Author Topic: One more reason to dislike Lebron...  (Read 21260 times)

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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2009, 11:31:35 AM »

Offline Big Ticket

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And I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but when this topic was discussed on the ESPN NBA Board, I said - obviously Bird is way ahead in terms of "All NBA" type careers... but it came down to one game and I could have Bird at his best or LeBron at his best, it's not such an easy choice for me.

If you grew up a Celtics fan the decision would be easier for you.  Perhaps not an objective decision, but an easier one.

Yeah, I don't doubt that.  Well, maybe a little... even if I grew up a Celtics fan, I wouldn't have seen Larry Legend in person.


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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2009, 11:48:27 AM »

Offline angryguy77

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Hoops, I couldnt agree more. What made MJ and Larry great and separated them was their ability to crush their opponent. This is what separated Bill Russel and Wilt and why most people still consider Bill the superior player although very few question Wilt's superior athetic ability and I am not discounting Bill Russels athletic ability either.

The press is always saying that so and so is the best ever wether its Shaq, Kobe, MJ or ...? The thing is, Lebron has not reached his peak yet and won't for at least 3 or 4 more years, his athletic peak anyway. His basketball peak will be determined as "hoops" said on wether he learns to dominate and crush opponents with not only his skill but his will. I think he will.

I cant believe that Im actually going to defend this clown.

I heard the interview I believe Lebron thought DP was asking him what people he would surround himself with or something like that. I cant remember exactly, but I know at one point Lebron said "Since I have to be on the team..." He said that after he was going to name another player, but caught himself. I dont think he was asked to name the 5 greatest players to put on a team but rather who he would like to play with.
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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2009, 11:53:07 AM »

Online CelticsWhat35

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Hoops, I couldnt agree more. What made MJ and Larry great and separated them was their ability to crush their opponent. This is what separated Bill Russel and Wilt and why most people still consider Bill the superior player although very few question Wilt's superior athetic ability and I am not discounting Bill Russels athletic ability either.

The press is always saying that so and so is the best ever wether its Shaq, Kobe, MJ or ...? The thing is, Lebron has not reached his peak yet and won't for at least 3 or 4 more years, his athletic peak anyway. His basketball peak will be determined as "hoops" said on wether he learns to dominate and crush opponents with not only his skill but his will. I think he will.

I cant believe that Im actually going to defend this clown.

I heard the interview I believe Lebron thought DP was asking him what people he would surround himself with or something like that. I cant remember exactly, but I know at one point Lebron said "Since I have to be on the team..." He said that after he was going to name another player, but caught himself. I dont think he was asked to name the 5 greatest players to put on a team but rather who he would like to play with.

Okay, that clears some stuff up.  And in that case, he may also not just be saying who are the 5 best players, but the four other players he'd want to play with.  Maybe he thinks Duncan is better than Garnett, but he'd rather play with Garnett because of his intensity and athleticism.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2009, 11:55:16 AM »

Offline crownsy

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Hoops, I couldnt agree more. What made MJ and Larry great and separated them was their ability to crush their opponent. This is what separated Bill Russel and Wilt and why most people still consider Bill the superior player although very few question Wilt's superior athetic ability and I am not discounting Bill Russels athletic ability either.

The press is always saying that so and so is the best ever wether its Shaq, Kobe, MJ or ...? The thing is, Lebron has not reached his peak yet and won't for at least 3 or 4 more years, his athletic peak anyway. His basketball peak will be determined as "hoops" said on wether he learns to dominate and crush opponents with not only his skill but his will. I think he will.

I cant believe that Im actually going to defend this clown.

I heard the interview I believe Lebron thought DP was asking him what people he would surround himself with or something like that. I cant remember exactly, but I know at one point Lebron said "Since I have to be on the team..." He said that after he was going to name another player, but caught himself. I dont think he was asked to name the 5 greatest players to put on a team but rather who he would like to play with.

yea, same. if thats the case, thats much different. He didn't pick himself a bad team then :D
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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2009, 02:29:30 PM »

Offline dlpin

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Sorry guys, but if I have a choice of Shaq in his prime and Russell in his prime I am taking Shaq. Russell was of course amazing in his era, but if he had to defend Shaq he'd have a tough time. He gives up 3 inches and about 75 pounds to the man. You can't expect a kid in his twenties to be able to know how good Russell was either. He grew up watching Shaq and to a lesser extent Kareem. Russell is almost "fictional" to him.

