How did our team get so screwed up?

[johnnyrondo]

Before this year I never really paid attention to contracts, just the players.  But now that our window is closing with the big 3, I'm all nervous because we desperately need some support if we want a good chance to get back on top.  So i take a look at our contracts and it turns out we are already like 15mil over the cap, so we can only sign 1 player.  In conclusion, this sucks.  Half of our bench doesn't even play, so i feel like we're severely disabled.  Then i take a look at the top of the list and i realized the big 3 are all being paid the league maximum.  Actually, Garnett is about 5mil over somehow.  So i add them together and it turns out just the 3 of them are over the cap for the whole team.  Why don't these guys take a freakin pay cut and help out their team?  Getting 20mil for being the league MVP is one thing, but Ray Allen barely made the all-star team.
Last year we lost Posey, Cassell, and Brown, and we gained nobody.
Now we're possibly losing Powe and Davis, and it's up to House if he wants to stay.  If we can't sign anybody, then when everyone's contracts run out we're gonna be in big trouble.  Out of the 14 guys on our roster 3 of them aren't even guaranteed, 3 of them have barely played in this league, and 1 of them is the 3rd to last draft pick.  So other than our 5 starters, that leaves Tony Allen and Scalabrine.  Danny better have something up his sleeve for 2010.  I'm looking at the page right now and we've only got about 4-5 guys guaranteed for the year after next.  It's gonna suck if everyone wants out, because it seems not many people want in.

Learn the NBA salary rules. There are no pay cuts in the NBA, unless you are talking about buyouts. A fan slightly literate about contracts knows that KG's contract was signed before max contracts, and is a major reason why shut limits were created.

The big 3 had their contracts before the big 3 were assembled. KG's 3 year extension that is now beginning decreases his pay.

No need to be so snide. The poster was just asking a question and giving an opinion. While this contract pays less than his earlier enormous one, I wouldn't say KG signed that low a deal. He still will be making around 20 million a yr for his mid thirties. Not like he's on the vet minimum.

[guava_wrench]

So my question is this.  A player signs at $8 million a year and doesn't get to the finals, or signs for $5 million a year and wins a title.  Aren't they going to make about the same amount of money, considering the possible bonuses and endorsements for winning a title?  So they may end up making about $8 million a year anyway?

Or what if a player like Wade signs for $5 million a year, he gets a few other great player around him, and now has a chance to build a dynasty.  He wins like 3 or 4 titles in a row and goes down in history as one of the great basketball dynasties of the era.  In the long run, even after Wade's career is over, people will still talk about how he was on a dynasty and won 3 or 4 in a row.  Will he end up making close to as much money as if he signed a big contract for a .500 team and never made it to the finals again for the rest of his career?

You don't know when you sign a contract whether you will win a championship. Remember Karl Malone?

[ederson]

Or what if a player like Wade signs for $5 million a year, he gets a few other great player around him, and now has a chance to build a dynasty.  He wins like 3 or 4 titles in a row and goes down in history as one of the great basketball dynasties of the era.  In the long run, even after Wade's career is over, people will still talk about how he was on a dynasty and won 3 or 4 in a row.  Will he end up making close to as much money as if he signed a big contract for a .500 team and never made it to the finals again for the rest of his career?

Wade will be a max contract player next year.
If you were him would actually consider a 5m offer from Celtics instead of a 20m from NY or Miami ? I mean they are proffesionals. The paycheck is the most important factor here (if not the only). It`s easier saying "i risk 15m/year" than doing it.

[pearljammer10]

I guess thats the price you pay to win a championship bro.

[kenmaine]

Is it bad that in about 3 years or so, I'm fully expecting us to have a top 5 lottery pick record?

I've just got that feeling.  We had our time to shine.  That time is coming to a close slowly but surely, and it'll soon be time to start over again.

What on earth are you talking about?
The C's just won over 60 games and much of it without their most important player.
PP and KG have at least a couple of good years left(I don't trust Ray Allen- when the three isn't going in, he's useless).
Rondo(PLEASE don't trade him Danny) is a top 5 pg- just my opinion.
Perk, if his shoulder doesn't shorten his career, is much better than adequate- AND, he can neutralize Howard, should Orlando stay competetive.
Leon, if he can stay healthy, is a great bench player, and capable starter.
Baby apparently wants to go wherever the money is, but if he stays, he's proven to be very good.

So no, the team is not screwed up. Could it be in a few years? Of course that's possible, but right now it's a championship caliber team.

[JSD]

The doom and gloom outlook in this thread is unhealthy. With this ownership groups dedication to winning, the ability of Danny Ainge and the coaching staff along with the acquisition to of KG, the Celtics are in a better position now "for the future" than 2 years and 5 days ago.

[RAcker]

The doom and gloom outlook in this thread is unhealthy. With this ownership groups dedication to winning, the ability of Danny Ainge and the coaching staff along with the acquisition to of KG, the Celtics are in a better position now "for the future" than 2 years and 5 days ago.

Amen to that.

[Rondo2287]

I dont think our team is screwed up.  At this point in time we have the best starting 5 in the league.  most teams would kill for 3 players with the talent of our starting 5.  Our bench is weak right now but I truly think that Danny will not let last years mistake of having a weak bench happen again.  Its like the 2006 Patriots when Brady was throwing to Caldwell as his best receiver and then the next year the Pats went out and got Moss, Welker, and Stallworth

[dark_lord]

[crownsy]

The doom and gloom outlook in this thread is unhealthy. With this ownership groups dedication to winning, the ability of Danny Ainge and the coaching staff along with the acquisition to of KG, the Celtics are in a better position now "for the future" than 2 years and 5 days ago.

