Author Topic: Chad Ford - " C's are shopping Ray Allen for a top 5 or 10 Draft Pick"  (Read 13724 times)

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Offline wiley

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"Depth is overated. If you're downgrading the starting unit of the C's you need to be getting an elite prospect or at least a better starter than Rasaul Butler....

Plus if Danny didn't want Posey last year, why would he want him now that the best valued year of his contract was used up in New Orleans? Makes no sense for us, NO jumps at it."


Danny knows he made a big mistake when he didn't sign posey and i'm sure posey regrets not taking a little less to have another proper chance to win it all. Also we will be getting posey with a 3 year deal now compared to the 4 he initially signed. He is experienced enough to complement out starters and still young enough for be a good influence for our future lineup.

Depth is not overrated. Out of all the considered elite team maybe outside of cleveland we had the weakest bench with unbalanced depth.

Lastly Rasual butler imo is a very good player, that has height at 6'7, can shoot the three consistantly, athletic and plays defense. He is not ray allen no doubt but is starting material imo on a good team(just like raja bell was with phoenix)


Depth is over rated. You need 1 backup wing, 1 backup big, and 1 backup guard for the most part in the playoffs. You need a variety of skill sets for various situations but your best players produce the majority of the wins.

Rasual Butler is a 3 point shooter and that is it. Roughly half of his shot attempts were from 3. He shoots a good percentage on those and a bad percentage on everything else. He only shot 43% from the field overall. He only shoots 78% from the line.

He is a very limited player. To trade the versatility of Ray Allen for two role players and a pick is crazy.

Also you are looking at Posey's contract completely wrong from a logical stand point. To trade for him now would be similar as giving him the four year deal and then him missing the whole season for some reason.

You still have the 3rd and 4th years which Danny didn't want to give, but you lost the best valued year's worth of production. So it is worse than signing him during last year's off season.

Trading Ray Allen should be done to get younger and/or bring in more talent overall to the team. Your proposed trade downgrades the starting unit severely to add a rookie and James Posey. We can and should get more out of Ray, by either having him play the year out or trading him for a better package.

Defense and 3-point shooting are nothing to sneeze at.  Agree he shouldn't/wouldn't be looked at as Ray's replacement.  There'd have to be someone more dynamic starting at the 2 since according to you Butler lacks wel-roundedness.  Also agree on getting a better pick than 21.  Disagree about the depth, you need the depth all season long at this point, then you can scrap the depth in the playoffs if you want to.

Offline Fafnir

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"Depth is overated. If you're downgrading the starting unit of the C's you need to be getting an elite prospect or at least a better starter than Rasaul Butler....

Plus if Danny didn't want Posey last year, why would he want him now that the best valued year of his contract was used up in New Orleans? Makes no sense for us, NO jumps at it."


Danny knows he made a big mistake when he didn't sign posey and i'm sure posey regrets not taking a little less to have another proper chance to win it all. Also we will be getting posey with a 3 year deal now compared to the 4 he initially signed. He is experienced enough to complement out starters and still young enough for be a good influence for our future lineup.

Depth is not overrated. Out of all the considered elite team maybe outside of cleveland we had the weakest bench with unbalanced depth.

Lastly Rasual butler imo is a very good player, that has height at 6'7, can shoot the three consistantly, athletic and plays defense. He is not ray allen no doubt but is starting material imo on a good team(just like raja bell was with phoenix)


Depth is over rated. You need 1 backup wing, 1 backup big, and 1 backup guard for the most part in the playoffs. You need a variety of skill sets for various situations but your best players produce the majority of the wins.

Rasual Butler is a 3 point shooter and that is it. Roughly half of his shot attempts were from 3. He shoots a good percentage on those and a bad percentage on everything else. He only shot 43% from the field overall. He only shoots 78% from the line.

He is a very limited player. To trade the versatility of Ray Allen for two role players and a pick is crazy.