As far as him putting himself in front of Bird, that is not an issue. I would expect the guy to. Just like PP said he was the best player.

There are many reasons to hate Lebron, but this wasn't one of them.
Not to derail the thread but...

What was Shaq's competition in his prime? A 34 year old Mutombo? A 35 year old Robinson? A tweener who was still too young in Duncan? Alonzo with health problems?

Shaq is great, but he also lucked out in that he reached his peak just as the league was suffering a drought of big men.  I mean, look at the centers that have made the all star team during shaq's prime and how unremarkable they are: Alonzo (in a season he player 13 games and scored 13ppg), Theo Ratliff, Ilgauskas, Dale Davis...

The center situation was so bad, that from 02 to about 07, Shaq made the all nba 1st, but the all nba 2nd team had no true center, only guys like Ben Wallace, Amare and Webber...


If I was starting a team from scratch, I would pick not only Russel over Shaq, Id also pick Wilt, Kareem and Hakeem over him.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #50 on: May 15, 2009, 02:32:26 PM »

Online hpantazo

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Sorry guys, but if I have a choice of Shaq in his prime and Russell in his prime I am taking Shaq. Russell was of course amazing in his era, but if he had to defend Shaq he'd have a tough time. He gives up 3 inches and about 75 pounds to the man. You can't expect a kid in his twenties to be able to know how good Russell was either. He grew up watching Shaq and to a lesser extent Kareem. Russell is almost "fictional" to him.

As far as him putting himself in front of Bird, that is not an issue. I would expect the guy to. Just like PP said he was the best player.

There are many reasons to hate Lebron, but this wasn't one of them.
Not to derail the thread but...

What was Shaq's competition in his prime? A 34 year old Mutombo? A 35 year old Robinson? A tweener who was still too young in Duncan? Alonzo with health problems?

Shaq is great, but he also lucked out in that he reached his peak just as the league was suffering a drought of big men.  I mean, look at the centers that have made the all star team during shaq's prime and how unremarkable they are: Alonzo (in a season he player 13 games and scored 13ppg), Theo Ratliff, Ilgauskas, Dale Davis...

The center situation was so bad, that from 02 to about 07, Shaq made the all nba 1st, but the all nba 2nd team had no true center, only guys like Ben Wallace, Amare and Webber...


If I was starting a team from scratch, I would pick not only Russel over Shaq, Id also pick Wilt, Kareem and Hakeem over him.

excellent point. Hakeem owned shaq when they faced each other in the finals, totally owned him

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #51 on: May 15, 2009, 04:19:31 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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And I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but when this topic was discussed on the ESPN NBA Board, I said - obviously Bird is way ahead in terms of "All NBA" type careers... but it came down to one game and I could have Bird at his best or LeBron at his best, it's not such an easy choice for me.

If you grew up a Celtics fan the decision would be easier for you.  Perhaps not an objective decision, but an easier one.

Yeah, I don't doubt that.  Well, maybe a little... even if I grew up a Celtics fan, I wouldn't have seen Larry Legend in person.

Well, that's the problem.  You can't assess Larry accurately, because you never saw him play.  In my opinion, he was a significantly better player than Lebron has shown to date.  If Larry had needed to average 30 ppg for his team to win, he would have done so.

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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #52 on: May 15, 2009, 04:39:19 PM »

Offline Jon

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You mean besides the fact that he does 'roids?

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #53 on: May 15, 2009, 04:59:28 PM »

Offline UGotRondod

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Guys, people have been telling him he's great since grade 2, what do you expect?

I totally agree Rebus.  I actually had a discussion about this the other day with another C's fan.  We were both disgusted at how much NBA players (and many professional atheletes in the big 4 sports for that matter) complain and whine about most calls that go against them or calls that are not made in their favor.  Unfortunately, they are just a product of their surroundings. 

Like Lebron, many atheletes have come up in an age where they are put up on a pedestal such that they believe that the rules don't apply to them and act as such.  If you think back to players from other eras (most notably 50s 60s 70s) they treated the game as a job and acted like professionals when at work, just like the rest of us do.  You don't see average joe's like you and me screaming at our co-workers and/or bosses everytime something happens that is not to our satisfaction in the workplace.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant or trolling, but I think it is a relevant topic that is worthy of some good discussion.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #54 on: May 15, 2009, 05:39:47 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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Sorry guys, but if I have a choice of Shaq in his prime and Russell in his prime I am taking Shaq. Russell was of course amazing in his era, but if he had to defend Shaq he'd have a tough time. He gives up 3 inches and about 75 pounds to the man.

