Knicks trying to trade for Rubio

[ACF]

And if they don't make any trades, well, they have Jonny Flynn, who's much more NBA ready, stepping in to take the point.

Honest question - is the conventional wisdom that Rubio isn't NBA ready. I know that he's young and slight. But it's Flynn not Ricky that's been playing against boys. I'm not worried about Rubio's readiness.

Boom, TP.

[nickagneta]

And if they don't make any trades, well, they have Jonny Flynn, who's much more NBA ready, stepping in to take the point.

Honest question - is the conventional wisdom that Rubio isn't NBA ready. I know that he's young and slight. But it's Flynn not Ricky that's been playing against boys. I'm not worried about Rubio's readiness.

Flynn played in the Big east and as much as he was playing against people 18-22 he was still playing against some of the best in the world at that age in a notoriously tough and physical league playing under American basketball rules which promote more contact through smaller lanes and no goaltending so players have to wait fighting for position longer.

Rubio was playing against men yet the Euro Leagues are littered with 18, 19, and 20 year olds and at the same time the older players he is playing against are only slightly higher quality than those at NCAA Division 1 major conference level. And they play a more wide open, non half court type of game that again limits contact.

If anything, I'd say Flynn's experience in  the Big East playing teams like Connecticut, Louisville, Marquette, Villanova, Georgetown, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and such exposed him to more competition that would play in the NBA than any Euro league would.

[Lucky17]

And if they don't make any trades, well, they have Jonny Flynn, who's much more NBA ready, stepping in to take the point.

Honest question - is the conventional wisdom that Rubio isn't NBA ready. I know that he's young and slight. But it's Flynn not Ricky that's been playing against boys. I'm not worried about Rubio's readiness.

Flynn played in the Big east and as much as he was playing against people 18-22 he was still playing against some of the best in the world at that age in a notoriously tough and physical league playing under American basketball rules which promote more contact through smaller lanes and no goaltending so players have to wait fighting for position longer.

Rubio was playing against men yet the Euro Leagues are littered with 18, 19, and 20 year olds and at the same time the older players he is playing against are only slightly higher quality than those at NCAA Division 1 major conference level. And they play a more wide open, non half court type of game that again limits contact.

If anything, I'd say Flynn's experience in  the Big East playing teams like Connecticut, Louisville, Marquette, Villanova, Georgetown, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame and such exposed him to more competition that would play in the NBA than any Euro league would.

Do they have 6 overtime games in Europe? I hear if a game over there ends in a tie, everyone shakes hands and exchanges jerseys.

[timepiece33]

Despite people overrating what Rubio is worth AND what Minnesota actually gave up to get him, I still don't understand why New York would select a player with #8 who plays a position Minnesota doesn't need.   

I can't name a worse trade partner with Minnesota.  Even if NY trades David Lee, the Timberwolves have no need for him.

Dallas?  Houston? Phoenix? Portland?

Leandro Barbosa would be a great fit in a deal.

[guava_wrench]

Honestly it makes me kind of angry that these players "refuse" to play in certain places.  I understand that for Rubio it's partially motivated by money - he really needed to be picked top 3 to get the kind of money he needs to pay off his buyout.  But besides that, I don't know who these NBA prospects think they are, acting like they have the right to pick and choose where they do and do not want to play.

I think it was Hasheem Thabeet who was saying during an interview that he's just thankful to be blessed enough to get to play in the NBA, regardless of where he's playing.  That's the attitude that these kids should have.  They are blessed.  They should play whereever they have a chance to play.  It's not their right to complain about whether they like the place they are going to or not and then threaten to refuse.

"Oh the weather is cold." "It's not a big market."  "The franchise has a losing history."

Get over it.  In ten years when you're rolling in mountains of cash and you have your face on posters in the bedrooms of children all over America you can turn up the heat all you want.

They have every right to negotiate. It is a job. They should use whatever leverage they have, so long as they give everything for whatever team they are signed to.

A drafted player has no obligation to sign a contract. If they have enough clout to force a move to a better situation, it is their career and they might as well do what is best for it.

As a fan, I am not a fan of subverting the system, but I respect the right of people to use whatever leverage they have when negotiating working conditions.

[PosImpos]

Honestly it makes me kind of angry that these players "refuse" to play in certain places.  I understand that for Rubio it's partially motivated by money - he really needed to be picked top 3 to get the kind of money he needs to pay off his buyout.  But besides that, I don't know who these NBA prospects think they are, acting like they have the right to pick and choose where they do and do not want to play.

