we can do with the Scal and TA combo (about 6 million), and you can always spice it up with Pruit/Walker/Giddens if you must. 

The Herlad said Danny is now looking into sign and trades and that's good.  But what can we do with the Scal and TA expiring contract combo?

Someone already said Battier - Scal and TA work, spice it up with Pruit or Giddens?  It's only a two year committment, perfect!

Gomes - Scal straight up works. You can add Pruit or Giddens and it still works.  I like it..

PG?  How bout Earl Watson? OKC has no use for him, Scal and TA works.  OKC would never do it but add Kyle Weaver, uh!  Weaver is a player, he can do it all shoot defend, run, athletic.  They have Sefolosha who is a carbon copy, so maybe they do it.  If they added Weaver we could add any 2 player combo from Walker/Giddens/Pruitt

Nocioni - 3 years @ 7.5 mil... eh, Scal, TA, and 1 of Pruitt/Walker/Giddens.  Sac Town does this without hesitation IMO.

Scal and TA for Udrih?  I bet they do that too, and you lock up your backup point for the next 3 years, a little overpaid at 6 mil.

Korver (also expiring)

NJ is in full rebuild mode. You can take care of the backup SF and PG with Scal and TA... Jarvis Hayes and Dooling.  Dooling played well last year, and Hayes was servicable, I think Walker is ready to contribute too.  I bet NJ would do this just to get out of the nearly 4 million they will owe Dooling after this year.  I would spice it with Pruitt, but not Walker or Giddens.

Jeff Foster - Long long tenure in Indi, but they have Hansbrough.  I bet they would do it, he's owed 6 mil per for the next 2 years.

Thats all I got.  I think DA could get a decent player with this combo, and not one of these suggestions is a sign and trade. 

If you want to do a sign and trade, give Scal and TA to the Knicks for Robinson, 24 mil over 4 years. I would flip.  The Knicks would do it.  Resign Baby, your second unit could be

Nate
House/Giddens?
Walker
BBD
Sheed

I'll take it. Small backcourt but who cares... I just love Nate.

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 11:08:24 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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There are no musts as far as individual players go.

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 11:10:17 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I doubt it would happen, but Boston could offer Tony Allen and Pruitt's non-guaranteed contract (and perhaps a future draft pick?) to Portland for Travis Outlaw.

Portland could then cut Pruitt, and free up an additional $1.1 million in cap space.

I think Portland likes Outlaw too much to do this though.
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Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 11:19:44 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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i like Scal on this team, i just don't like his contract... :(

TA and Pruitt on the other hand... i've had enough. Unless TA all the sudden is a good decision maker.

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 11:25:41 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I wouldn't be surprised if we traded Scal then he got bought out and we resigned him for the minimum.
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Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2009, 11:36:22 PM »

Offline Bulldog!

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The Globe reports that Charlotte is interested in Baby.  This kind of surprises me with Okafur, Diaw, Diop and Mohammed (and Aijinca)all on committed contracts. If they are interested in Baby, they have to be thinking of dumping one of these guys. Nobody would want Mohammed with his $6.4M contract and Diop is not too attractive at $6M. Would they be interested in a sign and trade of Baby plus TA and Scal for Diaw?

Charlotte is one of the teams that wants to dump salary. If Baby signs for $3.5M, even as a Base Year player, the numbers work when he is combined with Scal and TA for Diaw (9M/yr for the next 3 years). I could see Charlotte waiving Scal, especially if we sent a couple million along with the deal to cover part of his salary. Even with no money sent from the Celts, Charlotte would save about $19M over the life of the deal.

Although Diaw played only PF the last 2 years, prior to this he split his time between SF and PF. When he first came into the league with Atlanta, he played SG and SF. I could see him logging 15-18 minutes at SF and 10 minutes at PF with Sheed taking 15-18 minutes at C and 8 or so at PF. It would be expensive for the Celts, but I think this would be a home run. What do you think?

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 11:40:54 PM »

Offline GKC

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The Globe reports that Charlotte is interested in Baby.  This kind of surprises me with Okafur, Diaw, Diop and Mohammed (and Aijinca)all on committed contracts. If they are interested in Baby, they have to be thinking of dumping one of these guys. Nobody would want Mohammed with his $6.4M contract and Diop is not too attractive at $6M. Would they be interested in a sign and trade of Baby plus TA and Scal for Diaw?

Charlotte is one of the teams that wants to dump salary. If Baby signs for $3.5M, even as a Base Year player, the numbers work when he is combined with Scal and TA for Diaw (9M/yr for the next 3 years). I could see Charlotte waiving Scal, especially if we sent a couple million along with the deal to cover part of his salary. Even with no money sent from the Celts, Charlotte would save about $19M over the life of the deal.

