Congressman compares NBA age limit to slavery

[Moranis]

Personally, I like the age limit.  For every Lebron James, there are 10 Gerald Greens who are taking up roster space, and salary cap money that could be used on veterans who already know how to play, and could be putting a better product on the floor.

please name them.

[Brendan]

Kendrick Brown still got drafted high. GG might have been a superstar in college - he'd have been dunking on people and draining short three pointers, skipping class and banging coeds too.

[Roy Hobbs]

I am assuming the NBA has an anti-trust exemption, like the MLB, and if they're going to discriminate then I assume the government can say something about that

The NBA doesn't have an antitrust exemption.  However, that has little to do with this case.  The players could sue, but based upon the Maurice Clarett case, they would be likely to lose.  An employer and a union can enter into an agreement to restrict employment of non-union members.

[Moranis]

I was at the University of Cincinnati when Kenny Satterfield came (way before the age limit).  He was projected as a mid-20's draft pick before stepping foot on a college campus.  He thought a year of college would have moved him into the top ten.  He played ok as a freshman and decided to come back to school.  He had a very strong second year and went pro.  He was the 25th pick in the SECOND ROUND.  He played a couple of years making the NBA minimum before leaving the league all together.  Had he come out as a freshman, he would have made about 10 times the dollars and maybe would have even got a second contract. 

I mention this because you often hear the age limit is supposed to protect the players from themselves, but the reality is, it hurts players just as much if not more frequently than it helps them.  The NBA is clearly helped, but at the detriment to college and the players.  How that is deemed a good system I couldn't tell you.

Here's my thing though, this makes it sound like Kenny Satterfield deserved to earn millions of dollars.

It turns out Kenny Satterfield was not an NBA caliber player, at least a top notch NBA player. so I'm glad he didn't earn that big day (broadly speaking, I don't know anything about Kenny personally).

Players that go to college and it hurts their draft stock, know what I say to that: GOOD!  If they can't really cut it, I don't want to see them get paid  (from my merchandise purchases, my ticket purchases, etc.) more then they actually should.  Why should they get paid on potential, outside of sports, who gets paid on potential?  Some of you make it sound like an injustice that these guys would miss out on making money that they didn't rightfully earn.  When to me it seems more like they're missing out on a loophole to make more money then they actually deserve.


Edit - ah I see PosImpos beat me to the bunch with almost the exact same thoughts.  I guess I type slower, TP.

I certainly agree they should never have been drafted if they weren't good enough, but it certainly doesn't help or protect the player and frankly it just covers up the lazy scouting performed by NBA teams.  Better scouting = better drafting.

[bdm860]

Personally, I like the age limit.  For every Lebron James, there are 10 Gerald Greens who are taking up roster space, and salary cap money that could be used on veterans who already know how to play, and could be putting a better product on the floor.

please name them.

Gerald Green
Robert Swift
Sebastian Telfair
Dorell Wright
Ndudi Ebi
James Lang
Dajuan Wagner
Kwame Brown
Ousmane Cisse
Jonathan Bender
Leon Smith
Korleone Young

Of course that just covers LeBron. If I have to cover Dwight Howard too I might be in trouble. 

[crownsy]

Personally, I like the age limit.  For every Lebron James, there are 10 Gerald Greens who are taking up roster space, and salary cap money that could be used on veterans who already know how to play, and could be putting a better product on the floor.

please name them.

just think if you had to cover KG, kobe, perk (only need 5 for him hehe) and assorted others.

Gerald Green
Robert Swift
Sebastian Telfair
Dorell Wright
Ndudi Ebi
James Lang
Dajuan Wagner
Kwame Brown
Ousmane Cisse
Jonathan Bender
Leon Smith
Korleone Young

Of course that just covers LeBron. If I have to cover Dwight Howard too I might be in trouble. 

[Moranis]

For some perspective here is the complete list of the high school players that declared for the draft.

1974:
Moses Malone (Petersburg, Va.)
-- 22nd overall pick (3rd round); by Utah (ABA).