I think it was Hasheem Thabeet who was saying during an interview that he's just thankful to be blessed enough to get to play in the NBA, regardless of where he's playing.  That's the attitude that these kids should have.  They are blessed.  They should play whereever they have a chance to play.  It's not their right to complain about whether they like the place they are going to or not and then threaten to refuse.

"Oh the weather is cold." "It's not a big market."  "The franchise has a losing history."

Get over it.  In ten years when you're rolling in mountains of cash and you have your face on posters in the bedrooms of children all over America you can turn up the heat all you want.

They have every right to negotiate. It is a job. They should use whatever leverage they have, so long as they give everything for whatever team they are signed to.

A drafted player has no obligation to sign a contract. If they have enough clout to force a move to a better situation, it is their career and they might as well do what is best for it.

As a fan, I am not a fan of subverting the system, but I respect the right of people to use whatever leverage they have when negotiating working conditions.

I'd buy that argument if I felt like playing in the NBA were really a job.

These guys play a sport which most people play for fun and get paid MILLIONS of dollars to do it.  Sure, the NBA is a business, and the players technically are employees, but don't tell me these guys are working.  Anytime you get to do something most people do for fun and get paid a ridiculous, disproportionate amount of money to do it, you can call it a job, but don't tell me you're working.  And don't complain.  Just be thankful and don't take it for granted.

That's my opinion.

[guava_wrench]

Honestly it makes me kind of angry that these players "refuse" to play in certain places.  I understand that for Rubio it's partially motivated by money - he really needed to be picked top 3 to get the kind of money he needs to pay off his buyout.  But besides that, I don't know who these NBA prospects think they are, acting like they have the right to pick and choose where they do and do not want to play.

I think it was Hasheem Thabeet who was saying during an interview that he's just thankful to be blessed enough to get to play in the NBA, regardless of where he's playing.  That's the attitude that these kids should have.  They are blessed.  They should play whereever they have a chance to play.  It's not their right to complain about whether they like the place they are going to or not and then threaten to refuse.

"Oh the weather is cold." "It's not a big market."  "The franchise has a losing history."

Get over it.  In ten years when you're rolling in mountains of cash and you have your face on posters in the bedrooms of children all over America you can turn up the heat all you want.

They have every right to negotiate. It is a job. They should use whatever leverage they have, so long as they give everything for whatever team they are signed to.

A drafted player has no obligation to sign a contract. If they have enough clout to force a move to a better situation, it is their career and they might as well do what is best for it.

As a fan, I am not a fan of subverting the system, but I respect the right of people to use whatever leverage they have when negotiating working conditions.

I'd buy that argument if I felt like playing in the NBA were really a job.

These guys play a sport which most people play for fun and get paid MILLIONS of dollars to do it.  Sure, the NBA is a business, and the players technically are employees, but don't tell me these guys are working.  Anytime you get to do something most people do for fun and get paid a ridiculous, disproportionate amount of money to do it, you can call it a job, but don't tell me you're working.  And don't complain.  Just be thankful and don't take it for granted.

That's my opinion.

It is easy to be judgmental. Especially if we are jealous of others. I have friends who play the grumpy fan role, whining about contracts being given to the individuals that make the league what it is. It is the players that bring in the revenue. They should be paid for that.

Perhaps your job sucks and you think the job of the NBA player is so much fun that they don't deserved to be paid market value. But if market value isn't the barometer for pay, what is?

Do you believe that the top actors should not have any say in what film they will be in next because they are paid so much? They should just be happy that they are getting that money?

I don't see why you should decide who should "just be thankful" for having a job. At what income level does an individual lose the right to seek the position that best fits them in their field? At what point are they forced to set aside their happiness?

Let's see how Thabeet negotiates when his rookie contract is up.

[johnnyrondo]

Ok my opinion might end up being different than most.  Rubio is not obligated to play for Minnesota. In fact he wasn't obligated to play for the Clippers orMemphis either.  And I don't like how the NBA forces it's brightest young stars to go to crappy organizations.The NBA bails out the cheapest and. Ost incompetent frAnchises with the draft system. I think you should only be eligible for a top 3 pick twice a decade. Some of these teams just use the lottery as basically some sort of welfare program. Why should the cheapest owners get rewArded? Why should the Clippers ever spend any money when it's easier and cheaper to just let players walk and continue getting the top players in the draft? That sucks IMO.
      Boston should get a top 3 pick from time to time. Boston should get an opprtunity for a rubio or grifin or Durant or rose or lebron etc. I feel like the NBA is enabling Memphis and Minnesota and the clippers and Milwaukee to keep sucking and keep rebuilding. I hated when Boston sucked and I had to root for losses so we might get Duncan or Oden or Durant. I think every team should have an equL chance at a top 3 pick. All 30 teams. And you get a max of two top 3 picks a decade, so if a team sucks they better higher a smart GM and start paying some money to bring in quality players.

