Author Topic: One more reason to dislike Lebron...  (Read 21251 times)

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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2009, 08:02:50 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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who cares.....opinions are like (u know what goes here), everyone has one.

when its all said and done, he might be right (except for russell)

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2009, 08:18:04 PM »

Offline LB3533

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Sorry guys, but if I have a choice of Shaq in his prime and Russell in his prime I am taking Shaq. Russell was of course amazing in his era, but if he had to defend Shaq he'd have a tough time. He gives up 3 inches and about 75 pounds to the man. You can't expect a kid in his twenties to be able to know how good Russell was either. He grew up watching Shaq and to a lesser extent Kareem. Russell is almost "fictional" to him.

As far as him putting himself in front of Bird, that is not an issue. I would expect the guy to. Just like PP said he was the best player.

There are many reasons to hate Lebron, but this wasn't one of them.
Not to derail the thread but...

What was Shaq's competition in his prime? A 34 year old Mutombo? A 35 year old Robinson? A tweener who was still too young in Duncan? Alonzo with health problems?

Shaq is great, but he also lucked out in that he reached his peak just as the league was suffering a drought of big men.  I mean, look at the centers that have made the all star team during shaq's prime and how unremarkable they are: Alonzo (in a season he player 13 games and scored 13ppg), Theo Ratliff, Ilgauskas, Dale Davis...

The center situation was so bad, that from 02 to about 07, Shaq made the all nba 1st, but the all nba 2nd team had no true center, only guys like Ben Wallace, Amare and Webber...


If I was starting a team from scratch, I would pick not only Russel over Shaq, Id also pick Wilt, Kareem and Hakeem over him.

excellent point. Hakeem owned shaq when they faced each other in the finals, totally owned him

The Rockets might have owned the Magic back in the 95 Finals but Shaq held his own against Olajuwon.

Shaq (4 Games) = 28 PPG, 12.5 RPG, 6.25 APG, 2.5 BPG, 59.45% shooting (44/74) [11 FGMPG/18.5 FGAPG]

Dream (4 Games) = 32.75 PPG, 11.5 RPG, 5.5 APG, 2.0 BPG, 2.0 SPG, 48.3% shooting (56/116) [14 FGMPG/29 FGAPG]

The case could be made that Shaq outperformed the Dream, overall, but not when it came to the big shots down the stretch.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2009, 06:27:40 AM »

Offline greenwise

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- He is arrogant
- He disrespected his own mother (remember last year's playoffs)
- He is loved by referees
- He has shown no class towards his current team when facing the prospect of becoming a Knick in 2010. He knows it, he hasn't hidden it and he will become one (by the way, another reason to hate him)
- He imitated KG's pre-game ritual with the powder
- He thinks he's MJ but he can barely be Kobe (as much as i hate Bryant, he is much better than this Cleveland crybaby)
- His relevant assists are as scarce as his displays of class acts
- Being a beast of nature and a trully gifted athlete doesn't make you the best talented player in the league

Those are some of the reasons why I dislike Bron. I hope we can eliminate Orlando tonight so we can beat his team once again

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2009, 08:32:13 AM »

Offline JBcat

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I want to go back to what someone said Lebron can only be compared to Larry if he wins at least 5 championships or at least plays in 5 of them.   In fairness to Lebron Bird played with Parish, McHale, DJ to name a few during this decade.  Lebron's best teammate to date is what Mo Williams or maybe big Z so it's not fair for Lebron if he never gets better teammates as much I hate to say it.   With that being said I agree it's way too early to put Lebron in Larry's class until Lebron plays out his prime first.

Also keep in mind Lebron is 24 and Larry was an old rookie about the same age entering the league so for me it's amazing what Lebron has done already in this league. 

I also think I would put Duncan and KG above Mchale and think hard about K Malone and Barkley above Mchale as well.  You can also throw out names Elvin Hayes and Bob Petit.

Even though I don't think he deserves mention for the top spot I loved watching Hakeem play.



Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2009, 10:00:35 AM »

Offline Celtics17

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As dominant as Lebron is physically I still think Larry was even more dominant mentally. I remember when a reporter once asked John Wooden who the quickest player mentally he had ever seen and he hedged a little but replied there was noone faster then Larry. In a sport of athletes with world class skills there was Larry dominating. When Lebron looks to control games by seeing ahead a few plays and controls the outcome of the game in the 3rd quarters then look out. Come to think of it, he's been sitting out a lot of 4th quarters this year anyway so who knows?

