Author Topic: How did our team get so screwed up?  (Read 21099 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2009, 06:13:01 PM »

Offline greg_kite

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 851
  • Tommy Points: 71
Gee if this is screwed up I sure wish that I was so screwed up!

Go ask the GM's and fans of the 25 or so teams that have no chance to win a championship and ask them if they would like to trade positions with us. You will get 100% who can't wait.

WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!. WE ARE IN CONTENTION FOR ONE OR TWO MORE!

And on a long term note, we have a couple of young players and if Danny can manage the cap in a way that may be possible, could be a player for a younger star next year in free agency.

These are the best of times. Enjoy them.
Well said!

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2009, 06:41:09 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
The doom and gloom outlook in this thread is unhealthy. With this ownership groups dedication to winning, the ability of Danny Ainge and the coaching staff along with the acquisition to of KG, the Celtics are in a better position now "for the future" than 2 years and 5 days ago.
Amen to that.

double Amen and TP's. It always amazes me how people contend we "gave up our future" to win now.

To them i ask, what future? to many people were sold on how great all our young players were by managment (luckly, so was minnosota)

lets just take a quick look at what we had on that team, had we held onto it.


Potential all star players: al jefferson, rajon rondo, paul pierce (though unlikely to be on the team, as he would have demanded a trade)

good bench player/ can be a solid starter:  D-west, ryan gomes, perk

trash/ end of the bench: telfair, GG, wally

In my view, had we kept the 2006-07 team together, we would be a mediocre team centered around two good players in big al and rondo. Im not sure how much of a future that is.

yet people look back at that era like we were loaded with top talent that was just about to break out around al.

I would trade that uncertainty for a championship and the experience perk and rondo are getting going forward 100% of the time.



First of all, Perk isn't a good bench player, he's a good and consistent STARTER, probably the second best center in the east and still young.  Powe would be the 'could be solid starter' you were thinking of.
Two other things you've forgotten, we had the number 5 pick in the draft (and another first round i think), and trading an all star would have yielded us an all star.
Also, if we had decided to keep a young team, we wouldn't have traded for Wally (Telfair was dumb).  We also had decent young reserves in Tony Allen and Scal.  As for Gerald Gomes, don't count out the dunk champ yet.  So we probably would have kept Perk, Al, Rondo and 1-2 reserves, and been left with about 5-7 young potential all stars (perfect for teams looking to clear cap space), a number 5 pick, and two past all star vets (6 times for Pierce).  That would have given us a more than decent SG and SF and room to sign a couple of older vets (like Brown and Cassel).
Do i agree with giving that up for only 1 championship?  100 percent like you.  But don't say those kids weren't talented and didn't have a future together.  Of course we would've had much less of a chance to win in these seasons, but if those kids became something great we would've been set to win for many years to come.  But now when the big 3 are gone we're gonna end up in a serious rebuilding era, maybe for a while.  I honestly don't see how our future (3-5 years from now) is better.  Think about all the free agents coming up.  With a young very low salary team we would basically have our pick.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2009, 06:46:50 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Yes sir, however that 44 million only includes a roster of 3 guys (doesn't include the option for Rondo).  So even if you took a 12mil FA and a probably very low draft pick, you'd have no bench and you'd have lost two of the best guards in the NBA.

Your second idea is probably a better idea.  Extending Ray and Rondo are good ideas, but without a trade of our bench we still won't have decent support because our will cap only allow us to sign a Mid-Level a year, which is a risk at best, and we can't be sure we won't lose more guys to free agency.

Technically, we'd have 8 players on the roster (6 under salary, 1 max player, and the 1st rounder I allocated $1MM for).  It would require us to build the rest of the roster with the MLE, LLE, and minimum salaries as well as 2nd round picks.  

We'd be over the cap by the MLE, LLE, and minimum salary players AND if Rondo is offered a RFA deal ... that amount over his $3.7MM qualifying offer as well.

I'm simply saying that it isn't impossible to see us going down this route.   The flexibility is there. Whether we want to go down that route is another story. 

It's a way to go, but i see trading Ray for something in return
being more beneficial (not as much as keeping him though).  You'd probably still see drop in spending, and all the other contracts would still be expiring.
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2009, 07:08:17 PM »

Offline mgent

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7567
  • Tommy Points: 1962
Gee if this is screwed up I sure wish that I was so screwed up!