Sorry for all the typos. On an iPod touch. Rant over...

[Edgar]

Honestly it makes me kind of angry that these players "refuse" to play in certain places.  I understand that for Rubio it's partially motivated by money - he really needed to be picked top 3 to get the kind of money he needs to pay off his buyout.  But besides that, I don't know who these NBA prospects think they are, acting like they have the right to pick and choose where they do and do not want to play.

I think it was Hasheem Thabeet who was saying during an interview that he's just thankful to be blessed enough to get to play in the NBA, regardless of where he's playing.  That's the attitude that these kids should have.  They are blessed.  They should play whereever they have a chance to play.  It's not their right to complain about whether they like the place they are going to or not and then threaten to refuse.

"Oh the weather is cold." "It's not a big market."  "The franchise has a losing history."

Get over it.  In ten years when you're rolling in mountains of cash and you have your face on posters in the bedrooms of children all over America you can turn up the heat all you want.

They have every right to negotiate. It is a job. They should use whatever leverage they have, so long as they give everything for whatever team they are signed to.

A drafted player has no obligation to sign a contract. If they have enough clout to force a move to a better situation, it is their career and they might as well do what is best for it.

As a fan, I am not a fan of subverting the system, but I respect the right of people to use whatever leverage they have when negotiating working conditions.

I'd buy that argument if I felt like playing in the NBA were really a job.

These guys play a sport which most people play for fun and get paid MILLIONS of dollars to do it.  Sure, the NBA is a business, and the players technically are employees, but don't tell me these guys are working.  Anytime you get to do something most people do for fun and get paid a ridiculous, disproportionate amount of money to do it, you can call it a job, but don't tell me you're working.  And don't complain.  Just be thankful and don't take it for granted.

That's my opinion.

It is easy to be judgmental. Especially if we are jealous of others. I have friends who play the grumpy fan role, whining about contracts being given to the individuals that make the league what it is. It is the players that bring in the revenue. They should be paid for that.

Perhaps your job sucks and you think the job of the NBA player is so much fun that they don't deserved to be paid market value. But if market value isn't the barometer for pay, what is?

Do you believe that the top actors should not have any say in what film they will be in next because they are paid so much? They should just be happy that they are getting that money?

I don't see why you should decide who should "just be thankful" for having a job. At what income level does an individual lose the right to seek the position that best fits them in their field? At what point are they forced to set aside their happiness?

Let's see how Thabeet negotiates when his rookie contract is up.

\greg oden

[johnnyrondo]

Again sorry for all the typos in my last post. On an iPod touch. No excuse for how I spelled hire though. Lol

[timepiece33]

People that do this get branded, but it is their right. It took a long time before I didn't view John Elway as a spoiled brat and I view Eli Manning in a negative manner still. 

I have no qualms with rookies being allocated.  IMO, it is no different than a company hiring a guy and choosing what division to place him in.   Like it or not, there are probably 20 or so franchises artificially maintained by the design.   

Ultimately, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Timberwolves ask for Danilo Gallinari.  I know his father played with D'Antonio ... but he seems to be a reasonable fit. He plays a position of need AND had a similar rating to Rubio coming out last year.

[PosImpos]

This isn't about jealousy, and this isn't about money.

I don't expect anybody to set aside their happiness or anything, but when I see NBA players acting spoiled and entitled when they are blessed to be in the position they are in - to make millions of dollars doing something that is essentially for fun and entertainment - it annoys me.

I understand why professional athletes and movie stars make millions of dollars.  I'm over it.  Good for them.  I'm not saying they ought to make less.  Sports are a business, just like the movies, and the people involved get paid market value, which happens to be very high in our entertainment-driven culture.  That doesn't mean I think actors and athletes are entitled to have the same attitude about their "careers" than regular working stiffs who actually do work and make a middle-class living (or worse).

All I'm saying is if somebody is blessed with good fortune they should be thankful for it and make the best of it, not get high on themselves, act entitled, and lose sight of the fact that they're just freakishly gifted athletes playing a game for an audience.