Amen to that.

double Amen and TP's. It always amazes me how people contend we "gave up our future" to win now.

To them i ask, what future? to many people were sold on how great all our young players were by managment (luckly, so was minnosota)

lets just take a quick look at what we had on that team, had we held onto it.


Potential all star players: al jefferson, rajon rondo, paul pierce (though unlikely to be on the team, as he would have demanded a trade)

good bench player/ can be a solid starter:  D-west, ryan gomes, perk

trash/ end of the bench: telfair, GG, wally

In my view, had we kept the 2006-07 team together, we would be a mediocre team centered around two good players in big al and rondo. Im not sure how much of a future that is.

yet people look back at that era like we were loaded with top talent that was just about to break out around al.

I would trade that uncertainty for a championship and the experience perk and rondo are getting going forward 100% of the time.

[bobdelt]

Is it bad that in about 3 years or so, I'm fully expecting us to have a top 5 lottery pick record?

I've just got that feeling.  We had our time to shine.  That time is coming to a close slowly but surely, and it'll soon be time to start over again.

Well that should be ideal really. I'd rather go back to suckville - get in the lottery and draft some real talent and get some cap space, and rebuild.

It would worse if we get stuck in mediocrity. I dont want to be like the nets who are nevery really good but there not really terribile ever either. I dont want to be the team thats either a 7th or 8th seed, or a few games shy of the playoffs.

[Jon]

Personally, I believe trading Ray Allen for 3 second level talents is about as dumb a move as Danny can do right now.  If he leverages that contract for a great young player, that's a different story.

People act as if this is the same NBA as when Larry and Kevin existed in.  Free Agency is much more prevalent and makes that era almost irrelevant in this discussion

We have our window now.  We will have flexibility as these guys come off their contracts.  It's just a matter of "when" we want to exercise that option.  The issue that we have is that we are in reasonable cap position next year with Allen's contract coming off the books ... but moves we make now might change that point.   

I'd rather see us package Scal, Allen, and Giddens for a long term contract that can help us long term.   Josh Childress OR Corey Maggette make the most sense.

How exactly are we screwed up again?  Some of you guys overreact to everything. 

TP for you.  That's exactly the case.

People are acting like that if the C's don't trade Ray now, we're going to be doomed to the same fate we met the past 20 years, and nothing is further from the truth.  

I think ideally we should look to extend Ray (2 years) and PP (1 year) so that they both expire when KG does at the end of 2012.  I'll leave the contract numbers to Danny.  But if we do that, come the summer of 2011, we'll have three large contracts with one year left.  If it's apparent the Big Three are through, we can these expiring deals.

If not, we can try for another title in 2012.  Then in the summer of 2012, we'll have the option of renouncing all three contracts in clearing 30+ million in space or if by some act of God all three are still in top shape, trying for yet another title be re-signing them.  

And of course our options wouldn't be done there.  If we didn't like the summer FA class of 2012, we could always not sign anyone big, have a bad year, get a draft pick, and make a big FA splash in 2013.  

The point is that we have two players at the two hardest spots to fill (PG and C) that could turn out to be top 5 players at their respective positions.  We also have many more opportunities down the road to make trades or clear salaries to help the team's future.  We don't need to start planning for that future now while we have a chance to be great.  

[JSD]

The doom and gloom outlook in this thread is unhealthy. With this ownership groups dedication to winning, the ability of Danny Ainge and the coaching staff along with the acquisition to of KG, the Celtics are in a better position now "for the future" than 2 years and 5 days ago.

Amen to that.

double Amen and TP's. It always amazes me how people contend we "gave up our future" to win now.

To them i ask, what future? to many people were sold on how great all our young players were by managment (luckly, so was minnosota)

lets just take a quick look at what we had on that team, had we held onto it.


Potential all star players: al jefferson, rajon rondo, paul pierce (though unlikely to be on the team, as he would have demanded a trade)

good bench player/ can be a solid starter:  D-west, ryan gomes, perk

trash/ end of the bench: telfair, GG, wally

In my view, had we kept the 2006-07 team together, we would be a mediocre team centered around two good players in big al and rondo. Im not sure how much of a future that is.

yet people look back at that era like we were loaded with top talent that was just about to break out around al.

I would trade that uncertainty for a championship and the experience perk and rondo are getting going forward 100% of the time.

Right back at you for taking the next step in the point...

Rondo and Perk's progression alone could have made these trades worth it in the end. Nevermind that the C's acquired two HOF'ers, won a another title and restored Boston as an integrating destination for NBA players.

[Steve from Milford]

Gee if this is screwed up I sure wish that I was so screwed up!

Go ask the GM's and fans of the 25 or so teams that have no chance to win a championship and ask them if they would like to trade positions with us. You will get 100% who can't wait.

WE WON A CHAMPIONSHIP!!!. WE ARE IN CONTENTION FOR ONE OR TWO MORE!

And on a long term note, we have a couple of young players and if Danny can manage the cap in a way that may be possible, could be a player for a younger star next year in free agency.

These are the best of times. Enjoy them.

[JSD]

We have our window now.  We will have flexibility as these guys come off their contracts.  It's just a matter of "when" we want to exercise that option.  The issue that we have is that we are in reasonable cap position next year with Allen's contract coming off the books ... but moves we make now might change that point. 

 

The future flexibility is not so easy. The fact is, if Ray Allen expires as a Celtic we lose him as an asset in that he's a max expiring. The C's won't be under the cap to enable us the ability to land another. However, we can conceivable extent Rondo and resign Allen at a half the money he's making now which would be an issue if Ray wasn't expiring until 2011.