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2009, 11:07:18 AM »

Offline BrickJames

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- He is arrogant
- He disrespected his own mother (remember last year's playoffs)
- He is loved by referees
- He has shown no class towards his current team when facing the prospect of becoming a Knick in 2010. He knows it, he hasn't hidden it and he will become one (by the way, another reason to hate him)
- He imitated KG's pre-game ritual with the powder
- He thinks he's MJ but he can barely be Kobe (as much as i hate Bryant, he is much better than this Cleveland crybaby)
- His relevant assists are as scarce as his displays of class acts
- Being a beast of nature and a trully gifted athlete doesn't make you the best talented player in the league

Those are some of the reasons why I dislike Bron. I hope we can eliminate Orlando tonight so we can beat his team once again

TP.
God bless and good night!


Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2009, 11:32:48 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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I want to go back to what someone said Lebron can only be compared to Larry if he wins at least 5 championships or at least plays in 5 of them.   In fairness to Lebron Bird played with Parish, McHale, DJ to name a few during this decade.  Lebron's best teammate to date is what Mo Williams or maybe big Z so it's not fair for Lebron if he never gets better teammates as much I hate to say it.   With that being said I agree it's way too early to put Lebron in Larry's class until Lebron plays out his prime first.

Also keep in mind Lebron is 24 and Larry was an old rookie about the same age entering the league so for me it's amazing what Lebron has done already in this league. 

I also think I would put Duncan and KG above Mchale and think hard about K Malone and Barkley above Mchale as well.  You can also throw out names Elvin Hayes and Bob Petit.

Even though I don't think he deserves mention for the top spot I loved watching Hakeem play.




He also so had to go through some very good  teams to win his titles. He may have had the better team, but he had to go through some resistance, and he was not given the ability to play by his own rules nearly as much as Lebron is. I still maintain that Lebron wouldn't be nearly as effective if the refs called him like they do most players even other stars in the league.
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2009, 12:18:43 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I want to go back to what someone said Lebron can only be compared to Larry if he wins at least 5 championships or at least plays in 5 of them.   In fairness to Lebron Bird played with Parish, McHale, DJ to name a few during this decade.  Lebron's best teammate to date is what Mo Williams or maybe big Z so it's not fair for Lebron if he never gets better teammates as much I hate to say it.   With that being said I agree it's way too early to put Lebron in Larry's class until Lebron plays out his prime first.

Also keep in mind Lebron is 24 and Larry was an old rookie about the same age entering the league so for me it's amazing what Lebron has done already in this league. 

I also think I would put Duncan and KG above Mchale and think hard about K Malone and Barkley above Mchale as well.  You can also throw out names Elvin Hayes and Bob Petit.

Even though I don't think he deserves mention for the top spot I loved watching Hakeem play.




He also so had to go through some very good  teams to win his titles. He may have had the better team, but he had to go through some resistance, and he was not given the ability to play by his own rules nearly as much as Lebron is. I still maintain that Lebron wouldn't be nearly as effective if the refs called him like they do most players even other stars in the league.

True Bird had to go through some very tough teams along the way to his titles however take Bird away from those teams and you still have a solid team.   Take Lebron away regardless if you think he gets favorable calls or not and I think that team is lucky to make the playoffs.

 Back to what I was trying to say before though his body of work is too small to make that claim.   He is too young and you never know if he will pull a Shawn Kemp later in his career.  However if he stays on course and keep improving as much as I hate to say I think there is a good chance he will surpass Bird.   

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2009, 12:35:41 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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I want to go back to what someone said Lebron can only be compared to Larry if he wins at least 5 championships or at least plays in 5 of them.   In fairness to Lebron Bird played with Parish, McHale, DJ to name a few during this decade.  Lebron's best teammate to date is what Mo Williams or maybe big Z so it's not fair for Lebron if he never gets better teammates as much I hate to say it.   With that being said I agree it's way too early to put Lebron in Larry's class until Lebron plays out his prime first.

Also keep in mind Lebron is 24 and Larry was an old rookie about the same age entering the league so for me it's amazing what Lebron has done already in this league. 

