Congressman compares NBA age limit to slavery

[johnnyrondo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/sports/basketball/05stern.html?_r=3&ref=basketball


This sounds pretty ridiculous imho. Sounds like pathetic pandering as well. Not many baseball 18 yr olds are on major league teams, if any. They're in the minors. Business wise it makes sense for Stern to not want 18 yr olds in the NBA. They should call the NBA age limit rule the "Gerald Green Prevention Rule."  Then again he was like 21 when he finished HS. 

[crownsy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/sports/basketball/05stern.html?_r=3&ref=basketball


This sounds pretty ridiculous imho. Sounds like pathetic pandering as well. Not many baseball 18 yr olds are on major league teams, if any. They're in the minors. Business wise it makes sense for Stern to not want 18 yr olds in the NBA. They should call the NBA age limit rule the "Gerald Green Prevention Rule."  Then again he was like 21 when he finished HS. 

It does make sense for the nba, and the guys analogy is quite extreme, but the practice is still quite crooked.

 it is denial of employment for the express purpose of trying to force these players to play for free (in theory anyway) at the NCAA level, for all intents and purposes a minor league business partner of the NBA.

The player assume tons of injury risk and risk to their draft status to play for free at a basketball vocational school that they have no intention of finishing for educational purposes while the NCAA cashes in and the NBA gets another year to look at its future draft picks.

 that's why i have zero problem with them going overseas till they are 19.

[johnnyrondo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/sports/basketball/05stern.html?_r=3&ref=basketball


This sounds pretty ridiculous imho. Sounds like pathetic pandering as well. Not many baseball 18 yr olds are on major league teams, if any. They're in the minors. Business wise it makes sense for Stern to not want 18 yr olds in the NBA. They should call the NBA age limit rule the "Gerald Green Prevention Rule."  Then again he was like 21 when he finished HS. 

It does make sense for the nba, and the guys analogy is quite extreme, but the practice is still quite crooked.

 it is denial of employment for the express purpose of trying to force these players to play for free (in theory anyway) at the NCAA level, for all intents and purposes a minor league business partner of the NBA.

The player assume tons of injury risk and risk to their draft status to play for free at a basketball vocational school that they have no intention of finishing for educational purposes while the NCAA cashes in and the NBA gets another year to look at its future draft picks.

 that's why i have zero problem with them going overseas till they are 19.

So overseas is equivalent to minor league baseball in a way. From the NBA perspective it does a disservice to have 18 yr old NBA players on NBA rosters. Noone's forcing anyone to go to college.

[crownsy]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/sports/basketball/05stern.html?_r=3&ref=basketball


This sounds pretty ridiculous imho. Sounds like pathetic pandering as well. Not many baseball 18 yr olds are on major league teams, if any. They're in the minors. Business wise it makes sense for Stern to not want 18 yr olds in the NBA. They should call the NBA age limit rule the "Gerald Green Prevention Rule."  Then again he was like 21 when he finished HS. 

It does make sense for the nba, and the guys analogy is quite extreme, but the practice is still quite crooked.

 it is denial of employment for the express purpose of trying to force these players to play for free (in theory anyway) at the NCAA level, for all intents and purposes a minor league business partner of the NBA.

The player assume tons of injury risk and risk to their draft status to play for free at a basketball vocational school that they have no intention of finishing for educational purposes while the NCAA cashes in and the NBA gets another year to look at its future draft picks.

 that's why i have zero problem with them going overseas till they are 19.

So overseas is equivalent to minor league baseball in a way. From the NBA perspective it does a disservice to have 18 yr old NBA players on NBA rosters. Noone's forcing anyone to go to college.

Sure the NBA is. Europe is only open for top level guys. If you don't go to college as a mid round/ 2nd round guy prospect, who on earth do you think is going to draft you after a year not playing basketball while others who went to college are impressing scouts?



Look it makes great business sense to do this "scratch your back I'll scratch yours" thing with the NCAA for both sides, its why stern is trying to make it two years of college pre-NBA.

The NBA gets a year of easy scouting and hype for the player, The NCAA gets tons of profit from the same hype. IT's a no-brainer from a business standpoint.

It still doesn't change the fact its a screw job for the kids. What if you get hurt on your free tour of the country's NCAA arena's?

It would be like if you wanted to apply for a job, but first you had to work for free for a year, and at the end of said year, they MAY offer you the position or not. No one would stand for that in corporate America. IT's a shady business practice.

