Author Topic: Allen Iverson Chokes Up  (Read 27930 times)

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Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2009, 12:51:02 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Thing is, AI needs a system that helps him. I mean, you can't argue that when on court, he doesn't pour his heart out.

And that list is bogus. Eric Gordon? Come on...
Granted Iverson's rep may make contenders not want him, but he's still an amazing player. It sucks that he can't be the alpha dog anymore, but that's what his game is designed to be.
If Iverson could learn a little from Ginobili about "team", he could be one of the most sought after FAs this summer.

The "rep" isn't the problem. The problem is the attitude.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2009, 01:25:47 AM »

Offline Junkyard Dawg

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Quote
Granted Iverson's rep may make contenders not want him, but he's still an amazing player. It sucks that he can't be the alpha dog anymore, but that's what his game is designed to be.

I think that sums up AI's game perfectly.  When he said he'd rather retire than come off the bench, I took it to mean that he feels he doesn't know how to help a team win while coming off the bench.. Everyone wanted to jump all over him and turn him into a selfish, immature baby, but he was frustrated fresh coming off an injury and a loss and obviously was seeing the writing on the wall.  I hope for his sake he sucks it up and changes his mind, and tries to play 6th man for a contending team, because it's obvious hes got more heart and guts than most of the players in this league.

I've mentioned this in  other posts, but don't forget Iverson was one of 2 superstars who got off their A*& to play for that doomed from the start 2004 Bronze medal olympic team.  Melo Lebron and those guys hadn't stepped onto an NBA court yet, and all the other superstars were supposedly worried about injuries and "terrorism".  And he gets hated on that for that, too.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2009, 01:48:18 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Quote
Granted Iverson's rep may make contenders not want him, but he's still an amazing player. It sucks that he can't be the alpha dog anymore, but that's what his game is designed to be.

I think that sums up AI's game perfectly.  When he said he'd rather retire than come off the bench, I took it to mean that he feels he doesn't know how to help a team win while coming off the bench.. Everyone wanted to jump all over him and turn him into a selfish, immature baby, but he was frustrated fresh coming off an injury and a loss and obviously was seeing the writing on the wall.  I hope for his sake he sucks it up and changes his mind, and tries to play 6th man for a contending team, because it's obvious hes got more heart and guts than most of the players in this league.

I've mentioned this in  other posts, but don't forget Iverson was one of 2 superstars who got off their A*& to play for that doomed from the start 2004 Bronze medal olympic team.  Melo Lebron and those guys hadn't stepped onto an NBA court yet, and all the other superstars were supposedly worried about injuries and "terrorism".  And he gets hated on that for that, too.
There are many things I like about AI.

The problem I see is that the confidence that made him so great also makes it hard for him to evaluate himself and accept his limitations.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2009, 01:57:50 AM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Its not his skills that make him a bad player, its his attitude, the fact that he doesn't play the right way, for all the things he's accomplished he doesn't know how to lead a team.

I'll admit this video made me see a different side of him, but i still wouldn't want him on my team. I'd rather Stephon as my PG.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2009, 09:02:55 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Playing the victim.

Try going to practice.

Come on don't be so cynical. He may have slipped now, but last time I checked Iverson was the 3rd all time scorer in NBA. Its hard to swallow your pride when you are still better than 90% of the players in the league.

In his own mind only.

Really? The NBA has 450 players. Please name 46 current players better than Iverson.


Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Derrick Rose
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson
Devin Harris
Jose Calderon
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili
Tracy McGrady
Ben Gordon
Rip Hamilton
Vince Carter
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Joe Johnson
Eric Gordon
Ray Allen
Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Lebron James
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest
Rashard Lewis
Carmelo Anthony
Danny Granger
Tayshaun Prince
Hedo Tukoglu
Kevin Durant
Caron Butler
Al Jefferson
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Josh Smith
Kevin Garnett
Rasheed Wallace
Shaq
Big Z
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming


Took me awhile but i did it.

1) Half your list is big men.

2) Half your 1/2 guards are not better than AI.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2009, 09:17:41 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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For all the banter going back and forth as to just how good Iverson is what matters most to GMs is just how well is a player going to fit into the coach, personnel and system that are already in place. And here's the thing, none of us have ever been in the locker rooms that Iverson has been in. None know the behind the scenes antics that go on.

We've heard about them. The whole "practice" thing, the squabbles and quitting on his team last year, his run ins with Larry Brown and some other coaches. But we don't have the full story and just about every GM in the league probably does. So with AI still seemingly available and with little to no interest, his media leaked problems might only be the tip of the iceberg for all we know.

There's a lot of circumstantial and empirical evidence to suggest that Iverson is a problem child and is a bad fit to the team concept of basketball. His game has always been and will always be "me" oriented in a "we" game.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2009, 09:25:18 AM »

Offline KevinGamble

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I think this topic points out the one thing that a very divided public can agree on about A.I.  The man has a lot of heart. I have loved watching him over the years, because he is a warrior and plays tons of minutes and never wants to come out the game.  Other people see the "poster-image" for everything that is wrong with modern basketball.

Truth is there is room for unique individuals in this NBA, and someone can be a poor fit for the C's but be amazing somewhere else, and I hope it works out for A.I.
"You're skating on pretty thin ice around here, McGee!"
"Sounds like the ice's problem."

2 for the Show!
GO CELTS!

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2009, 09:47:54 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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I wouldn't take AI over Lebron, but Kobe yes.

Iverson is still a great player, people think just because Dumars blew up his already dying Pistons team that it was all Iverson's fault.

Get real.

They were saying the same crap about Paul Pierce just 2-3 years ago.
I agree 100% how can someone be done being a year removed from the #3 scorer in the NBA? specially with the worst coach this year.
I see the problem now, you seem to think scoring wins basketball games. The Celtics have 17 banners, yet a Celtic player has never won a scoring title while in green.