I also think I would put Duncan and KG above Mchale and think hard about K Malone and Barkley above Mchale as well.  You can also throw out names Elvin Hayes and Bob Petit.

Even though I don't think he deserves mention for the top spot I loved watching Hakeem play.




The reason I brought up the calls or lack of on Lebron is it affects how he is defended. He drilling threes now because he cannot be smothered or else he will drive the lane. Now if he were not allowed the extra steps or tick tack fouls called, he would not be so dominate and therefore defenses could have more success in containing him. Now I do not attribute all of his success to gracious officiating, I do recognize that he does have a great God given talent and that he would still put up some great numbers. But he would not be able to dominate the way he does.

He also so had to go through some very good  teams to win his titles. He may have had the better team, but he had to go through some resistance, and he was not given the ability to play by his own rules nearly as much as Lebron is. I still maintain that Lebron wouldn't be nearly as effective if the refs called him like they do most players even other stars in the league.

True Bird had to go through some very tough teams along the way to his titles however take Bird away from those teams and you still have a solid team.   Take Lebron away regardless if you think he gets favorable calls or not and I think that team is lucky to make the playoffs.

 Back to what I was trying to say before though his body of work is too small to make that claim.   He is too young and you never know if he will pull a Shawn Kemp later in his career.  However if he stays on course and keep improving as much as I hate to say I think there is a good chance he will surpass Bird.  
Still don't believe in Joe.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2009, 01:12:33 PM »

Offline footey

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It's not just Larry Bird he disses. What about Dr. J, Elgin Baylor, Rick Barry, John Havlicek? Even Scotty Pippen.

I think that LeBron one day will be considered the greatest 3 to play the game, but he has yet to earn that label.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2009, 01:20:49 PM »

Offline housecall

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It is only one man's opinion...everyone has one.He is young and bold.Time will tell if he is correct.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2009, 01:30:17 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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Lebron James is better than Michael Jordan, He is not better than Larry IMO, but they are two different styles.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2009, 01:39:11 PM »

Offline greenwise

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Lebron James is better than Michael Jordan, He is not better than Larry IMO, but they are two different styles.

LeBron James is NOT better than MJ. Period.
He is not better than Larry Legend either, period

Maybe one day he'll be able to live to the comparison. Until then, he should not include himself in any list

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2009, 01:41:12 PM »

Offline Big Ticket

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And I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but when this topic was discussed on the ESPN NBA Board, I said - obviously Bird is way ahead in terms of "All NBA" type careers... but it came down to one game and I could have Bird at his best or LeBron at his best, it's not such an easy choice for me.

If you grew up a Celtics fan the decision would be easier for you.  Perhaps not an objective decision, but an easier one.

Yeah, I don't doubt that.  Well, maybe a little... even if I grew up a Celtics fan, I wouldn't have seen Larry Legend in person.

Well, that's the problem.  You can't assess Larry accurately, because you never saw him play.  In my opinion, he was a significantly better player than Lebron has shown to date.  If Larry had needed to average 30 ppg for his team to win, he would have done so.

Meh, I don't buy into that too much... I'm sure you've had opinions on Bill Russell in the past, but I doubt you saw him play.  I'm not trying to disrespect Larry, and I never said LeBron's had a better career or anything... I just think it's homerish to assume LeBron couldn't outplay Bird from time to time if the two were matched up in their primes.  I don't mean every time, or a majority of the time, but it would certainly be possible if he was on his game and motivated.  That's why I said it's not a slam dunk decision for me.


"It ain't about me.  It's about us."  - KG, interview with John Thompson, 2005 All Star Game.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2009, 02:35:48 PM »

Offline ram

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Wow, it's amazing what I'm reading in this thread.

I wonder how many people posting in this thread actually watched Russell play.

Shaq over the all time greatest winner ever? Not only was Russell so superior defensively but Russell was so wicked fast that he would have beat Shaq down the court time after time after time after time after time for easy dunks in transition. Russell had Olympic caliber running speed (Wilt, too, had wicked times in the 400 as did Russell).

Another consideration at PF should be Dave Cowens. Bob Ryan once wrote that if the Celtics had a true center and didn't have to play Cowens out of position, he would have put several PFs out of the league.

No one was better than Oscar Robertson and Jerry West also was incredibly special and should get consideration on any all time team.

But Shaq...you got to be kidding. LOL.