Also you are looking at Posey's contract completely wrong from a logical stand point. To trade for him now would be similar as giving him the four year deal and then him missing the whole season for some reason.

You still have the 3rd and 4th years which Danny didn't want to give, but you lost the best valued year's worth of production. So it is worse than signing him during last year's off season.

Trading Ray Allen should be done to get younger and/or bring in more talent overall to the team. Your proposed trade downgrades the starting unit severely to add a rookie and James Posey. We can and should get more out of Ray, by either having him play the year out or trading him for a better package.

Defense and 3-point shooting are nothing to sneeze at.  Agree he shouldn't/wouldn't be looked at as Ray's replacement.  There'd have to be someone more dynamic starting at the 2 since according to you Butler lacks wel-roundedness.  Also agree on getting a better pick than 21.  Disagree about the depth, you need the depth all season long at this point, then you can scrap the depth in the playoffs if you want to.
Butler shoots 50% of his shots from behind the arc, doesn't get many assists, and has many more of his shots assisted than Ray. Also this last year was by far his best shooting year, I'd worry about his percentages falling back to earth.

Sufficient depth can be had by simply signing quality free agents or making smaller moves. Trading Ray to shore up the bench is a bad idea in my opinion. Trading him for talented youth is something you can make an argument for. Just trading him for two 30 year old players who are best suited for the bench would be a disaster. Just a bad trade idea.

Offline Tr1boy

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"Sufficient depth can be had by simply signing quality free agents or making smaller moves. Trading Ray to shore up the bench is a bad idea in my opinion. Trading him for talented youth is something you can make an argument for. Just trading him for two 30 year old players who are best suited for the bench would be a disaster. Just a bad trade idea."

You don't remember last year when we tried to sign guys like pietrius and posey, none of them came. You can't just try to get mediocre bench guys just because you need to fill a void (which danny had to do last year because of lack of funds). This year will ring to a same story in regards to free agency. In addition there is nobody really that in our lineup is useful for any other team in the league(outside of our starters). So in that logic the easiest starter to trade is R. Allen to fullfill our depth requirements.

Offline Fafnir

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"Sufficient depth can be had by simply signing quality free agents or making smaller moves. Trading Ray to shore up the bench is a bad idea in my opinion. Trading him for talented youth is something you can make an argument for. Just trading him for two 30 year old players who are best suited for the bench would be a disaster. Just a bad trade idea."

You don't remember last year when we tried to sign guys like pietrius and posey, none of them came. You can't just try to get mediocre bench guys just because you need to fill a void (which danny had to do last year because of lack of funds). This year will ring to a same story in regards to free agency. In addition there is nobody really that in our lineup is useful for any other team in the league(outside of our starters). So in that logic the easiest starter to trade is R. Allen to fullfill our depth requirements.

We never pursued Pietrus. We pursued Posey, opted not to give him a 4th year. Then we signed Tony Allen and Eddie House fairly quickly. Tony was supposed to be our 2/3 swing man, he failed to live up to that.

The problem with your logic is that the depth you seek is less important than the quality of the starters the depth supports. It is better to have an all-star or near all-start shooting guard than it is to have a marginal shooting guard and a decent bench player.

Offline RebusRankin

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I heard Butler and thought we were talking about Caron. I'd trade Ray for him.

Offline Fafnir

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I heard Butler and thought we were talking about Caron. I'd trade Ray for him.
LOL

Yeah I would too. He's younger and a quality player, I hope he can stay healthy.

Offline tcelt

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what would it take to get paul away from the hornets...i know rondo but who else and i would do that deal

Offline Fafnir

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what would it take to get paul away from the hornets...i know rondo but who else and i would do that deal
Compromising pictures of the owner is my guess.....

Offline wiley

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I heard Butler and thought we were talking about Caron. I'd trade Ray for him.
LOL

Yeah I would too. He's younger and a quality player, I hope he can stay healthy.

Unfortunately getting Caron Butler for Ray is LOL in our direction.