Author Topic: This is how I see draft night going down  (Read 8680 times)

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This is how I see draft night going down
« on: June 16, 2009, 07:20:08 PM »

Offline screwedupmaniac

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There has been all sorts of speculation and rumors about all sorts of different players and teams' draft picks. We have all acknowledged that smoke = fire, so it appears that something is in the works. Ray Allen has been a great player and a class act for the Celtics organization, but his good days left are numbered, and the most important part of his value for us is his expiring contract.

The three teams that seem to have come up the most in rumors are the Celtics, Grizzlies, and Suns. We all know the different rumors that have flown around.

Anyways, Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker have reportedly been dangled to Memphis for the #2 pick. This hasn't made sense to us the fan base, as it appears that we would trade the cornerstone of our defense for a young talent that won't help us for a long time. However, we were all baffled when we traded for Ray Allen on draft night, and the reason we were baffled is because the other shoe named KG had not yet dropped.

The other rumor that has been floated out there is Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire. This rumor started in Arizona and quickly floated its way east to the Celtics fanbase and media. We panicked at the idea of trading our valuable backcourt for Amare, and rightfully so. It is my belief that there have been discussions and that the Suns brought up Rajon Rondo's name, but that the Celtics labelled Rondo as off limits to them. However, it seems that Danny wouldn't give up, but would rather extend a potential counter offer.

I say all of that to lay the foundation for how I see draft night (and the days surrounding it) unfolding. Let's start with Boston and Memphis.

Boston trades Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker for the #2 pick and filler contracts.

Looks pretty terrible by itself. It gives Memphis a young, cheap, defensive minded center that has experience winning, and a young, inexperienced, but talented and potential filled player in Bill Walker. It gives us a pick in what is viewed as a mediocre draft outside of the number 1 pick, and makes our front court apparently disappear.

However, what we don't realize is that Danny's intention is not to keep the draft pick, but to turn it around and combine the draft pick with Ray Allen's expiring contract for Amare Stoudemire. We get what is still a relatively young 20 and 10 player with much talent on both sides of the floor for an aging shooter and the #2 pick in the draft. This gives Phoenix exactly what it needs: cap relief and a young talent for rebuilding. I would imagine the Suns would draft Rubio to train behind Steve Nash, as I can see many similarities in the way that they are both able to run a team, and Nash's remaining good days are numbered.

What I just thought of as I was typing up this last part is also the idea of Phoenix potentially buying Ray Allen out of the last year of his contract, saving the Suns a little more money and allowing him to return to us for cheap to make a strong run at Banner 18. This is the only part of all of this that I am not so sure about, but find exciting just thinking about haha.

My brother didn't like this idea at first for us, but I asked him a basic question, and it changed his mind: who would you rather have for players to piece a team around for the next several years? Perkins and Rondo, or Amare and Rondo?

I guess we'll see what happens over the next week or two. Thoughts?

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2009, 07:32:04 PM »

Offline Actionjakson

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Interesting idea. IMO, Perk + Bill Walker does not land us the #2 pick. I would probably say that Perk, Walker, 2010 first could possibly get it done tho.

Amare on this team would be absolutely sick. Him and KG would be absoulte monsters down low together. We would have to find a starting guard however. Maybe steal Barbosa or Barnes in the trade? I dont think we would have enough money to sign a quality free agent.

Ray, Walker, and Scal for Amare and Barbosa works financially. And, i think that Ray's  contract and the #2 are big enough trading chips to get something done.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2009, 07:33:12 PM »

Offline Gomesfan

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TP for the well thought out post!

If it will happen, who knows?
I would be all for it if it did.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2009, 07:34:18 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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There has been all sorts of speculation and rumors about all sorts of different players and teams' draft picks. We have all acknowledged that smoke = fire, so it appears that something is in the works. Ray Allen has been a great player and a class act for the Celtics organization, but his good days left are numbered, and the most important part of his value for us is his expiring contract.

The three teams that seem to have come up the most in rumors are the Celtics, Grizzlies, and Suns. We all know the different rumors that have flown around.

Anyways, Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker have reportedly been dangled to Memphis for the #2 pick. This hasn't made sense to us the fan base, as it appears that we would trade the cornerstone of our defense for a young talent that won't help us for a long time. However, we were all baffled when we traded for Ray Allen on draft night, and the reason we were baffled is because the other shoe named KG had not yet dropped.

The other rumor that has been floated out there is Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo for Amare Stoudemire. This rumor started in Arizona and quickly floated its way east to the Celtics fanbase and media. We panicked at the idea of trading our valuable backcourt for Amare, and rightfully so. It is my belief that there have been discussions and that the Suns brought up Rajon Rondo's name, but that the Celtics labelled Rondo as off limits to them. However, it seems that Danny wouldn't give up, but would rather extend a potential counter offer.

I say all of that to lay the foundation for how I see draft night (and the days surrounding it) unfolding. Let's start with Boston and Memphis.

