Further Report From Chad Ford

[ctrey]

This trade Rondo stuff is now completely out of control. From Chad Ford at around 1am EST.


 The Rajon Rondo trade talk is still alive despite Danny Ainge's attempts at spin control. In speaking to the media on Tuesday, Ainge was pretty adamant that if they traded Rondo, it would be because it would make their team better and not because of any problems they have with Rondo.

I'm not sure I totally buy that. Rondo was the best player for the Celtics in the playoffs, a triple-double machine and the bridge between their present and their future. How does trading Rondo away make the Celtics better?

I'm more persuaded by what several league sources told me about Doc Rivers' relationship with Rondo. They say Rivers has told them that Rondo is "impossible to coach" and "stubborn." The worry is that if the Celtics give him a big contract extension next year, he'll be even more unmanageable in the future. So the Celtics are trying to trade him now, while his trade value is high, to avoid a very difficult decision a year from now.

Given that, a couple of potential trade scenarios come to mind. These are not rumors, just hypotheticals.

What about San Antonio's Tony Parker, Roger Mason and Matt Bonner for Ray Allen and Rondo? The Celtics would get another young championship point guard and the Spurs would get a new backcourt capable of winning a title, as we've seen.

Or, what about Memphis' Mike Conley and the No. 2 pick for Rondo? Conley isn't Rondo, but he's young and improving and the Celtics could get their man -- Tyreke Evans -- with the second pick?

This just seems like there is too much smoke at this point to not have some fire.

[Tradetime]

Can't see us swigning a deal with the Spurs; we may be meeting them in the finals with the team they have right now.

I could still see a deal with Detroit or Phoenix. Possibly Memphis.

[PosImpos]

Man, how ridiculously stacked would the Spurs be if we traded Rondo and Ray to them?

Rondo
Ray
Jefferson
FA Big
Tim Duncan

Manu
Finley
Hill
etc.

[johnnyrondo]

If we trade Rondo for the #2 pick and select Tyreke Evans, I'm going to throw up. Tyreke Evans can't hold Rondo's jock.

[PosImpos]

If we trade Rondo for the #2 pick and select Tyreke Evans, I'm going to throw up. Tyreke Evans can't hold Rondo's jock.

Yeah.  Only player we should take with the #2 is Rubio.  I still wouldn't like it because it'd be a significant downgrade now but at least we could look forward to some really spectacular passes and him becoming possibly the next Pete Maravich / Steve Nash.

[timepiece33]

If we trade Rondo for the #2 pick and select Tyreke Evans, I'm going to throw up. Tyreke Evans can't hold Rondo's jock.

Yeah.  Only player we should take with the #2 is Rubio.  I still wouldn't like it because it'd be a significant downgrade now but at least we could look forward to some really spectacular passes and him becoming possibly the next Pete Maravich / Steve Nash.

While I believe that Rubio can be a reasonable #2 pick, he can't shoot and doesn't have nearly the physical tools that Rondo has. 

Comparing him to Maravich sounds a lot like the comparisons of Jianlian to Kevin Garnett.   Being physically similar to a player doesn't mean you have that level of skill.

I'd hate that deal.  I believe that Conley is overpaid and the #2 pick in this draft isn't all that impressive.   

Ford is leaching onto this, because it is an entertaining story ... but I'll be physically sick to my stomach if we make this deal.

[Evantime34]

What about Golden State as a destination for Ray and/or the Clippers as a destination for Rondo?

[johnnyrondo]

Listening to the Simmons/Ford podcast right now, they're both gushing about Rubio. There will be a few GM's very embarrassed in a few yrs that they past on Rubio.

[greenwise]

I'm more persuaded by what several league sources told me about Doc Rivers' relationship with Rondo. They say Rivers has told them that Rondo is "impossible to coach" and "stubborn." The worry is that if the Celtics give him a big contract extension next year, he'll be even more unmanageable in the future.

