25 Greatest Celtics of All-Time : #8

[Truck Lewis]

The minute I start seeing Antoine Walker votes, I quit.

Ainge is already starting to get votes and guys like Frank Ramsay, Bill Sharman, Dave Cowens, Sam Jones, KC Jones(who BTW might be the third greatest defensive player in Celtic history behind Hondo and McHale, my guess is the younger guys probably don't know that), Ed Macauley, Cedric Maxwell, Satch Sanders and Jo Jo White still haven't been voted in. That's a travesty.

nick,,,i am a younger guy,,,,and i was just about to write the same thing as you.....Ainge has no business being mentioned...he'd be lucky to crack the top 25 c's all time

and if people are going to argue for his contributions as GM...we need to start over and put Red #1


edit: i wouldnt put ainge even close to dj or parish either...or over reggie for that matter

[hardlyyardley]

not to play the senior citizen card, but bill sharman was an incredible player

my vote

cowens
sam
sharman

[jax_celtsfan]

9.  Cowens
10. Sam Jones
11. Robert Parish

[jv2764]

Sam Jones
Dave Cowens
JoJo White

[Casperian]

The minute I start seeing Antoine Walker votes, I quit.

 

I hate to break it to you, but I think Antoine will inevitably make the list.
At #20 - #25, we´re entering Bill Walton territory. Considering how many hardcore fans Walker has until this day, it wouldn´t surprise me to see him on the final list. Even KG could make the list after two seasons with 1 championship and a DPOY.

[nickagneta]

Reggie Lewis
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
Jo Jo White
Bill Sharman
Frank Ramsey
Cedric Maxwell
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Don Nelson
Ed Macauley
Don Chaney
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen

So we have 8 in place and here are 16 that I think probably all belong in front of Walker so I guess you're right. He should probably be about 25th.

[Hoyo de Monterrey]

Reggie Lewis
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
Jo Jo White
Bill Sharman
Frank Ramsey
Cedric Maxwell
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Don Nelson
Ed Macauley
Don Chaney
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen

So we have 8 in place and here are 16 that I think probably all belong in front of Walker so I guess you're right. He should probably be about 25th.

Nick, any thought on Loscutoff?? I personally thought he should be there, but I have a soft spot for effective hustle guys who know their role and accept it for the team.

[nickagneta]

Reggie Lewis
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
Jo Jo White
Bill Sharman
Frank Ramsey
Cedric Maxwell
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Don Nelson
Ed Macauley
Don Chaney
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen

So we have 8 in place and here are 16 that I think probably all belong in front of Walker so I guess you're right. He should probably be about 25th.

Nick, any thought on Loscutoff?? I personally thought he should be there, but I have a soft spot for effective hustle guys who know their role and accept it for the team.

I think Loscy might be in the top ten most beloved Celtics because he was so easy to like but I don't think he belongs on this list.

[Roy Hobbs]

Reggie Lewis
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
Jo Jo White
Bill Sharman
Frank Ramsey
Cedric Maxwell
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Don Nelson
Ed Macauley
Don Chaney
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen

So we have 8 in place and here are 16 that I think probably all belong in front of Walker so I guess you're right. He should probably be about 25th.

Antoine over Archibald?

[nickagneta]

Reggie Lewis
Sam Jones
KC Jones
Satch Sanders
Jo Jo White
Bill Sharman
Frank Ramsey
Cedric Maxwell
Robert Parish
Dennis Johnson
Danny Ainge
Don Nelson
Ed Macauley
Don Chaney
Kevin Garnett
Ray Allen

So we have 8 in place and here are 16 that I think probably all belong in front of Walker so I guess you're right. He should probably be about 25th.

Antoine over Archibald?

I knew there had to be someone!!! TP thanks Roy!!! Great, now there's no reason to ever have to see Antoine's name mentioned on these lists.

WOW!!! That really made my day!!

[Redz]

The minute I start seeing Antoine Walker votes, I quit.

 

I hate to break it to you, but I think Antoine will inevitably make the list.
At #20 - #25, we´re entering Bill Walton territory. Considering how many hardcore fans Walker has until this day, it wouldn´t surprise me to see him on the final list. Even KG could make the list after two seasons with 1 championship and a DPOY.

This could be just the kind of positive PR we need for our Bring Back Toine campaign. 

[tenn_smoothie]

just came upon this thread ...........

i suppose you've heard plenty of argument and criticism already, but how you guys can put Dave Cowens in 8th place is beyond me. He is clearly the 3d most important player in franchise history.

i guess there are too many young voters here.