Although Diaw played only PF the last 2 years, prior to this he split his time between SF and PF. When he first came into the league with Atlanta, he played SG and SF. I could see him logging 15-18 minutes at SF and 10 minutes at PF with Sheed taking 15-18 minutes at C and 8 or so at PF. It would be expensive for the Celts, but I think this would be a home run. What do you think?

I think he would be great. In phoenix, Diaw even played center. He can play 3 positions and would help out with depth a lot.

My only problem is I don't know if we'd want to pay upwards of 9 million a year to someone who would fill Posey's role (24 minutes a game in the 07-08 season), especially when we weren't willing to pay Posey the MLE
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Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 11:49:46 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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The Globe reports that Charlotte is interested in Baby.  This kind of surprises me with Okafur, Diaw, Diop and Mohammed (and Aijinca)all on committed contracts. If they are interested in Baby, they have to be thinking of dumping one of these guys. Nobody would want Mohammed with his $6.4M contract and Diop is not too attractive at $6M. Would they be interested in a sign and trade of Baby plus TA and Scal for Diaw?

Charlotte is one of the teams that wants to dump salary. If Baby signs for $3.5M, even as a Base Year player, the numbers work when he is combined with Scal and TA for Diaw (9M/yr for the next 3 years). I could see Charlotte waiving Scal, especially if we sent a couple million along with the deal to cover part of his salary. Even with no money sent from the Celts, Charlotte would save about $19M over the life of the deal.

Although Diaw played only PF the last 2 years, prior to this he split his time between SF and PF. When he first came into the league with Atlanta, he played SG and SF. I could see him logging 15-18 minutes at SF and 10 minutes at PF with Sheed taking 15-18 minutes at C and 8 or so at PF. It would be expensive for the Celts, but I think this would be a home run. What do you think?

Good idea, BUT....

you didn't read the Roy Hobbes Salary Cap FAQ, WHICH STATES!:


Quote from:  Roy Hobbs
If you give a player larger than a 20% raise, he's subject to something called "base year compensation".  Essentially, what this means is that for purposes of trades, you only count 50% of the player's actual salary as outgoing salary for trade purposes.  However, the team trading *for* the BYC player has to count 100% of his actual salary for incoming purposes.

I know that's confusing as heck, so let me use an example.  Let's say we want to trade Leon for a player making $7 million.  We thus intend to sign Leon to a one-year, $7 million contract.  Here's how that breaks down under BYC rules:

Boston trades:  Leon Powe ($7 million salary * 50% reduction = $3.5 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

The trade cannot go through, because the $3.5 million and $7.0 million salaries don't "match" within 125% + $100k.

Couldn't we just sign Leon to a $14 million expiring contract to complete the trade, then?  No.  Here's why not:

Boston trades: Leon ($14 million salary * 50% reduction = $7.0 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

So far so good, right?  However, the next step kills it:

Team X trades: $7 million player
Team X receives: Leon Powe ($14 million salary, with no reduction)

Thus, once again, the salaries don't "match".  Base year compensation makes it very difficult (although not impossible) for players to be traded in the first year of contracts where they saw a substantial raise.

Therefore this is not possible.

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 11:51:47 PM »

Offline Bulldog!

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I agree that the money (3 years at $9M) is a lot for the Celts to swallow. On the other hand, he can fill the role that baby would play at backup PF saving us about #3.5 M of his salary and fill some of the wing duties at SF, saving us money for another wing player. He's in his prime at 27 and his three year contract matches perfect with KG and Sheed's time frame. If he's at SF, I'd be happy with Eddie getting major backup minutes at the SG, saving us the cost of another wing player that we're looking for. It wouldn't cost us anything extra  for the first year (the contracts would be a wash with Charlotte) and Diaw could be a great expiring in his third year (only 30 years old)......just dreaming

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2009, 11:52:54 PM »

Offline Change

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The Globe reports that Charlotte is interested in Baby.  This kind of surprises me with Okafur, Diaw, Diop and Mohammed (and Aijinca)all on committed contracts. If they are interested in Baby, they have to be thinking of dumping one of these guys. Nobody would want Mohammed with his $6.4M contract and Diop is not too attractive at $6M. Would they be interested in a sign and trade of Baby plus TA and Scal for Diaw?

Charlotte is one of the teams that wants to dump salary. If Baby signs for $3.5M, even as a Base Year player, the numbers work when he is combined with Scal and TA for Diaw (9M/yr for the next 3 years). I could see Charlotte waiving Scal, especially if we sent a couple million along with the deal to cover part of his salary. Even with no money sent from the Celts, Charlotte would save about $19M over the life of the deal.