[Donoghus]

Just a stupid anology to make in the first place. 

There are plenty of better analogies he could've made without going into slavery.

[Amonkey]

This is real slavery:

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

I actually couldn't find the country of the report that I was listening to on NPR.  They were talking about a country in Africa where slavery is still going strong.  People are born as servants from generations to generations and are forced to work.  Some kids may go to school, but most don't.  That is real slavery.  Now in the NBA, I do believe they have the right to protect their product.  You don't see a corporation hiring a kid fresh off high school just because he was the class president.

[nickagneta]

I can see both sides to the argument but have to admit I am against any public policy that restricts employment for any reason. That said, the NBA is a private entity and can create any rule they want regarding their hiring practice of minimum requirements for age.

Many companies require a person to have a degree in order to be hired, some even very advanced degrees. In essence, they are restricting based on age and knowledge level because there just aren't a whole lot of 19 year-olds out there with MBA's that would be able to do what is necessary in some companies.

I have no problem with the NBA age limit. If they wanted to push it even higher, I wouldn't have a problem. The NBA is requiring their employees who have the distinct skill set of playing professional basketball to be a certain age as they will be guaranteed certain minimum salaries and be put into situations on a personal level that could be quite harmful to an immature teenager with a boat load of cash.

They are protecting themselves and they are protecting the individual. The NFL has the same practice. I don't see a problem with either.

[Roy Hobbs]

Stern says he'd like NBA players to play competition after high school, to get them ready for the NBA.  A similar practice by the NFL was held to be legal in Federal court.

Requiring people to develop skills prior to entering the work force is a fairly common practice.  I was required to spend seven years in post-high school education and earn two degrees before I was allowed to sit for the Bar examination.  Should I sue, because I think I should have been eligible to practice law after college, or after my first year of law school?  Or that I should have immediately been allowed to enter law school, without having to go to college first?

Many, many occupations require pre-job training.  An age limit for the purpose of acquiring better skills isn't, to me, a bad thing, and it certainly isn't akin to slavery.

[Roy Hobbs]

I can see both sides to the argument but have to admit I am against any public policy that restricts employment for any reason.

I guarantee you don't mean "any".  Should anybody be allowed to hang out their own shingle, calling themselves a doctor and be allowed to give medical advice, without having gone to medical school?  If you said "no", then you absolutely do agree with at least one public policy that restricts employment.

TP for making a lot of the same arguments I did, 14 seconds apart.

[Fafnir]

I can see both sides to the argument but have to admit I am against any public policy that restricts employment for any reason.

I guarantee you don't mean "any".  Should anybody be allowed to hang out their own shingle, calling themselves a doctor and be allowed to give medical advice, without having gone to medical school?  If you said "no", then you absolutely do agree with at least one public policy that restricts employment.

TP for making a lot of the same arguments I did, 14 seconds apart.

TP to both you and Nick for stating my opinion on the matter. I think the NBA is better for an age limit. It allows them to make better decisions with their salary and picks and creates a better product on the court.

[indeedproceed]

The analogy is hyperbolic, but that doesn't mean the age rule is fair, its not. Its robbing kids of viable income because the NBA has no other solution to deal with kids talented enough to be drafted but not talented enough to play right away.

Major league baseball can do it, Hockey can do it, soccer can do it, and football has similar problems as basketball.

Kids shouldn't be forced to either

A) Work and produce for someone for no compensation at college (but, lets be honest...)

or

B) Be forced to uproot their lives halfway across the globe to be properly compensated for a service they provide, even though that same service is alive and strong in the US.

I think the age limit produces a better product for the consumers (us) and the owners, but hurts the players.

The owners should be forced to come up with a viable solution that also benefits the players if they so choose...you know, like say...an actual minor league system?

The other thing is that players should be able to declare for the draft, be drafted, then make their own choice about returning to school or not, like baseball and hockey can do.

So in summation, I don't think college should just be an afterthought, but it should be a choice, not a defacto minor league system for the NBA.

[johnnyrondo]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/05/sports/basketball/05stern.html?_r=3&ref=basketball


This sounds pretty ridiculous imho. Sounds like pathetic pandering as well. Not many baseball 18 yr olds are on major league teams, if any. They're in the minors. Business wise it makes sense for Stern to not want 18 yr olds in the NBA. They should call the NBA age limit rule the "Gerald Green Prevention Rule."  Then again he was like 21 when he finished HS. 

