Another Kevin Martin idea... and just another idea

[paintitgreen]

If Sacramento is going to strip everything down and get as many young players playing as possible and have great cap flexibility and be horribly lousy next year and the year after, Boston is their best trading partner. Just MHO.

Sacramento doesn't want mediocre good talent like Hickson, Lowry, Landry, Chalmers or Hill. They want this year's top 4 pick and a top 3 the year after and the year after and they want to develop Thompson and Hawes and Diogu and Greene. And they want to move. Being the worst team in the league in a tiny market will get them to get Stern on the bandwagon to leave to Vegas.

That might be true. But Boston doesn't give them the 3rd or 4th pick. Boston gives them expiring deals and no more. And disregarding the young talent part of the equation, all those other teams can offer the exact same thing as us in terms of expiring deals and contract relief. So what we're saying (I'm saying) is that even if this scenario (Sacramento giving up Martin to get rid of contracts just to field a bad team, get high draft picks and leave) plays out, Boston is in no way "the best" trading partner, just one of several possible trading partners who can offer the exact same thing.

And what you're not addressing, again our lack of desirable young players aside, is that this trade hurts our payroll, cap and luxury situation a lot more than it hurts the other potential trade partners simply because we have more future payroll commitments for aging players than those other teams. So other teams might be more willing to make the trade because it's less crippling to them.

[nickagneta]

If Sacramento is going to strip everything down and get as many young players playing as possible and have great cap flexibility and be horribly lousy next year and the year after, Boston is their best trading partner. Just MHO.

Sacramento doesn't want mediocre good talent like Hickson, Lowry, Landry, Chalmers or Hill. They want this year's top 4 pick and a top 3 the year after and the year after and they want to develop Thompson and Hawes and Diogu and Greene. And they want to move. Being the worst team in the league in a tiny market will get them to get Stern on the bandwagon to leave to Vegas.

That might be true. But Boston doesn't give them the 3rd or 4th pick. Boston gives them expiring deals and no more. And disregarding the young talent part of the equation, all those other teams can offer the exact same thing as us in terms of expiring deals and contract relief. So what we're saying (I'm saying) is that even if this scenario (Sacramento giving up Martin to get rid of contracts just to field a bad team, get high draft picks and leave) plays out, Boston is in no way "the best" trading partner, just one of several possible trading partners who can offer the exact same thing.

And what you're not addressing, again our lack of desirable young players aside, is that this trade hurts our payroll, cap and luxury situation a lot more than it hurts the other potential trade partners simply because we have more future payroll commitments for aging players than those other teams. So other teams might be more willing to make the trade because it's less crippling to them.

If you go back to page two of this thread I already addressed how this trade would be able to work for the Celtics long term and still be able to  remain financially stable for years to come.

Also, I don't see how this deal is any less "crippling" for the other teams you suggested. Cleveland still needs to tie up LeBron long term, same thing with Wade in Miami and Yao in Houston. Tying those players up long term and taking on all this salary puts them over the cap and in the same place Boston is in. SA still has Duncan and Parker at big bucks for years to come and giving them $30 million in salary again puts them over the cap and in the same place Boston would be....offering MLE, LLE and vet min contracts.

[paintitgreen]

You are right, you did address our situation (and I largely adopted it when I said I'd do a deal subbing in Garcia for Udrih in a heartbeat despite the longterm financial implications).

As for the other teams, they just don't owe as much money in future years as we do, and they don't have to resign a key starter coming off a rookie contract next year to tack onto it. With an extension for Rondo at a reasonable $10 mil a year salary, we'd already be at $55 million for 2010-11 (for Perk, Rondo, Pierce, KG)

Cleveland, on the other hand, will only be at about $38 million WITH Lebron resigned to a longterm deal (factoring in a $2 million raise beyond what he could get on his player option for that year) and can chop off $4 million more by trading or not keeping West (whose contract per Roy is not guaranteed for that year and who would become superfluous with Mo, Martin, Udrih, Gibson and maybe Garcia in the backcourt). Houston will only be at $28 million with Yao's option. Chicago will only be at $35 million after exercising team options on Rose and Noah (and Rose doesn't have to be signed to an extension until after 2012). Miami will only be at $29 million with Wade signed to a longterm extension (again factoring in a $2 mil raise) and after exercising team options on Beasley and James Jones. Those teams just have much more room - $17 to $27 million more - to take on the contracts.

I apologize, I thought I had included all that future salary information in previous posts but it appears as though that part may have been eaten by the machinery of CelticsBlog (serves me right for writing such long-winded posts).

[nickagneta]

You are right, you did address our situation (and I largely adopted it when I said I'd do a deal subbing in Garcia for Udrih in a heartbeat despite the longterm financial implications).

As for the other teams, they just don't owe as much money in future years as we do, and they don't have to resign a key starter coming off a rookie contract next year to tack onto it. With an extension for Rondo at a reasonable $10 mil a year salary, we'd already be at $55 million for 2010-11 (for Perk, Rondo, Pierce, KG)

Cleveland, on the other hand, will only be at about $38 million WITH Lebron resigned to a longterm deal (factoring in a $2 million raise beyond what he could get on his player option for that year) and can chop off $4 million more by trading or not keeping West (whose contract per Roy is not guaranteed for that year and who would become superfluous with Mo, Martin, Udrih, Gibson and maybe Garcia in the backcourt). Houston will only be at $28 million with Yao's option. Chicago will only be at $35 million after exercising team options on Rose and Noah (and Rose doesn't have to be signed to an extension until after 2012). Miami will only be at $29 million with Wade signed to a longterm extension (again factoring in a $2 mil raise) and after exercising team options on Beasley and James Jones. Those teams just have much more room - $17 to $27 million more - to take on the contracts.

I apologize, I thought I had included all that future salary information in previous posts but it appears as though that part may have been eaten by the machinery of CelticsBlog (serves me right for writing such long-winded posts).

You see, you just proved what I mean. Yes those teams have salaries in the high twenties to low thirties but adding nearly $25-$30 million puts them over the cap and into the same restrictions as the Celtics would be into. Hence, it doesn't matter how much over the cap they are, the fact that they are restricts their ability to do deals to help their club every bit as much as the Celtics are restricted.

Also, as I have said elsewhere, Perk can be extended beyond his current contract without effecting what he is being paid through 2010 meaning his contract extension would be starting after Pierce expires.

Rondo is the gamble. If we offer him the QO and he doesn't sign elsewhere and plays for the QO then we have a relative bargain for Rondo at only $3 million for 2010-11 and then can extend him during that year to a max contract for seven years which no other team could beat in an offer. Therefore, our team payroll stays in the $70 million-$80 million per year area for many years while still be championship caliber or champions.