1975:
Darryl Dawkins (Evans, Orlando Fla.)
-- 5th overall pick (1st round); by Philadelphia.

Bill Willoughby (Morrow, Englewood, N.J.)
-- 19th overall pick (2nd round); by Atlanta.

1989:
Shawn Kemp (Concord, Elkhart, Ind.)
-- 17th overall pick (1st round); by Seattle.

1995:
Kevin Garnett (Farragut, Chicago, Ill.)
-- 5th overall pick (1st round); by Minnesota.

1996:
Kobe Bryant (Lower Merion, Ardmore, Pa.)
-- 13th overall pick (1st round); by Charlotte (then traded to L.A. Lakers).

Jermaine O'Neal (Eau Claire, Columbia, S.C.)
-- 17th overall pick (1st round); by Portland.

Taj McDavid (Palmetto, Williamston SC)
-- not selected (wasn't even considered a good DI prospect, eventually ended up playing DII ball)

1997:
Tracy McGrady (Mt. Zion Academy, Durham, N.C.)
-- 9th overall pick (1st round); by Toronto Raptors.

1998:
Al Harrington (St. Patrick's, Elizabeth, N.J.)
-- 25th overall pick (1st round); by Indiana.

Rashard Lewis (Elsik, Alief, Texas)
-- 32nd overall pick (2nd round); by Seattle.

Korleone Young (Hargrave Military Academy, Chatham, Va.)
-- 40th overall pick (2nd round); by Detroit. (one of the few guys who was projected in middle of round 1 that fell out of the first round and was out of the league quickly)

Ellis Richardson (Poly, Sun Valley, Calif.)
-- not selected (not even all state in high school, strange declaration on all fronts)

1999:
Jonathan Bender (Picayune, Miss.)
-- 5th overall pick (1st round); by Toronto.

Leon Smith (M.L. King, Chicago, Ill.)
-- 29th overall pick (1st round); by San Antonio.

2000:
Darius Miles (East St. Louis, Ill.)
-- 3rd overall pick (1st round); by L.A. Clippers.

DeShawn Stevenson (Washington, Easton, Calif.)
-- 23rd overall pick (1st round); by Utah.

2001:
Kwame Brown (Glynn Academy, Brunswick, Ga.)
-- 1st overall pick (1st round); by Washington.

Tyson Chandler (Dominguez, Compton, Calif.)
-- 2nd overall pick (1st round); by L.A. Clippers (traded to Chicago).

Eddy Curry (Thornwood, South Holland, Ill.)
-- 4th overall pick (1st round); by Chicago.

DeSagana Diop (Oak Hill, Mouth of Wilson, Calif.)
-- 8th overall pick (1st round); by Cleveland.

Ousmane Cisse (St. Jude Catholic, Montgomery, Ala.)
-- 47th overall pick (2nd round); by Denver.

Tony Key (Centennial, Compton, Calif.)
-- not selected (didn't qualify for college anyway, ended up in JUCO)

2002:
Amare Stoudemire (Cypress Creek, Orlando, Fla.)
-- 9th overall pick (1st round); by Phoenix.

DeAngelo Collins (Inglewood, Ca.)
-- not selected (he had a number of off-court issues, which may have kept him out of college anyway)

Lenny Cooke (North Regional Valley, Old Tappan, N. J.)
-- not selected (didn't even play his senior year of high school because he was too old)

2003:
LeBron James (St. Vincent-St. Mary, Akron, Oh.)
-- 1st Overall pick (1st round); by Cleveland

Travis Outlaw (Starkville, Ms.)
-- 23rd Overall pick (first round); by Portland

Ndudi Ebi (Westbury Christian, Houston, Tx.)
-- 26th Overall pick (first round); by Minnesota

Kendrick Perkins (Ozen, Beaumont, Tx.)
-- 27th Overall pick (first round); by Memphis

James Lang (Central Park Christian, Birmingham, Al.)
--48th Overall pick (second round); by New Orleans

Charlie Villanueva (Blair Academy, Blairstown, N.J.)
--not selected (he didn't hire an agent and enrolled at UCONN)