AI scores a lot, he just takes a lot of posessions to do so. The list previously shown is a solid one overall, most every player on that list is does more to help his team win than AI.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2009, 09:50:02 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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AI isn't done as a player. He is just done as far as teams considering him the missing piece for a championship.

I would say this is true. At least as far as league perception goes. There are still teams, Miami for one, that ought to be pursuing him, but seemingly aren't.
Consider Miami is still mostly Wade and filler, AI would be interesting there.

As a side note, Wade is starting to annoy me. Miami mortgages the future to get him a ring a few years ago, and now he expects them to do it again before extending? No one wants to come to Miami without knowing that Wade will stay, and they don't have the resources to make many moves.
I don't blame Wade, his only leverage is right now before he extends. Most players nightmare is to get locked into a bad team that you have to carry night in and night out.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2009, 09:51:56 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Playing the victim.

Try going to practice.

Come on don't be so cynical. He may have slipped now, but last time I checked Iverson was the 3rd all time scorer in NBA. Its hard to swallow your pride when you are still better than 90% of the players in the league.

In his own mind only.

Really? The NBA has 450 players. Please name 46 current players better than Iverson.


Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Derrick Rose
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson
Devin Harris
Jose Calderon
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili
Tracy McGrady
Ben Gordon
Rip Hamilton
Vince Carter
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Joe Johnson
Eric Gordon
Ray Allen
Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Lebron James
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest
Rashard Lewis
Carmelo Anthony
Danny Granger
Tayshaun Prince
Hedo Tukoglu
Kevin Durant
Caron Butler
Al Jefferson
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Josh Smith
Kevin Garnett
Rasheed Wallace
Shaq
Big Z
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming


Took me awhile but i did it.

1) Half your list is big men.

2) Half your 1/2 guards are not better than AI.
Please name what guards on that list that are worse than AI. Other than maybe Eric Gordon I don't think you can support that position.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2009, 09:56:57 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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AI, great individual player.


To bad it is not a one on one league.  PLayers with less natural talent are better in the NBA because they can play in a team system.



I heard this yesterday and it still makes me laugh.

AI likes to play in Give and Go offense.  "Give me the ball and go to hell"

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2009, 10:18:15 AM »

Offline vagrantwade

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Playing the victim.

Try going to practice.

Come on don't be so cynical. He may have slipped now, but last time I checked Iverson was the 3rd all time scorer in NBA. Its hard to swallow your pride when you are still better than 90% of the players in the league.

In his own mind only.

Really? The NBA has 450 players. Please name 46 current players better than Iverson.


Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Derrick Rose
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson
Devin Harris
Jose Calderon
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili
Tracy McGrady
Ben Gordon
Rip Hamilton
Vince Carter
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Joe Johnson
Eric Gordon
Ray Allen
Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Lebron James
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest
Rashard Lewis
Carmelo Anthony
Danny Granger
Tayshaun Prince
Hedo Tukoglu
Kevin Durant
Caron Butler
Al Jefferson
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Josh Smith
Kevin Garnett
Rasheed Wallace
Shaq
Big Z
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming


Took me awhile but i did it.

1) Half your list is big men.

2) Half your 1/2 guards are not better than AI.
Please name what guards on that list that are worse than AI. Other than maybe Eric Gordon I don't think you can support that position.

See the problem with that is, you are a chronic AI hater clearly. Which makes that futile for me to even attempt. People will try to point to last year as some sort of reasoning as to why he is now bad.

Just like the tools who try too use Marbury's stats last year for the same point and ignore that he hadn't played in over a year.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2009, 10:19:03 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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AI, great individual player.


To bad it is not a one on one league.  PLayers with less natural talent are better in the NBA because they can play in a team system.



I heard this yesterday and it still makes me laugh.

AI likes to play in Give and Go offense.  "Give me the ball and go to hell"
tp

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2009, 10:31:22 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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AI, great individual player.


To bad it is not a one on one league.  PLayers with less natural talent are better in the NBA because they can play in a team system.



I heard this yesterday and it still makes me laugh.

AI likes to play in Give and Go offense.  "Give me the ball and go to hell"
tp
Another TP from me this morning when the karma clock runs out as I just gave you one elsewhere. Great line "give and go offense". LOL.

Re: Allen Iverson Chokes Up
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2009, 11:08:12 AM »

Offline Eja117

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Playing the victim.

Try going to practice.

Come on don't be so cynical. He may have slipped now, but last time I checked Iverson was the 3rd all time scorer in NBA. Its hard to swallow your pride when you are still better than 90% of the players in the league.

In his own mind only.

Really? The NBA has 450 players. Please name 46 current players better than Iverson.


Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Chauncey Billups
Derrick Rose
Mo Williams
Jameer Nelson
Devin Harris
Jose Calderon
Tony Parker
Gilbert Arenas
Manu Ginobili
Tracy McGrady
Ben Gordon
Rip Hamilton
Vince Carter
Kobe Bryant
Dwyane Wade
Joe Johnson
Eric Gordon
Ray Allen
Brandon Roy
Andre Iguodala
Lebron James
Paul Pierce
Ron Artest
Rashard Lewis
Carmelo Anthony
Danny Granger
Tayshaun Prince
Hedo Tukoglu
Kevin Durant
Caron Butler
Al Jefferson
Amare Stoudemire
Tim Duncan
Chris Bosh
Dirk Nowitzki
Pau Gasol
Carlos Boozer
Josh Smith
Kevin Garnett
Rasheed Wallace
Shaq
Big Z
Dwight Howard
Yao Ming


Took me awhile but i did it.
AI's better than most on there

Well we could have a big practice where he could prove that, but he'd never show up