But Russell gave up 3 inches to Wilt too, and he fared well against Wilt.  Granted not as much of a weight difference, but Wilt was a decatholon athlete, something Shaq could never be.  I wouldn't let size hold you back from taking Russell over Shaq.

Also, do you think they allow shaq to to what he does now back then?
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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #55 on: May 15, 2009, 05:45:34 PM »

Offline Jon

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Sorry guys, but if I have a choice of Shaq in his prime and Russell in his prime I am taking Shaq. Russell was of course amazing in his era, but if he had to defend Shaq he'd have a tough time. He gives up 3 inches and about 75 pounds to the man.

But Russell gave up 3 inches to Wilt too, and he fared well against Wilt.  Granted not as much of a weight difference, but Wilt was a decatholon athlete, something Shaq could never be.  I wouldn't let size hold you back from taking Russell over Shaq.

Also, do you think they allow shaq to to what he does now back then?

And do you think Russell would have been only 220-230 lbs if they had the training programs of today back then? 

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #56 on: May 15, 2009, 06:53:05 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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Bill guarded Wilt just fine and if you think that Shaq is that much stronger then Wilt was then I would advise you to read a little on Wilt's strength. There, of course, is a difference in strength and power and while I would say Shaq is more powerful then Wilt was I really doubt he was as strong! I read recently where Wilt bench pressed 440 pounds- at age 60. The reporter asked him if he was surprised that he was that strong and Wilt replied that he could do more and it would not be a problem. Try typing in "Wilt Chamberlain's strength" into Yahoo and read what you find. And if you are comparing Wilt and Shaq as far as athletic ability goes then it really is no contest at all-- Wilt wins hands down! Russ could guard Shaq and don't try to fool yourself into thinking he couldnt. Size and strength are not always positively correlated. How many fat guys have you seen who couldn't lift much.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #57 on: May 15, 2009, 07:00:46 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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I hope I dont get too much flak for this but I wonder what Lebron would do if we took Larry off of the 80's Celtics and replaced him with Lebron? Do we win more/less? I can think of only one player who could guard him and that would be Dennis Rodman and he was really too young in that time period. I loved Larry and you just dont find a guy like that who controls the game in so many different ways. That is what I think Rondo will ultimately do when teams have to be more concerned about him as a shooter/scorer.

Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2009, 07:09:54 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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I hope I dont get too much flak for this but I wonder what Lebron would do if we took Larry off of the 80's Celtics and replaced him with Lebron? Do we win more/less? I can think of only one player who could guard him and that would be Dennis Rodman and he was really too young in that time period. I loved Larry and you just dont find a guy like that who controls the game in so many different ways. That is what I think Rondo will ultimately do when teams have to be more concerned about him as a shooter/scorer.

I dont believe he's more effective back then. This is because i dont believe he's allowed to get away with as much traveling as he does now. Nor do I belive that he would get so many foul's called in his favor.

He has talent, but I believe that if he was called like he should be, he wouldn't be so good and could be contained.

Again so nobody misunderstands what i'm saying. He would be good w/o the refs help, but right now the way they officiate him you cant guard him. You give a player with that size and speed an extra advantage how ais anyone going to guard him? He's shooting the ball better so you have to lay off a little or he will blow by you and take 3 steps get the basket or get a touch foul called.
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Re: One more reason to dislike Lebron...
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2009, 07:32:53 PM »

Offline D Dub

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He disses Larry and Russell on his all-time team:

Quote
PG: Magic Johnson
SG: Michael Jordan
SF: LeBron James
PF: Kevin Garnett
C: Shaquille O'Neal (LeBron almost went Kareem Abdul-Jabbar)

Pretty bold, putting himself over three-time champion Larry Bird.


A little late to the conversation, but I just saw this.  WOW, who puts themselves on their own All-time list?  Here's mine:

C:  Hakeem
PF: Russell
SF: Larry
SG: Jordan
PG: Magic

I feel these 5 guys were the most dominant players ever to play their respective positions.