So how does this apply to the Rubio situation?  He's a basketball player, and he wanted to play in the NBA.  He's been given the opportunity to do so, and assuming his buyout is negotiated, he stands to make quite a bit of money doing so - regardless of where he plays.  So no, I don't really think he has the right to make demands or refuse to play for certain teams or any of that nonsense. 

The way our league works means the best young talents often have to play on crappy teams when they come into the league.  That's life.  At least they can still play and have the prospect of a wonderful career ahead of them.  I'm not saying Rubio should forgo his happiness and play in Minnesota even if he hates it.  I'm saying Rubio should be happy to play in Minnesota for millions of dollars, because it's not an opportunity 99.9% of us get.  Ever.

[PosImpos]

Ok my opinion might end up being different than most.  Rubio is not obligated to play for Minnesota. In fact he wasn't obligated to play for the Clippers orMemphis either.  And I don't like how the NBA forces it's brightest young stars to go to crappy organizations.The NBA bails out the cheapest and. Ost incompetent frAnchises with the draft system. I think you should only be eligible for a top 3 pick twice a decade. Some of these teams just use the lottery as basically some sort of welfare program. Why should the cheapest owners get rewArded? Why should the Clippers ever spend any money when it's easier and cheaper to just let players walk and continue getting the top players in the draft? That sucks IMO.
      Boston should get a top 3 pick from time to time. Boston should get an opprtunity for a rubio or grifin or Durant or rose or lebron etc. I feel like the NBA is enabling Memphis and Minnesota and the clippers and Milwaukee to keep sucking and keep rebuilding. I hated when Boston sucked and I had to root for losses so we might get Duncan or Oden or Durant. I think every team should have an equL chance at a top 3 pick. All 30 teams. And you get a max of two top 3 picks a decade, so if a team sucks they better higher a smart GM and start paying some money to bring in quality players.

Sorry for all the typos. On an iPod touch. Rant over...

This is how it has to be.  Otherwise, there wouldn't be any fans paying attention to the terrible teams, because at least now those fans can hope for a great player to come in through the lottery and save the franchise.  If that hope didn't exist, the worst teams in the league would cease to exist because they would simply hemorrhage money (and many of them aren't even making money right now).

Tell me how you'd like this scenario:

The Lakers just won the 2009 NBA Championship thanks to a combination of a great player (Kobe), a ridiculously lopsided trade from last season (Pau), and a slew of injuries to key players on the best teams in the league (Nelson, Garnett, McGrady, Yao, Duncan, Ginobli etc). 

Then, the lottery comes around and bam! the Lakers win the lottery, netting the number 1 pick.  Next year they get to start Blake Griffin alongside Kobe and Pau Gasol, ensuring their franchise's dominance for years to come.

Yeah, that sounds awesome to me.

Also, you could probably kiss our 2008 championship trophy goodbye under your system, because we might never have gotten the top picks necessary to make the trades for Ray and Garnett.  Heck, we may never have drafted Pierce either.

[johnnyrondo]

None of the picks or players we traded were top 3 picks. Pierce Was picked 10th. the last time the celtics had the 1st pick was in the 70's.  2nd pick was even longer ago. Bias was the sonic pick you recall. We had the number 3 pick once and took billups.

If the draft was as I proposed I doubt the lakers would have gasol. He was traded for the exact reason I complained About. Memphis could trade him to save money and fall back on sucking more and thus getting mayo and thabeet in consecutive lotteries. No accountability for cheapness and stupidity. They keep getting do overs and top players are forced to go there. Good for rubio for avoiding that disSter franchise. And good for fans for not having to see him wAsted there. 

[nickagneta]

None of the picks or players we traded were top 3 picks. Pierce Was picked 10th. the last time the celtics had the 1st pick was in the 70's.  2nd pick was even longer ago. Bias was the sonic pick you recall. We had the number 3 pick once and took billups.

If the draft was as I proposed I doubt the lakers would have gasol. He was traded for the exact reason I complained About. Memphis could trade him to save money and fall back on sucking more and thus getting mayo and thabeet in consecutive lotteries. No accountability for cheapness and stupidity. They keep getting do overs and top players are forced to go there. Good for rubio for avoiding that disSter franchise. And good for fans for not having to see him wAsted there. 

Just as an aside and not to be a nitpick but the last time the Celtics had the #1 pick was 1981 when they traded that pick to Golden State for the #3 pick(Kevin McHale0 and Robert Parish.