Boston trades Kendrick Perkins and Bill Walker for the #2 pick and filler contracts.

Looks pretty terrible by itself. It gives Memphis a young, cheap, defensive minded center that has experience winning, and a young, inexperienced, but talented and potential filled player in Bill Walker. It gives us a pick in what is viewed as a mediocre draft outside of the number 1 pick, and makes our front court apparently disappear.

However, what we don't realize is that Danny's intention is not to keep the draft pick, but to turn it around and combine the draft pick with Ray Allen's expiring contract for Amare Stoudemire. We get what is still a relatively young 20 and 10 player with much talent on both sides of the floor for an aging shooter and the #2 pick in the draft. This gives Phoenix exactly what it needs: cap relief and a young talent for rebuilding. I would imagine the Suns would draft Rubio to train behind Steve Nash, as I can see many similarities in the way that they are both able to run a team, and Nash's remaining good days are numbered.

What I just thought of as I was typing up this last part is also the idea of Phoenix potentially buying Ray Allen out of the last year of his contract, saving the Suns a little more money and allowing him to return to us for cheap to make a strong run at Banner 18. This is the only part of all of this that I am not so sure about, but find exciting just thinking about haha.

My brother didn't like this idea at first for us, but I asked him a basic question, and it changed his mind: who would you rather have for players to piece a team around for the next several years? Perkins and Rondo, or Amare and Rondo?

I guess we'll see what happens over the next week or two. Thoughts?
The Question I'm asking myself isn't who would you rather have for placers to piece a team around for the next several years but who would you rather have next year when our big 3 is getting older? Ray and Perk or Amare.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2009, 07:36:18 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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I don't like the idea of trading the two pick, if we get it. I'd rather take Harden to replace Ray, and still try to sucker the 14th away from Phoenix for Flynn or Teague.

Oh a dreamer's dream.

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #5 on: June 16, 2009, 07:42:56 PM »

Offline screwedupmaniac

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I don't like the idea of trading the two pick, if we get it. I'd rather take Harden to replace Ray, and still try to sucker the 14th away from Phoenix for Flynn or Teague.

Oh a dreamer's dream.

this is interesting, but probably ruins our chances of winning now as well as later...


The Question I'm asking myself isn't who would you rather have for placers to piece a team around for the next several years but who would you rather have next year when our big 3 is getting older? Ray and Perk or Amare.

Still, I'd rather have Amare over Perk...I love Perk, but I am pretty concerned about his shoulder. Is this going to plague him for years to come? Also, we're talking about moving an 8 and 8 player for a 20 and 8 player with freakish athletic ability...definitely something that has to be considered.

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2009, 07:44:05 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I don't like the idea of trading the two pick, if we get it. I'd rather take Harden to replace Ray, and still try to sucker the 14th away from Phoenix for Flynn or Teague.

Oh a dreamer's dream.
I completely agree with you but, I would even be happy with one of those two picks.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2009, 07:49:41 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I don't like the idea of trading the two pick, if we get it. I'd rather take Harden to replace Ray, and still try to sucker the 14th away from Phoenix for Flynn or Teague.

Oh a dreamer's dream.

this is interesting, but probably ruins our chances of winning now as well as later...


The Question I'm asking myself isn't who would you rather have for placers to piece a team around for the next several years but who would you rather have next year when our big 3 is getting older? Ray and Perk or Amare.

Still, I'd rather have Amare over Perk...I love Perk, but I am pretty concerned about his shoulder. Is this going to plague him for years to come? Also, we're talking about moving an 8 and 8 player for a 20 and 8 player with freakish athletic ability...definitely something that has to be considered.
I said Ray and Perk, not just Perk vs Amare which is a no brainer in Amare's favor as you were saying.
DKC:  Rockets
CB Draft: Memphis Grizz
Players: Klay Thompson, Jabari Parker, Aaron Gordon
Next 3 picks: 4.14, 4.15, 4.19

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2009, 07:55:51 PM »

Offline screwedupmaniac

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Ah, I overlooked Ray in there  :)

I see what you're saying. However, I still would do the trade...decent SG's are fairly common in the league, but quality big men aren't so easy to come by.

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2009, 07:56:04 PM »

Offline Lucky17

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I don't trade 2/5ths of our starting five--the one that started last season 27-2--for a year-long rental of Amare, who has the ability to opt out of his contract after 2009-10.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/knicks/archives/2009/05/amare_knicks_sh.html

I also prefer professional, hard-working, team-oriented players over stat-obsessed egoists.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 08:04:33 PM »

Offline lon3lytoaster

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I don't like the idea of trading the two pick, if we get it. I'd rather take Harden to replace Ray, and still try to sucker the 14th away from Phoenix for Flynn or Teague.

Oh a dreamer's dream.

this is interesting, but probably ruins our chances of winning now as well as later...