[paintitgreen]

Totally agree Cowens is too low, but 3rd? I think 5th after Cousy and Hondo. But as I said when I hyped up KG (I'm sure you'd disagree on KG being as high as I want him), there have been 16 championship teams and only 5-6 guys who have been the best players on those teams (Cousy, Russell, maybe Havlicek, Cowens, Bird and now Garnett). So to me Cowens is top 5. The 70s teams get totally lost in the shuffle. The 4 year stretch from 73 to 76 was not that far off from the 4 year stretch from 84 to 87, but 5 80s guys made the top 15 and only 3 70s guys did. The late 50s/60s Celtics deserve to dominate, since they won 11 of our 17 titles, but the 70s team gets overlooked because the NBA was arguably weaker in that era with the ABA competition.

[tenn_smoothie]

Totally agree Cowens is too low, but 3rd? I think 5th after Cousy and Hondo. But as I said when I hyped up KG (I'm sure you'd disagree on KG being as high as I want him), there have been 16 championship teams and only 5-6 guys who have been the best players on those teams (Cousy, Russell, maybe Havlicek, Cowens, Bird and now Garnett). So to me Cowens is top 5. The 70s teams get totally lost in the shuffle. The 4 year stretch from 73 to 76 was not that far off from the 4 year stretch from 84 to 87, but 5 80s guys made the top 15 and only 3 70s guys did. The late 50s/60s Celtics deserve to dominate, since they won 11 of our 17 titles, but the 70s team gets overlooked because the NBA was arguably weaker in that era with the ABA competition.

i'm pretty much with you Green - i too hold kevin garnett in high esteem. his only problem is such a short time with the franchise. that could change if he finishes up here and adds another banner or two.

i put dave cowens at my #3 because he was the pillar around which the 70's championship group revolved ...... just like russell in the 60's and bird in the 80's - and really now somewhat garnett in the 2000's.

havlicek is my #4 celtic ..... he was the great lieutenant to russell and cowens (much like pierce to garnett). but without russell and cowens, havlicek doesn't see any titles. as great as havlicek was, cowens was the more talented player and a league mvp in 1973 - like you said ...... people somehow have forgotten the 70's. cowens was a phenomenal player - in his prime, he outplayed jabbar regularly.

your statement that "the 70s team gets overlooked because the NBA was arguably weaker in that era" is another misnomer by the modern fan. i sure wouldn't describe the nba as weaker in the 1970's - you had four great teams competing for the title every year - celtics, lakers, bucks, knicks early in the decade and then four more very good teams that devloped later - sixers, blazers, warriors, bullets. it was only in the final two seasons ('78 & '79) that the league did weaken and produce good but not great champions (though i was happy for wes unseld).

[paintitgreen]

Yeah, my bad, I didn't mean to disparage the 70s NBA or particularly the 70s Celtics - I think it's unfair that the Celtics of the 70s get cast aside so much. 238-90 (a .748 winning percentage), 2 championships and 4 Eastern Conference Finals appearances between 72-73 and 75-76. Franchise record 68 wins in 72-73 before getting upset in 7 by the Knicks (who went on to beat the Lakers in 5 in the Finals) in large part because of a Havlicek injury in an early series game. They won the greatest NBA game ever played in 76. And yet they're kind of an afterthought, as are their stars.

Dennis Johnson played in Boston for 7 years, 5 of them at a high level, won 2 championships, made one All Star team in Boston and 4 All Defensive teams (1 1st). DJ (my all time favorite Celtic because of when I grew up, so this is not a personal attack) averaged 14.1 points, 6.4 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 1.22 steals and 0.50 blocks from 83-84 to 87-88. He finished 12th in this poll, the 4th guy from the 83-87 teams on the list.

Jo Jo White played 9 1/2 years in Boston, 7 of them at a very high level, won 2 championships, was a Finals MVP, 7 time All Star and 2 time All NBA 2nd Teamer. He averaged 19.8 points, 5.5 assists, 4.6 rebounds, and 1.4 steals from 70-71 through 76-77. He finished 13th in this poll, one spot behind DJ, and was the 3rd guy from the 73-76 teams.

Paul Silas played 4 very good years in Boston, also winning 2 championships, making an All Star team in Boston and 3 All Defensive teams (2 1sts). He averaged 11.5 points and 12.3 rebounds in his 4 years. He's the fourth guy off those 70s teams. He's barely even getting mentioned in these votes at spot 17.

When I mentioned the 70s as "weaker" and referenced the ABA, I didn't mean to say it was actually my opinion. I just think that might be a reason the 70s teams are so quickly dismissed.

(For the record, in hindsight - I think I originally ranked Sharman 11th and Jo Jo 12th - I have Jo Jo 11th, DJ 14th, and Silas 19th.)