Knicks trying to trade for Rubio

[KungPoweChicken]

New York has nothing that I would want. But, if I were forced to make a deal, I would want Chandler or Lee and two first round, unprotected picks.

[winsomme]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

[PosImpos]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

That's actually an interesting possibility.  Portland has a lot of young pieces with potential they could move for Rubio and not be much worse for it.  They also could use a great point guard (even though they're supposedly getting Hinrich). 

They also have some players at positions of need for the Wolves.

[winsomme]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

That's actually an interesting possibility.  Portland has a lot of young pieces with potential they could move for Rubio and not be much worse for it.  They also could use a great point guard (even though they're supposedly getting Hinrich). 

They also have some players at positions of need for the Wolves.

yeah, I can't really think of another team that fits the bill...maybe GS?

for POR, if they move for Hinrich, that would pretty much take them out of the running too and the price for Hinrich would be much less.

the price for Rubio might have to include Oden, which would be a major turn of events...

the price for Hinrich is probably more like Rudy Fernandez, Batum, Outlaw, Webster type guys...

I also could see the Minny GM trying to play hardball and refusing to trade him...especially considering getting Rubio was the whole reason behind trading for the #5 pick and that Kahn has stated publicly that he believes Rubio is a "transformative" caliber of player.

I don't know. I think drafting Rubio and Flynn and then playing hardball with Rubio's agent could backfire.

I'm just not sure how unwilling Rubio is to play in Minny. I hope we get some reports about that soon.

[PosImpos]

Honestly it makes me kind of angry that these players "refuse" to play in certain places.  I understand that for Rubio it's partially motivated by money - he really needed to be picked top 3 to get the kind of money he needs to pay off his buyout.  But besides that, I don't know who these NBA prospects think they are, acting like they have the right to pick and choose where they do and do not want to play.

I think it was Hasheem Thabeet who was saying during an interview that he's just thankful to be blessed enough to get to play in the NBA, regardless of where he's playing.  That's the attitude that these kids should have.  They are blessed.  They should play whereever they have a chance to play.  It's not their right to complain about whether they like the place they are going to or not and then threaten to refuse.

"Oh the weather is cold." "It's not a big market."  "The franchise has a losing history."

Get over it.  In ten years when you're rolling in mountains of cash and you have your face on posters in the bedrooms of children all over America you can turn up the heat all you want.

[Cman]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

Yes.  This is why I thought the "rumor" of the Greg Oden trade actually made some sense....

[paintitgreen]

While it's not ideal, I don't think Minnesota has a problem with Rubio staying overseas two more years - in fact, I personally think it's great for them. He's not NBA ready right now, so he can take two years (when he's still only 19 and 20) to develop in a much better professional league than the NBDL. Minnesota doesn't have to pay him while he's over there so they save cash and hold onto Rubio's rights. And if they don't make any trades, well, they have Jonny Flynn, who's much more NBA ready, stepping in to take the point.  

So they get two years of development for Rubio without having to pay him the $5 mil or whatever they'd have to pay under the rookie scale. And when he comes over, he's a 20 year old, more polished, NBA-ready player under their control for up to four years, instead of (if he stayed here those 2 years) probably a less polished (due to less development) player only under their control for only 2 more years. Under the present scenario, he'll be making manageable money when Love becomes due for an extension, so they can stagger money better. And they've got two years of experience for Jonny Flynn, during which time he has ideally driven up his trade value.

So best case scenario, they'll have, in two years, a quality NBA point guard (either one), plus another to include in a trade to fill in other missing parts around what should be a solid frontcourt core (Al and Love, if Corey Brewer comes along) entering/in their primes. Worst case scenario, Rubio and Flynn both flop - but that's the same worst case scenario as if Rubio stays. And the best case scenario if Rubio stays is you have two point guards fighting for playing time only under their control for 2 more years, instead of one for 2 years and one for 4. If the worst case scenarios are the same, I'm happy taking the better best case scenario.

As for the "dumb" trade by Minnesota giving up OJ Mayo - they traded Mayo for Miller and Love. Miller got them Rubio. So they basically just got Ricky Rubio and Kevin Love for OJ Mayo and Randy Foye. I'd take that deal, personally. A real point guard and a very good big man for a very good scorer who dominates the ball but isn't a point guard and a small guy who's at best a third guard.

[Gainesville Celtic]

How stupid would Minnesota be for trading Rubio for New york's garbage? While we're on the subject, the two point guard thing was stupid. They should have taken Curry, who at least has the ability to play off of Rubio.