2004:
Dwight Howard (SW Atlanta Christian Academy, Atlanta, Ga.)
-- 1st Overall pick (first round); by Orlando

Shaun Livingston (Peoria Central, Peoria, Il.)
-- 4th Overall pick (first round); by Los Angeles Clippers

Robert Swift (Bakersfield, Ca.)
--12th Overall pick (first round); by Seattle

Sebastian Telfair (Lincoln, Brooklyn, N.Y.)
-- 13th Overall pick (first round); by Portland

Al Jefferson (Prentiss, Ms.)
--15th Overall pick (first round); by Boston

Josh Smith (Oak Hill Academy, Mouth of Wilson, Va.)
-- 17th Overall pick (first round); by Atlanta

J.R. Smith (St. Benedict's Prep, Newark, N.J.)
-- 18th Overall pick (first round); by New Orleans

Dorell Wright (South Kent Prep, South Kent, Ct.)
--19th Overall pick (first round); by Miami

Jackie Butler (McComb, Ms.)
--not selected

2005:
Martell Webster (Seattle Prep, Wa.)
--6th Overall pick (first round); by Portland

Gerald Green (Gulf Shores Academy, Houston, Tx.)
--18th Overall pick (first round); by Boston

C.J. Miles (Skyline, Dallas, Tx.)
--34th Overall pick (second round); by Utah

Ricky Sanchez (IMG Academy, Bradenton, Fl.)
--35th Overall pick (second round); by Portland

Monta Ellis (Lanier, Jackson, Ms.)
--40th Overall pick (second round); by Golden State

Louis Williams (South Gwinnett, Snellville, Ga.)
--45th Overall pick (second round); by Philadelphia

Andray Blatche (South Kent Prep, Ct.)
--49th Overall pick (second round); by Washington

Amir Johnson (Westchester, Los Angeles, Ca.)
--56th Overall pick (second round); by Detroit

[cordobes]

I certainly agree they should never have been drafted if they weren't good enough, but it certainly doesn't help or protect the player and frankly it just covers up the lazy scouting performed by NBA teams.  Better scouting = better drafting.

Who cares about helping or protecting the player? The age limit purpose is precisely to protect the teams from scouting mistakes, making it easier for them to detect those kind of mistakes. If you want to be a philanthropist and help young basketball players, do it with your own money.

[johnnyrondo]

Since the thread started based on this congressman's comparison to slavery and his sentiments about hurting "poor black youth," my question is what about the "poor black youth" that became first rounders b/c of the age restriction? Or for example, let's say Gerald Green isn't a first rounder...someone takes his spot right?  And it's not like the NBA is saying that instead of drafting 18 yr old "poor blacks" you must draft middle class white kids. And the age restrictions is the same for Euro and other foreign players. And again other people who are in need 19 yr olds and 20 yr olds make out for the better.

[nickagneta]

I agree with cordobes. This is not just a policy put into place to protect players or hurt players or help them, though it does all of those things. This rule is primarily in place to allow the team scouts and managers and owners from making mistakes and investing millions in potential. Owners want to maximize their investments just like any other businessman and if they can narrow down choosing from every stock available to down to just the best of the best, they will d it. This is no different.

At the age of 17, 18, 19, and 20 the rule is real simple. The more you see a player the more you can gauge their long term ability and potential. This rule allows for the teams to get more info on the players to see what they do when faced with similar talent. Let's face it, most 18 year old basketball prodigies ever get to play with and against equal talent.

I have no problem with screwing 18 year olds who don't deserve millions upon millions of dollars because they don't deserve it. People don't and should never get paid for potential. It's why I have such a huge problem with the NFL guaranteed salary slotting for first round picks that make them higher paid than most of the players on the team that have played for years.

If Gerald Green or Edondi Ebi or Sebastian Telfair would have not earned the money they did if they were forced to go to college a year, so be it. Too freaking bad. They never deserved the money they made. Maybe they would have gotten a wake up call in college and eventually earned that paycheck. Maybe not. Who cares?