This is quite worrying. If it is true (no reason to believe it isn't) then I think Danny is doing a good job trying to find a destination for Rajon. I guess we are looking to trade Rondo for attitude (+ contract extension worry) and Ray for strictly financial decisions.

[PosImpos]

If we trade Rondo for the #2 pick and select Tyreke Evans, I'm going to throw up. Tyreke Evans can't hold Rondo's jock.

Yeah.  Only player we should take with the #2 is Rubio.  I still wouldn't like it because it'd be a significant downgrade now but at least we could look forward to some really spectacular passes and him becoming possibly the next Pete Maravich / Steve Nash.

Comparing him to Maravich sounds a lot like the comparisons of Jianlian to Kevin Garnett.   Being physically similar to a player doesn't mean you have that level of skill.

Yeah, except it's not just that they are similar physically.  Rubio is a truly gifted passer - that can't be disputed.  He actually shot fairly well from 3 this last season, by all accounts, and he's still young so the shooting can still come to him. 

Count me in as a Rubio believer.  Maybe he won't be as great as Maravich or Nash, but I think he'll definitely be at the least a very solid pg with some highlight-reel passing skills.

[johnnyrondo]

I agree. Rubio is a much better player already than Jianlian, and several years younger. He may not be Maravich, but he's going to be a top 5 pg in the NBA's near future (with CP3, Williams, Rose, and Rondo)

[Roy Hobbs]

From the Bill Simmons "BS report", Simmons and Ford both seemed to be speculating that it was an attitude issue.  However, I'm not sure that either had any inside info. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?id=4281524

[winsomme]

From the Bill Simmons "BS report", Simmons and Ford both seemed to be speculating that it was an attitude issue.  However, I'm not sure that either had any inside info. 

http://sports.espn.go.com/stations/player?id=4281524

I think for the media "attitude problem" is a juicier story.

why is it in Ford's report he says it's either "attitude" or "make the team better"

aren't they leaving out the most likely reason, "selling high on Rondo before he's due a big money extension.."

and don't "league sources" not from the Cs have a vested interest in driving down the value of Rondo around the league.

how would a league source know that Doc and/or Danny thinks Rondo is uncoachable?

wouldn't it be pretty strange of them to go around telling "league sources" that if they're trying to trade him...?

I'm sure Danny is pretty frustrated right now at how this story is playing out in the media. If i was him, I would either make a move fast (if he really is wanting to move Rondo) or just go way overboard to shut this down (even if he only is putting out feelers or "kicking the tires" as we like to say..)

[Neurotic Guy]

I'm more persuaded by what several league sources told me about Doc Rivers' relationship with Rondo. They say Rivers has told them that Rondo is "impossible to coach" and "stubborn." The worry is that if the Celtics give him a big contract extension next year, he'll be even more unmanageable in the future.

This is quite worrying. If it is true (no reason to believe it isn't) then I think Danny is doing a good job trying to find a destination for Rajon. I guess we are looking to trade Rondo for attitude (+ contract extension worry) and Ray for strictly financial decisions.

Obviously, if this is true then trading Rondo makes sense.  However, what bothers me -- and bothers me a lot -- is that I really cannot believe that Doc, even as candid a guy as he is, would EVER spread this around and use the phrase "impossible to coach". 

Using "stubborn" I can see, but what possible benefit would there be for Doc to say he is impossible to coach?  It would be plain stupid to refer to Rondo in that way to anyone around the league/media, and I do not believe Doc is stupid, nor do I believe he is impulsive enough to let a statement like that just slip out. 

It would immediately hurt Rondo's trade value if a coach as highly regarded around the league as Doc said something that definitive and negative about his player.  I am not saying that I don't believe Rondo is impossible to coach (I have no idea), I just don't buy that Doc said it in this way.
 

[celticinorlando]

i think a lot of vets plus doc put some of the playoff losses on rondo...from getting to the game late to some of the bonehead plays he made. yes he played well is stretches but played poorly in others....if boston could get rudy gay and the 2 pick for rondo, scal and tony wow...if what doc said was true then rondo must be an issue in the lockerroom