How does Minny still have any fans? They traded OJ last year, and now they are going to trade Rubio? Just get it over with and trade Jefferson for a bag of chips and a diet Pepsi. What good are the T-wolves? All I see is the clippers in a hideous blue uniform.

Don't forget Brandon Roy for Foye!

[bobdelt]

Who stupid is MN for trading for that pick to get Rubio?

Foye and Miller for a guy who wont play for you.

Rubio is an ass clown. I would be livid if we traded for him and he decided to stay in Spain.

[paintitgreen]

How stupid would Minnesota be for trading Rubio for New york's garbage? While we're on the subject, the two point guard thing was stupid. They should have taken Curry, who at least has the ability to play off of Rubio.

How does Minny still have any fans? They traded OJ last year, and now they are going to trade Rubio? Just get it over with and trade Jefferson for a bag of chips and a diet Pepsi. What good are the T-wolves? All I see is the clippers in a hideous blue uniform.

Don't forget Brandon Roy for Foye!

Now that one was crazy stupid. When you put it in as Brandon Roy and OJ Mayo for Rubio and Love, then obviously it's a horrific overall trade unless Rubio does turn out to be Nash.

[BballTim]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

  Miller's not that young and I don't think he was in Minny's future plans.

[The Walker Wiggle]

I'd want Chandler and Lee (agreed to an extension) and a future pick or maybe Nate instead of the pick.

TP. That ought to be Minnesota's asking price. Only problem is that NY can't deal a pick prior to 2012...

Yeah, I can't really think of another team that fits the bill...maybe GS?

To me Golden State would be an ideal trade partner. Clearly the argument against any Rubio to the Warriors deal is that if Kahn liked Stephen Curry he simply would've selected him 6th. (And if he'd done that fans in Minnesota would still be carrying him around on their shoulders this afternoon.) But, a swap of Rubio for Curry and Wright could make sense for both teams.

Although, this is if you accept the premise of trading Rubio, which I don't. He's simply too good a prospect, and the risk of looking foolish is too high.

[timepiece33]

How about Gallinaro? 

[The Walker Wiggle]

And if they don't make any trades, well, they have Jonny Flynn, who's much more NBA ready, stepping in to take the point.

Honest question - is the conventional wisdom that Rubio isn't NBA ready. I know that he's young and slight. But it's Flynn not Ricky that's been playing against boys. I'm not worried about Rubio's readiness.

So they get two years of development for Rubio without having to pay him the $5 mil or whatever they'd have to pay under the rookie scale.

What would be the cap hold for the 5th pick in that scenario? High I'd expect.

Worst case scenario, Rubio and Flynn both flop - but that's the same worst case scenario as if Rubio stays.

Wouldn't the worst case scenario involve either stunting the development of both? Watching Rubio flourish overseas,  refusing to ever join the Timberwolves. Or, maybe most likely, being pressured this off season into dealing Rubio for a package as modest as Nate Robinson and Jordan Hill?

But here is why I REALLY hate the Flynn selection. Even if one concedes that he was the BPA (I don't) and that he can flourish alongside or behind Rubio (I don't), what is the downside to swapping picks with New York in this scenario? When there is no risk that Flynn is equally high on Golden State's draft board. Even if the worst offer you can force from Walsh is future 2nd round picks and $3 million in cash considerations. Why leave that on the table? You'd also benefit from the cap implications of drafting Johnny two selections later, and that's at minimum. More likely you'd be able to wrest Wilson Chandler, or another player from New York when the temptation to draft D'Antoni's favorite player in front of a home town crowd became too great for the Knicks' front office. That's the 1b reason Kahn struck out last night. And nobody is talking about it. No?

[winsomme]

what do the Knicks have that is better than Foye and Miller - which is essentially what Minny gave up for Rubio?

and how many teams that could trade for Rubio have the right mixture of:

young pieces better than Foye and Miller
a need at PG
a place where Rubio will agree to play

the only one I can think of is POR.

  Miller's not that young and I don't think he was in Minny's future plans.

well, that's not what I meant exactly. I'm just saying that they are going to be looking for young pieces in return for Rubio and they need to be better than the players they sent out for the #5 pick or the trade doesn't make sense....

trading a package of Randy Foye and Miller, for instance doesn't seem to make much sense to get back Wilson Chandler and Jordan Hill (plus the relatively heavy contracts they had to take on from Washington)