All I know is that I go to about 6-10 games a year, paying for two seats, parking, some beers, food, transit on the MBTA, and maybe a shirt or program or something extra. I spend about $150-$250 every time I decide to attend a game. For anywhere between the $1200-$3000 I spend a year going to the game with a vast majority of that money being spent in and to get into the Garden, I want my team putting the absolute best players they can on that floor.
 
So too bad 18 year old scrubs that don't get overpaid for potential. I help to pay your salary and I'ld rather have someone who is older, more mature, and been scouted and looked at b my team for longer so that they know what exactly they are getting.

[Brendan]

For the players own good, you should probably have to turn 21 before the start of your rookie contract. The league should let teams make Larry Bird selections though: where a team drafts a really good guy ahead of time.

So anyone turning 18 by June 1 is eligible to be drafted. But you cannot sign a contract unless you would be 21 by June 1 of your rookie year. This would really incentivize the NBA to make sure the NCAA and minor leagues were doing a good job developing players.

[bobdelt]

For the players own good, you should probably have to turn 21 before the start of your rookie contract. The league should let teams make Larry Bird selections though: where a team drafts a really good guy ahead of time.

So anyone turning 18 by June 1 is eligible to be drafted. But you cannot sign a contract unless you would be 21 by June 1 of your rookie year. This would really incentivize the NBA to make sure the NCAA and minor leagues were doing a good job developing players.

Why 21? Bynum is only 21 and is an impact player, especially if he was never injured.

It's not about the players - it's about the teams. It's about getting the best possible talent in the league.

Also - it does help the players and their maturity. One year as an adult - not being pampered - might be benificial to them in the long run, see what real life is like - because real life is not high school or the nba.

[BballTim]

I certainly agree they should never have been drafted if they weren't good enough, but it certainly doesn't help or protect the player and frankly it just covers up the lazy scouting performed by NBA teams.  Better scouting = better drafting.

Who cares about helping or protecting the player? The age limit purpose is precisely to protect the teams from scouting mistakes, making it easier for them to detect those kind of mistakes. If you want to be a philanthropist and help young basketball players, do it with your own money.

  It's also to insure that the players drafted are NBA-ready. They don't like signing them to multi-year deals and having them take a few years to be ready to make a decent contribution.

[Brendan]

For the players own good, you should probably have to turn 21 before the start of your rookie contract. The league should let teams make Larry Bird selections though: where a team drafts a really good guy ahead of time.

So anyone turning 18 by June 1 is eligible to be drafted. But you cannot sign a contract unless you would be 21 by June 1 of your rookie year. This would really incentivize the NBA to make sure the NCAA and minor leagues were doing a good job developing players.

Why 21? Bynum is only 21 and is an impact player, especially if he was never injured.

It's not about the players - it's about the teams. It's about getting the best possible talent in the league.

Also - it does help the players and their maturity. One year as an adult - not being pampered - might be benificial to them in the long run, see what real life is like - because real life is not high school or the nba.

Sorry I wasn't clear - I was just picking the arbitrary age of 21 since that's what the gov't has done. I can't believe under age kids on the road with NBA teams are in a great position to make choices.

I'm fine with 19 too.

[wdleehi]

1) If the NBA and the players decide what age the players entering the league need to be, what is anyone complaining about.

2) If people are worried about these kids playing in a pro league in the US, they can spend their own money and make their own league and pay them. 



It is not the NBA responsibility to find a job for these basketball players if they do not want to go to college,, Europe or some other minor league.   But they do.  They give them the option to go to the NBDL, something I don't think any young player has taken advantage of. 





The NBA resposability is to put the best product on the floor.  That means bringing in better scouted players that will help teams. 




And finally, for all the HS players that were drafted, would they not still have been drafted if they were good a few years later? 


And teams drafting young, potential players that end up as super busts take money out of the hands of better players that only fault is they have a bigger portfolio for scouts to find fault. 




But in the end, for those who want young players playing in the US on a pro team, they need to stop blaming the NBA.  The NBA is a business and they have made a decision best for their league that their employees agree with.