Although Diaw played only PF the last 2 years, prior to this he split his time between SF and PF. When he first came into the league with Atlanta, he played SG and SF. I could see him logging 15-18 minutes at SF and 10 minutes at PF with Sheed taking 15-18 minutes at C and 8 or so at PF. It would be expensive for the Celts, but I think this would be a home run. What do you think?

No, I want my baby back. Seriously

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2009, 11:59:10 PM »

Offline Bulldog!

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I think the base year calculations work out:

If Baby signs for $3.75M, he would count as $1.75M going out form Boston.

             IN                                OUT
Boston    $9M (Diaw)       1.75(baby)+$2.5(TA)+$3.4(scal)=$7.65
Char $3.75(baby)+$2.5(TA)+$3.4(Scal)=$9.65    $9M (Diaw)

Both of these calculations are within 125% of each other, as required by the CBA.     


Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2009, 12:00:23 AM »

Offline Bulldog!

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Whoops, I meant if Baby signs for %3.5M.....the rest is the same

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2009, 12:01:36 AM »

Offline Lucky17

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The Globe reports that Charlotte is interested in Baby.  This kind of surprises me with Okafur, Diaw, Diop and Mohammed (and Aijinca)all on committed contracts. If they are interested in Baby, they have to be thinking of dumping one of these guys. Nobody would want Mohammed with his $6.4M contract and Diop is not too attractive at $6M. Would they be interested in a sign and trade of Baby plus TA and Scal for Diaw?

Charlotte is one of the teams that wants to dump salary. If Baby signs for $3.5M, even as a Base Year player, the numbers work when he is combined with Scal and TA for Diaw (9M/yr for the next 3 years). I could see Charlotte waiving Scal, especially if we sent a couple million along with the deal to cover part of his salary. Even with no money sent from the Celts, Charlotte would save about $19M over the life of the deal.

Although Diaw played only PF the last 2 years, prior to this he split his time between SF and PF. When he first came into the league with Atlanta, he played SG and SF. I could see him logging 15-18 minutes at SF and 10 minutes at PF with Sheed taking 15-18 minutes at C and 8 or so at PF. It would be expensive for the Celts, but I think this would be a home run. What do you think?

Good idea, BUT....

you didn't read the Roy Hobbes Salary Cap FAQ, WHICH STATES!:


Quote from:  Roy Hobbs
If you give a player larger than a 20% raise, he's subject to something called "base year compensation".  Essentially, what this means is that for purposes of trades, you only count 50% of the player's actual salary as outgoing salary for trade purposes.  However, the team trading *for* the BYC player has to count 100% of his actual salary for incoming purposes.

I know that's confusing as heck, so let me use an example.  Let's say we want to trade Leon for a player making $7 million.  We thus intend to sign Leon to a one-year, $7 million contract.  Here's how that breaks down under BYC rules:

Boston trades:  Leon Powe ($7 million salary * 50% reduction = $3.5 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

The trade cannot go through, because the $3.5 million and $7.0 million salaries don't "match" within 125% + $100k.

Couldn't we just sign Leon to a $14 million expiring contract to complete the trade, then?  No.  Here's why not:

Boston trades: Leon ($14 million salary * 50% reduction = $7.0 million)
Boston receives: $7 million player

So far so good, right?  However, the next step kills it:

Team X trades: $7 million player
Team X receives: Leon Powe ($14 million salary, with no reduction)

Thus, once again, the salaries don't "match".  Base year compensation makes it very difficult (although not impossible) for players to be traded in the first year of contracts where they saw a substantial raise.

Therefore this is not possible.


I believe the numbers would work on a $3.6 mil S&T of Baby, Scal ($3.4 mil), and Tony ($2.5 mil) for Diaw.

BOS outgoing salary: $7.7 mil ($3.6 mil / 2 + $5.9 mil)
BOS incoming salary: $9.0 mil
BOS max incoming salary: $9.725 mil ($7.7 mil / 2 x 1.25 + $100k)

NO outgoing salary: $9.0 mil
NO incoming salary: $9.5 mil
NO max incoming salary: $11.35 mil
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Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 12:03:13 AM »

Offline Bulldog!

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I agree - the numbers do work whether he signs for $3.5 or $3.6M

Re: Official Scal + Tony Allen Trade Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 12:06:27 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Boris Diaw would be awesome.  Could function as backup SF and fourth big if necessary.

I imagine it's unlikely, though.

NO is probably the best bet.  They have a lot of swingmen on their roster...6'7''-6'8'' guys who can hit threes and play defense. 

A combination of a few of their guys for BBD and one or two of our expiring contracts would be a good move.
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