It does make sense for the nba, and the guys analogy is quite extreme, but the practice is still quite crooked.

 it is denial of employment for the express purpose of trying to force these players to play for free (in theory anyway) at the NCAA level, for all intents and purposes a minor league business partner of the NBA.

The player assume tons of injury risk and risk to their draft status to play for free at a basketball vocational school that they have no intention of finishing for educational purposes while the NCAA cashes in and the NBA gets another year to look at its future draft picks.

 that's why i have zero problem with them going overseas till they are 19.

So overseas is equivalent to minor league baseball in a way. From the NBA perspective it does a disservice to have 18 yr old NBA players on NBA rosters. Noone's forcing anyone to go to college.

Sure the NBA is. Europe is only open for top level guys. If you don't go to college as a mid round/ 2nd round guy prospect, who on earth do you think is going to draft you after a year not playing basketball while others who went to college are impressing scouts?



Look it makes great business sense to do this "scratch your back I'll scratch yours" thing with the NCAA for both sides, its why stern is trying to make it two years of college pre-NBA.

The NBA gets a year of easy scouting and hype for the player, The NCAA gets tons of profit from the same hype. IT's a no-brainer from a business standpoint.

It still doesn't change the fact its a screw job for the kids. What if you get hurt on your free tour of the country's NCAA arena's?

It would be like if you wanted to apply for a job, but first you had to work for free for a year, and at the end of said year, they MAY offer you the position or not. No one would stand for that in corporate America. IT's a shady business practice.

18 year olds are eligible to play and get paid in the NBA's minor leagues, the NBADL. In baseball 99.9% of 18 year olds are in the minors. This is not unheard of, and to compare it to slavery is pathetic political pandering at its worst.

[Roy Hobbs]

Kids shouldn't be forced to either

A) Work and produce for someone for no compensation at college (but, lets be honest...)

or

B) Be forced to uproot their lives halfway across the globe to be properly compensated for a service they provide, even though that same service is alive and strong in the US.

To be clear, those aren't the only options.  Kids can play a post-grad year at prep school, or in junior college.  Players can join the D-league or another minor league league, as well.  Or, of course, they can sit out a year. 

Also, this "no compensation" thing is silly to me.  How much is an NCAA scholarship worth?  $200,000 over four years, at a top college / university?  This isn't indentured servitude; I wish somebody had fully funded my education for my talents straight out of high school.

[Rondo2287]

Think about it though, they are getting compensation for going to schools.  They are getting free living(and education) while playing basketball.  Obtaining celebrity status on campuses. Getting with god knows how many women(or men depending on what they are into).   And we also know that at big schools these kids are getting special perks that we never hear about.  Oh and by the way they are getting the opportunity to improve their draft status, be coached by some of the best coaches in the country and the opportunity to experience one of the best experiences in every kids live, College.  

So lets not go crying for them cause they dont get paid for a year.  

[crownsy]

Kids shouldn't be forced to either

A) Work and produce for someone for no compensation at college (but, lets be honest...)

or

B) Be forced to uproot their lives halfway across the globe to be properly compensated for a service they provide, even though that same service is alive and strong in the US.

To be clear, those aren't the only options.  Kids can play a post-grad year at prep school, or in junior college.  Players can join the D-league or another minor league league, as well.  Or, of course, they can sit out a year. 

Also, this "no compensation" thing is silly to me.  How much is an NCAA scholarship worth?  $200,000 over four years, at a top college / university?  This isn't indentured servitude; I wish somebody had fully funded my education for my talents straight out of high school.

but did you have a 2 million dollar first year salary available without going to college? Thats the difference. We aren't talking about road scholars here. Were talking about professional athletes, many of whom have zero interest in putting the time into a college career they will be leaving in 12 months for more money than most grads earn in a lifetime.

It's about your net worth and goals. If your a kid who isn't going to be drafted, or has little shot, of course going to school for free is a great benefit. If i had the skills to get a scholarship playing ball at umass and knew that i had no future in pro ball,t hats an entirely different situation than a stud 18 year old who could be drafted into the league immediately.

 if your someone like Derrick Rose, who has no aspirations towards anything but your career in basketball, then the year of education is no benefit to you, it is simply a year where you can get hurt and drop your entry level pay at your career.