Go ask the GM's and fans of the 25 or so teams that have no chance to win a championship and ask them if they would like to trade positions with us. You will get 100% who can't wait.

WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!. WE ARE IN CONTENTION FOR ONE OR TWO MORE!

And on a long term note, we have a couple of young players and if Danny can manage the cap in a way that may be possible, could be a player for a younger star next year in free agency.

These are the best of times. Enjoy them.

TP

I think our dark times ('92-'07) scarred people so deeply that they don't know what to do when we have a veteran team poised to win it all and don't have a roster full of "upside" that will probably never realize its potential.  

But that's the whole point of professional sports: to win it all.  Even if we have to wait 10 years before we're good again, I'd take that and another title or two over being this decade's version of the 1990s Utah Jazz.  Because close doesn't matter, only a title does.

Also, think of it this way: if the C's win one more title with this group, they'll match what the '70s teams with Cowens/White/Havlicek did.  If they win two more titles, they'll have matched what the original Big Three have done.  The only real difference is that they'll have done it in less time.  

That's certainly not something to be down about.  

True, all that matters is winning.  But if you come close that means at least you have a chance.  If we go back to where we were we'd have no chance (especially when we aren't even making the playoffs).  So here's my question to you:  would you rather have a good chance at winning each year for this upcoming decade, or would you be satisfied with a better chance of winning for only the next 3 years and then risk dropping off back to the bottom for God knows how long?
You're right, maybe it's because i've only ever watched the celtics never come close, but at least if they can make it past the first round people won't laugh at me when i tell them my team.  I am still very optimistic about the upcoming years with the 3, i just can't help but think if we are gonna keep having bench problems each year, what's gonna happen when we have bench problems and 3 starting spots to fill?
Philly:

Anderson Varejao    Tiago Splitter    Matt Bonner
David West    Kenyon Martin    Brad Miller
Andre Iguodala    Josh Childress    Marquis Daniels
Dwyane Wade    Leandro Barbosa
Kirk Hinrich    Toney Douglas   + the legendary Kevin McHale

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2009, 07:29:21 PM »

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
It's pretty hard to look at this starting 5 and see the entire team as "screwed up."

We have definitive bench needs - needs that went unaddressed last year - but if Tanguay's right, a start toward meeting those needs might be forthcoming.

So I think I'll wait until the summer's a little older before I pronounce this team screwed up. If we start next season with Turnover Tony the only thing behind Pierce, then my concerns ratchet up a good bit.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2009, 07:34:12 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

  • Dave Cowens
  • ***********************
  • Posts: 23441
  • Tommy Points: 2525
My goodness, you sound like me as I think about sending my daughter off to college in September.  She's a great kid, hard worker, high achiever, but... what if she makes bad choices, what if her roommate is a psychopath, what if she hates being away from home(uh, probably not).  Anyway... it's often easier to fret about wilting lillies than to savor the roses while they're in bloom.  OUR ROSES ARE IN BLOOM --NOW!

Let's enjoy this run, a run that has already yielded a championship and might yet yield another.  Let Danny's cap management plan play out (there is a plan by the way -- that's the strategic aspect of RA, PP, and KG contract expirations falling in successive years).  We all knew the cap implications when the RA and KG deals were made, and we all -- save for an uninformed few -- were ecstatic.  'Over the cap' is where most NBA teams are and will be each year -- that is just NBA reality.  Most under the cap teams are not winning many games.  

Enjoy the KG era -- we are right in the middle of it.

Re: How did our team get so screwed up?
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2009, 01:36:15 AM »

Offline timepiece33

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1747
  • Tommy Points: 78
It's a way to go, but i see trading Ray for something in return
being more beneficial (not as much as keeping him though).  You'd probably still see drop in spending, and all the other contracts would still be expiring.

Depends on that something.  I acknowledge that any player should be available, but Ray is the perfect fit for this system and the spacing he creates Kevin/Paul.

Packages centering around Stephen Jackson OR Baron Davis are bleeping jokes.  The Phoenix package makes some sense.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 09:47:25 AM by timepiece33 »