The Question I'm asking myself isn't who would you rather have for placers to piece a team around for the next several years but who would you rather have next year when our big 3 is getting older? Ray and Perk or Amare.

Still, I'd rather have Amare over Perk...I love Perk, but I am pretty concerned about his shoulder. Is this going to plague him for years to come? Also, we're talking about moving an 8 and 8 player for a 20 and 8 player with freakish athletic ability...definitely something that has to be considered.

I wouldn't say it ruins our chances completely. I love this team how it is now, but I think if we play our cards right and some shoes fall in the right direction for us we could come back as stacked as ever, with a bright future, as well. Losing Rajon and Perk would hurt for awhile, especially Rondo because he would certainly flourish with Phoenix, but if these offers are here, you gotta take them.  

Under the ideal scenario (Dream) we trade Perkins and Walker/Giddens for Marko Jaric and the second pick, with Giddens the trade works fine salary wise, with Walker your off by 70,000 dollars in salary which I think can be made up with an exception, or just throwing cash at the problem. Then you draft Harden, Evans is a huge stretch here and I just don't like Rubio.

Then hopefully, Phoenix will love us enough to send Amare, Barbosa, 14th pick our way for Rondo and Ray Allen. With that pick we take one of Flynn/Teague/Jennings if available.

So, issues for future PG, SG adressed. How about now? Well, under this scenario we still, of course have the MLE in which to hopefully lure Artest here. This may, or may not be a realistic scenario. A more realistic option for cover the PG spot, though.. Andre Miller. I;d offer him anywhere from a 2-3 year deal with the MLE. Boom starting PG locked up. Then we could always bring back Marbury, too.

Annnddd... We still have expiring contracts to trade in Tony Allen and Scalabrine. Roughly six million dollars in salary. Will we get an all-star guard to fill the spot? No, but certainly a cerified veteran can be had. I don't have anyone in particular in mind, but I'm sure there's someone out there who wants to give up a decent SG/PG for expirings.

Add someone like Antonio McDyesse, and then Grant Hill/Quinton Ross on top of that and I think we're set for another title run or two. Some say chemistry will be an issue, but then the same people need to remember they said the same thing when we pretty much added four new starters to the team and won a championship. (With Pierce out most of that season, you COULD argue five new starters)

Remember, the year before... Telfair was ahead of Rondo most of the season. Gerald Green started a lot at the three, Delonte at the SG, Ryan Gomes at the PF and Al Jefferson started at center most nights.

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2009, 08:39:06 PM »

Offline Thruthelookingglass

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I don't trade 2/5ths of our starting five--the one that started last season 27-2--for a year-long rental of Amare, who has the ability to opt out of his contract after 2009-10.

http://blogs.nypost.com/sports/knicks/archives/2009/05/amare_knicks_sh.html

I also prefer professional, hard-working, team-oriented players over stat-obsessed egoists.

You gave voice to my concern.  Perk is great value and locked in for several years at a very reasonable price.  And I think Perk sets a good example for the rest of the young guys, he's a leader.  Furthermore, he and Rondo are tight (Perk's in Rondo's wedding party), and I'm still thinking these guys are the foundation for the post-GAP years. 

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 08:56:45 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I'd want the 14 from Phoenix as well as Amare in return for Ray and the 2.

Also, we'd have to spend our full MLE on a starting SG most likely, and then our ability to fill out the rest of the needs on our roster (backup SF, backup C, backup PG) would be significantly lessened.

Now, if Phoenix sent Barbosa with Amare for Ray and the 2, then we wouldn't need the 14 and we'd be good at SG at least.  But I kinda doubt they trade both Amare and Barbosa for Ray and the 2.
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Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 09:02:41 PM »

Offline winsomme

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trading Ray, Perk and Walker for Amare...I think that is net loss for us.

kills our defense and takes the only shooter out of our starting line up.

Re: This is how I see draft night going down
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 09:14:20 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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trading Ray, Perk and Walker for Amare...I think that is net loss for us.

kills our defense and takes the only shooter out of our starting line up.

Hrm, well a lot would depend on 3 things

1) Amare remaining healthy
2) Amare picking up on the Celtics defensive schemes and committing himself to playing defense
3) Amare's added offense making up for the drop in defense we would inevitably have by trading away Perk to get him.

Also, we would have to either get Barbosa back through the trade or else sign a solid starting SG through free agency (Anthony Parker maybe).

Finally, come on: be fair, Pierce counts as a shooter, even if he isn't a Ray Allen kind of shooter.  Plus, though Ray was an amazing shooter throughout the regular season, he was horribly inconsistent when we needed him most this post-season, even though he did hit some clutch shots.

Also, my understanding is the both KG and Amare can hit midrange shots (KG much more than Amare though), so it's not like our team would be terrible shooting.  Whichever SG we picked up would surely have to be good at that (moving T. Allen into the starting lineup would not be acceptable).  Rondo's also slowly improving his jumpshot.  He actually hit a couple 3's this post-season.  Haha.
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